South Africa vs New Zealand

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

We had one bad game. Have you seen our form this year? This isn't like England - we will bounce back. We're not playing **** rugby, we didn't become bad at rugby overnight - it was a bad match.

As soon as I saw who the ref was I knew it was going to be a penalty-fest.

Once we were two tries down it was always going to be a struggle and I think were shell-shocked and penalty-shy. Barret's red card is going to hurt us.

If you're looking for depth, we aren't short at any position.

Given our head-to-head results, Ireland writing us off as 'don't look great' is fine with me. Hubris may be your finest signing.

Was beating EJ's Australia at home by 3 points not a bad match by AB standards?

I agree generally though. NZ looking better with Schmidt's influence presumably taking hold more and I do think the Boks had more incentive than NZ to go full tilt at this match given their respective groups. Plus it was only 14-0 when NZ went down to 14, wasn't it?

By the law of averages NZ should hit their QF with less war wounds than their opponent, so I wouldn't rule them out entirely. Especially if Schmidt can use his knowledge to poke at Irish weak points.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

We had one bad game. Have you seen our form this year? This isn't like England - we will bounce back. We're not playing **** rugby, we didn't become bad at rugby overnight - it was a bad match.

As soon as I saw who the ref was I knew it was going to be a penalty-fest.

Once we were two tries down it was always going to be a struggle and I think were shell-shocked and penalty-shy. Barret's red card is going to hurt us.

If you're looking for depth, we aren't short at any position.

Given our head-to-head results and seeing that Samoa just about handed you your hat, Ireland writing us off as 'don't look great' is fine with me.

Hubris may be your finest recent signing.

Haha, what? You've clipped part of a sentence out of context in a post where I was talking about SA and thought this was an appropriate response? I'm not writing anyone off, I don't think NZ are the biggest threat of the rest of the top 4 and a loss like that can be very hard to bounce back from. Sounds like you're pretty rocked though, I'd have been if we lost yesterday too to be fair.

You're going back over a decade to have a better head to head than us by the way.

 

[Zootalaws]

Was beating EJ's Australia at home by 3 points not a bad match by AB standards?

I agree generally though. NZ looking better with Schmidt's influence presumably taking hold more and I do think the Boks had more incentive than NZ to go full tilt at this match given their respective groups. Plus it was only 14-0 when NZ went down to 14, wasn't it?

By the law of averages NZ should hit their QF with less war wounds than their opponent, so I wouldn't rule them out entirely. Especially if Schmidt can use his knowledge to poke at Irish weak points.

It was a dead rubber - we'd won the RC, won the Bledisloe and there were no test places on the line. It wasn't the greatest game I've seen, but a win is a win. I guess with our record three points looks a bit shabby. It's been almost exactly a year since we last lost a match, to a very motivated Argentina - I cant even remember the situation, but do remember not minding all that much. It was the same losing to Ireland - after a hundred years of wins, you don't mind the odd upset.

Schmidt seems to be doing the biz as our attack coach. I'm not sure he will have that much inside info of benefit on Ireland or that it will matter that much. We've seen what they've been like through the 6N and summer series.

The biggest concern is Tyrel Lomax and Scott Barrett. Barrett will probably be fine as it was a two-yellows red, rather than a dangerous play red. Lomax had a nasty gash, hopefully he'll heal quickly.

A lot of local noise has determined it to be motivational, rather than a downer, going into the WC. Every player will be criticising their own performance and analysing where they let the team down.

I'm not a fan of ref blaming, but as soon as I saw it was Matthew Carley I knew we were in for a dour, stop-start game. As much as he's NZs nemesis, I would much rather have had Wayne Barnes. Carley and whoever that plank in the bunker was killed any momentum. I'm so over going back 20 phases to look for a potential infringement. It should be up to the ref and linesmen to ask for confirmation of something they saw. Over 60 elapsed minutes to play the first 40 because of TMO twatting about, is a farce.

And it's nice for SA to come away with something after a couple of years of losing to NZ They are looking really sharp and having Kolesi back and on form must be great for their prospects.

 

[saulan]

I'm so over going back 20 phases to look for a potential infringement. It should be up to the ref and linesmen to ask for confirmation of something they saw. Over 60 elapsed minutes to play the first 40 because of TMO twatting about, is a farce.

