South Africa vs New Zealand

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Slept on it, jet-lag is the only thing NZ can hope caused that performance, otherwise they're goosed.

SA look incredibly impressive, which I don't really mind, I'd always prefer to meet a confident Boks side over a wounded one. 1 v 2 in the world facing in the pool stages must be a first? It'll be the second 1 v 2 game I attend this year which is a bit wild.

They've been here over a week I think... Were definitely in Clapham on the 19th so jet lag doesn't explain it tbh

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Probably a very good result for Ireland. Weight of expectation hugely reduced and we meet them without having shown our hand. Still a frighteningly impressive performance from SA so not necessarily all good news.

Yeah, mostly my thinking. There was never a chance two of SA, France and NZ don't look great and everyone could still show up so it doesn't change much. We'll almost certainly be going in to the game with 15 wins on the bounce and expecting to win, about as good a position you can be in facing the deepest squad in rugby on flying form.

They've been here over a week I think... Were definitely in Clapham on the 19th so jet lag doesn't explain it tbh

Yeah I tend to agree, only looking in any way fluid before halftime is a bad sign. I think jetlag after a week can still play after a week (you're losing most of your training week) but not to the extent we saw yesterday. SA did everything NZ don't want to see on a rugby pitch and they folded, France and Ireland are capable of playing similar games against them.

 

[mdaclarke]

I think England can handle Chile . . . right . . . right.

If Chile have an off day, AND England get a lot of help from the ref.

Then maybe, just maybe.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

So I think it's right that PSDT was the only Bok forward not subbed and even he was binned meaning no Bok forward played the full 80.

Has that ever happened before?

Rules are what they are, play to your strengths etc, but it's still a pretty ridiculous state of affairs. Simply not what I want to see and I found myself almost wishing that a couple of backs had gone down with minor knocks just to see what would have happened.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

So I think it's right that PSDT was the only Bok forward not subbed and even he was binned meaning no Bok forward played the full 80.

Has that ever happened before?

Rules are what they are, play to your strengths etc, but it's still a pretty ridiculous state of affairs. Simply not what I want to see and I found myself almost wishing that a couple of backs had gone down with minor knocks just to see what would have happened.

Meh, I have no issue with it. It's not like it's some cheat code; there's an enormous downside to it if it goes wrong. It's the ultimate high risk, high reward strategy. If they're willing to take that risk then absolutely fair play to them for reaping the reward.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Meh, I have no issue with it. It's not like it's some cheat code; there's an enormous downside to it if it goes wrong. It's the ultimate high risk, high reward strategy. If they're willing to take that risk then absolutely fair play to them for reaping the reward.

Agreed. They're quite entitled to do it and run the risk.

Still dislike it though - it's the rules I'm railing at. I still much prefer rugby as a team sport, not a squad one, where a big part of the game is wearing down / tiring out the opponent and then reaping the rewards as the game wears on. Four subs max, maybe 5.

I've never liked being able to replace more than half the starting team and last night was just an extreme example.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

The really cool thing is, as far as I can work out, they could have dealt with an injury in literally any position too, and it wouldn't have been the end of the world.

9 goes down, reinach comes in
10 goes down, faf moves to 10 (apparently he's been training there)
11/14 goes down, reinach comes in
12/13 goes down, Willemse comes to 12 and a winger goes to full back with reinach going to wing

Their versatility honestly is incredibly underrated

 

[saulan]

10 goes down, faf moves to 10 (apparently he's been training there)

The alternative here was Willemse goes flyhalf, KLA goes fullback and Reinach again goes wing. I think even if we had a second backline injury we would just chuck Kwagga on the wing.

We are lucky to come out of that with no injuries and go into the World Cup being able to pick our best (albeit without Lood, Pollard and Am). So far of those I really only think we are missing Pollard as the others have really stepped up to fill the gaps and with Moodie doing well at outside centre I feel every position has two very strong players covering it, except for flyhalf where we have a big drop-off.