A bit intrigued by what you had in mind here specifically, given both the disallowed tries (for the Boks and All Blacks) were that phase or the one directly before it. Was this more referring to yellow cards?

 

[Zootalaws]

Haha, what? You've clipped part of a sentence out of context in a post where I was talking about SA and thought this was an appropriate response? I'm not writing anyone off, I don't think NZ are the biggest threat of the rest of the top 4 and a loss like that can be very hard to bounce back from. Sounds like you're pretty rocked though, I'd have been if we lost yesterday too to be fair.

I'm not upset by the loss. SA deserved it and we screwed the pooch on discipline. We'll bounce back just fine. You should acquaint yourself with our record - how many times have we lost two on the trot?

You're going back over a decade to have a better head to head than us by the way.

We are definitely your biggest threat. And no, you don't really figure. It's SA then Oz then England. You've always been a palate cleanser in the banquet of test matches. Five to thirty we've lost to you in over 100 years - both times at the end of a very long season and with a lot of team upsets - I'm not worried that you'll be doing it anytime soon.

You just focus on keeping your old blokes together long enough to make it out of the pool.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I'm not upset by the loss. SA deserved it and we screwed the pooch on discipline. We'll bounce back just fine. You should acquaint yourself with our record - how many times have we lost two on the trot?



We are definitely your biggest threat. And no, you don't really figure. It's SA then Oz then England. You've always been a palate cleanser in the banquet of test matches. Twice we've lost to you in over 100 years - both times at the end of a very long season and with a lot of team upsets - I'm not worried that you'll be doing it anytime soon.

You just focus on keeping your old blokes together long enough to make it out of the pool.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH *stops to breathe* HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA *takes a break, adds some Spanish flair* JAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJA

Here's a two for one for you, hope you enjoy your pheasant ye gombeen:





I hope you're our biggest threat

 

[Zootalaws]

A bit intrigued by what you had in mind here specifically, given both the disallowed tries (for the Boks and All Blacks) were that phase or the one directly before it. Was this more referring to yellow cards?

Just the general state of 'the bunker' and constant video reviews, not specifically this game. I've no problems with either decision.

I've no issue with them looking for a forward pass or infringement - if asked to review by the on-field team - but having the TMO chirp in the ref's ear that player x did something naughty many phases back and the try needs to be wiped in favour of a penalty 80 yards away is killing the game.

Just as we've seen with cricket, it will end up dumbing-down the ability of the umpire/ref to be an expert and specialist. The number of on-field cricket decisions that end up overturned now is becoming tiresome. May as well not bother with an umpire's call at all, just TMO every ball.

The ref used to be able to refer if he felt the need, now with the bunker system, the TMO is the primary decider and can overrule the on-field ref. IMO that's the wrong direction for the sport.

 

[Zootalaws]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH *stops to breathe* HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA *takes a break, adds some Spanish flair* JAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJA

Here's a two for one for you, hope you enjoy your pheasant ye gombeen:

Oh, you did pick up on the reference, then? Glad to see you made it through your paroxysm without signifiant brain damage - that we would notice.

It must be great to have those two under your belt. What is it now, 30 losses? It must be at least that.

I hope you're our biggest threat

Do you, now? You may come to wonder why it was you wished for such a thing.

You misunderstand the Kiwi rugby ethos. We don't mind losing to a decent team - it makes for a pleasant change. But losing to a tier two nation - the likes of Samoa, Japan or even someone like Namibia. imagine if we'd had a draw with the likes of Canada, say. That would really dent our national pride.

You have plenty of that sort of experience, care to share?

And at least you have a World Cup to look forwards to. I tell you, it's a great feeling being the world champions and some day, if you're lucky, you might be able to understand what it's like - when we tell you. If the third time was the charm, I'm not sure what the fourth time would be. The craic?

You know when you win the 6N against Scotland and Italy and the like, its way better than that.

 

[saulan]

Just the general state of 'the bunker' and constant video reviews, not specifically this game. I've no problems with either decision.

I've no issue with them looking for a forward pass or infringement - if asked to review by the on-field team - but having the TMO chirp in the ref's ear that player x did something naughty many phases back and the try needs to be wiped in favour of a penalty 80 yards away is killing the game.

Just as we've seen with cricket, it will end up dumbing-down the ability of the umpire/ref to be an expert and specialist. The number of on-field cricket decisions that end up overturned now is becoming tiresome. May as well not bother with an umpire's call at all, just TMO every ball.

The ref used to be able to refer if he felt the need, now with the bunker system, the TMO is the primary decider and can overrule the on-field ref. IMO that's the wrong direction for the sport.

Ah ok, I see what you mean. I have a different view of this though. The game is complex and with all the cameras and angles, plus social media, there is incredible incredible scrutiny and pressure on refs. Anything that can be done to support the ref make the right decision and avoid controversy I back. Seeing refs getting attacked for wrong decisions isn't getting a great pipeline of refs in development (and I think we have seen that across the board).

The bunker system and the TMO system now is meant to avoid any stoppages in play of the ref asking the team to have a look. They ask, the play continues and then if there was an issue they come back to it. It's a better system then go on, pause to ask things and then wait (thinking of the 2015 WC).

I also don't think we should be looking at the ref as the single voice to dictate the game. We need to look at it as a reffing team to ensure the right decision is made. I'd much rather be in a position where there are complaints about the game getting stretched out than having complaints about the Barnes 2007 forward pass, Bryce Lawrence 2011 or Joubert with Scotland in 2015. We forget about the timing complaints, the reffing complaints are etched into history in a bad way.

 

[saulan]

Oof, I see Foster's saying the Lomax cut is pretty bad and the stud actually also did a bit of cutting of the thigh muscle. World Rugby needs to look into regulating things here and get the sharp plastic studs out of the game.

 

[Zootalaws]

I'd rather a great spectacle with the odd mistake from the ref, than the turgid shite we had served up yesterday.

It gives people something to whine about when they wuz robbed.

Barnes robbed us, for sure, but we forgive him because he's turned out to be a great ref and you know it's going to be a fair shake under his direction.

The only thing that kept me watching yesterday was your bloody backs - how good are they right now? I've always got time for SA, even when you make us into mugs, you know it's going to be a proper test.

 

[Zootalaws]

Oof, I see Foster's saying the Lomax cut is pretty bad and the stud actually also did a bit of cutting of the thigh muscle. World Rugby needs to look into regulating things here and get the sharp plastic studs out of the game.

yeah, it's a worry.

We have strength in depth in the front row, but he's a standout prop and we'd like to keep him if we can.

Talking about front rows, it's nice to see Malcolm Marx in the starting lineup again. He's been my World 15 pick at hooker for years. Really rate him and thought he was destined to be a bench pick.

Tough old *******.

 

[saulan]

I'd rather a great spectacle with the odd mistake from the ref, than the turgid shite we had served up yesterday.

The only thing that kept me watching yesterday was your bloody backs - how good are they right now? I've always got time for SA, even when you make us into mugs, you know it's going to be a proper test.

I was in the stadium, so may have had more entertainment, but I felt like it was a pretty entertaining Match from an SA and third party viewing perspective.

Yeah, I mean our forwards fully enabled it, but our backs are clicking very well, and a lot of this is Libbok. It's even better when it's Libbok and WLR together, but there is a lot of attacking flair and vision. We have kicking problems, but we haven't looked so good at attacking rugby for a while, and we can switch out the entire backline (bar the flyhalf) like we did from the last weekend and it runs the same.

I also am very sure this is just a blip for the All Blacks. The All Blacks were very up for it in the home match and you saw immediately how we were constantly slipping tackles and nowhere in the rucks. This time it was us and the pressure just never stopped from the Boks. I expect a rematch to be very much like the second half of the previous game in NZ.

yeah, it's a worry.

We have strength in depth in the front row, but he's a standout prop and we'd like to keep him if we can.

Talking about front rows, it's nice to see Malcolm Marx in the starting lineup again. He's been my World 15 pick at hooker for years. Really rate him and thought he was destined to be a bench pick.

Tough old *******.

Yeah, he has really been great for you guys and it would be terrible for him to not be fully fit or miss anything in the World Cup.

Marx is great and has been for a while, but he will be on the bench again I'm sure. It's just how we are playing at the moment, a squad approach rather than a best xv approach. Playing the best player for the opponent or time in the game they are needed vs just picking what may be considered a best xv. Either way though he will get about 50% of the playing minutes in the World Cup.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Oh, you did pick up on the reference, then? Glad to see you made it through your paroxysm without signifiant brain damage - that we would notice.

It must be great to have those two under your belt. What is it now, 30 losses? It must be at least that.