I know we lost some attacking prowess without Willemse, but I felt we were a lot more solid defensively aerially. He contested well and did the rest of his role decently. Even after WLR retires from international rugby I think we will be well covered with Gelant and Willemse, and these two plus Libbok will have good chemistry from all playing at the Stormers together.

Kleyn has been a great player pick up for us and has grabbed every opportunity thrown his way.

 

[die_mole]

I actually think it's kind of unbelievable a team is playing this solidly defensively without Am. He's just so good but as you said everyone else is stepping up and filling in for that.

 

[Jer1cho]

Peaking at the right time. There is not one player in our team that seems off form. The same can be said for the top 5 arguably. Ireland are a team that know all too well you don't peak early. This might be the best WC ever. And the crap draw will add to that.

For the record. SA is a diverse country. The coloured people here are unique to all of the world. They are basically the fijians of Africa, without the size. Willemse, Arendse, Libbok, Kopbe... These players are a product of a very complicated past, but at the same time an amalgamation of what rugby evolution looks like in SA. We are a different beast now to days long past. The same premium steak, but with much better spicing.

 

[mdaclarke]

If Chile have an off day, AND England get a lot of help from the ref.

Then maybe, just maybe.

No longer sure if I was joking or being serious.

 

[miccloarch]

Hilarious result. Doesn't change that much imo. South Africa get some confidence and I suppose some people make them 3rd or 2nd favourites now. These are warm up games for a reason, they mean nothing when the tournament starts.

France are still my favourites despite the Ireland hype. Les Bleus are playing the long game.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Hilarious result. Doesn't change that much imo. South Africa get some confidence and I suppose some people make them 3rd or 2nd favourites now. These are warm up games for a reason, they mean nothing when the tournament starts.

France are still my favourites despite the Ireland hype. Les Bleus are playing the long game.

Hype

 

[die_mole]

Ntimack's knee is not playing the long game. I believe France can wan without him but he can change a game with a step and a sprint. Think it's 35/30 South Africa/Ireland vs Field now.

 

[miccloarch]

Ntimack is a big blow but that squad is still full of world class individuals who can play as a team under a coach who knows what he's doing. Any one of the 4 favourites can show up on the day of course.

 

[miccloarch]

Hype

Leinster's nickname

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Leinster's nickname

You should look up the definition, cuz you're not using it right!

 

[Zootalaws]

They've been here over a week I think... Were definitely in Clapham on the 19th so jet lag doesn't explain it tbh

No jet lag - SA is the same time zone as the UK, give or take an hour or daylight savings.

Lunchtime in London is 1pm Durban.

 

[Zootalaws]

and NZ don't look great

SA did everything NZ don't want to see on a rugby pitch and they folded, France and Ireland are capable of playing similar games against them.

We had one bad game. Have you seen our form this year? This isn't like England - we will bounce back. We're not playing **** rugby, we didn't become bad at rugby overnight - it was a bad match.

As soon as I saw who the ref was I knew it was going to be a penalty-fest.

Once we were two tries down it was always going to be a struggle and I think were shell-shocked and penalty-shy. Barret's red card is going to hurt us.

If you're looking for depth, we aren't short at any position.

Given our head-to-head results and seeing that Samoa just about handed you your hat, Ireland writing us off as 'don't look great' is fine with me.

Hubris may be your finest recent signing.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

So I think it's right that PSDT was the only Bok forward not subbed and even he was binned meaning no Bok forward played the full 80.

Has that ever happened before?

Rules are what they are, play to your strengths etc, but it's still a pretty ridiculous state of affairs. Simply not what I want to see and I found myself almost wishing that a couple of backs had gone down with minor knocks just to see what would have happened.

I don't love it either. I imagine it is partly a response to the regulations increasing the time the ball is in play. It protects the Boks from the obvious counter of playing at very high tempo to tire out their big units.

It all boils down to being able to sub more than half your starting XV. But you have that in sports like Basketball, American Football etc too, so even though I personally really don't like it in rugby I can't massively criticise the sport for it.