Do you, now? You may come to wonder why it was you wished for such a thing.

You misunderstand the Kiwi rugby ethos. We don't mind losing to a decent team - it makes for a pleasant change. But losing to a tier two nation - the likes of Samoa, Japan or even someone like Namibia. imagine if we'd had a draw with the likes of Canada, say. That would really dent our national pride.

You have plenty of that sort of experience, care to share?

And at least you have a World Cup to look forwards to. I tell you, it's a great feeling being the world champions and some day, if you're lucky, you might be able to understand what it's like - when we tell you. If the third time was the charm, I'm not sure what the fourth time would be. The craic?

Just to reiterate, you picked this fight from a post where I spoke about South Africa and mentioned NZ in passing as one of the other top 4 teams.

You've got a bunch of facts wrong in your posts since and now you're bringing up games from the 1990s.

If you think you're better than us and France right now based on the history of the game, fine. If you think you're better than SA despite Friday, impressive.

If you were on a 12 game win streak that included wins over every single tier 1 team and had won consecutive games against all of them bar one*, I reckon you'd like where you're at too. That's Ireland going into this world cup and it's a far sight more relevant than losing to Namibia in 1991.

You misspelled significant when attempting to insult my intelligence by the way. Nice vocab though, it fits the times you're living in very well.

*even if consecutive wins over SA didn't really count because you had to go back to 2017 for the second most recent fixture... actually never mind, by your logic the longer ago a record was set the more relevant it is.

 

[die_mole]

We all know that nothing new ever happens in sport.

That being said this Ireland squad is soft as ten ply and I can see them falling short in the knockouts.

 

[Becca]

Oof, I see Foster's saying the Lomax cut is pretty bad and the stud actually also did a bit of cutting of the thigh muscle. World Rugby needs to look into regulating things here and get the sharp plastic studs out of the game.

I read that he had thirty stitches and surgery.
If these are new studs they're talking about that inflicted such damage, they need banning.

 

[nicolas78]

So Willemse high tackle wasn't upgraded to red then.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Make no mistake, Abs didn't give a s about this game. They will never play like this in the WC.

i dont think this is true...the AB's never want to lose and always give a **** about a game in the black jersey. Whats we saw the other day is in line with how we play, the Bokke just had a game plan to counter it. We try and play fast and loose, bombs and cross kicks inside our own half and despite it not really working very well over the last 4-5 years we've stuck at it. Barretts brain fart....he's knowns for doing shot like that...its just been 18months since he has...but under some pressure he reverted to form

We had one bad game. Have you seen our form this year? This isn't like England - we will bounce back. We're not playing **** rugby, we didn't become bad at rugby overnight - it was a bad match.

As soon as I saw who the ref was I knew it was going to be a penalty-fest.

Once we were two tries down it was always going to be a struggle and I think were shell-shocked and penalty-shy. Barret's red card is going to hurt us.

If you're looking for depth, we aren't short at any position.

Given our head-to-head results and seeing that Samoa just about handed you your hat, Ireland writing us off as 'don't look great' is fine with me.

Hubris may be your finest recent signing.

not sure you can post like you have been and talk about other peoples Hubris

i would say our form during the RC is the blip in how things have gone over the last 4-5 years...some would say the Bokke might have had their sights set on the RWC and not the RC and we came in thinking we were suddenly awesome again

for our attack from anywhere game plan to work we need other teams to give us space...but come the RWC everyone will be all about pressure

It must be great to have those two under your belt. What is it now, 30 losses? It must be at least that.

dude...do you really think results over the last 100 years actually outweigh the fact ireland have beaten the AB's 5 of the last 8 times....twice in our own back yard?

 

[Umaga's Witness]

All blacks have won 9 lost 5 since, and including, Sam whitelocks debut (not sure if he played all these games but it seems likely he has a positive win loss ratio. )Possibly retallick, cane, smith, and beauden have positive win loss ratios (all debuted in 2012 and You have to go back to 2012 before the record starts being in our favour, specifically we are 6-5 since the start of 2012. ). but none of the rest of our starting 23 have a positive win loss ratio) For sure the average win loss ratio across our starting 23 or across irelands starting 23 would show Ireland winning more than us.

@Kiwiwomble @Zootalaws

 

[Zootalaws]

i dont think this is true...the AB's never want to lose and always give a **** about a game in the black jersey. Whats we saw the other day is in line with how we play, the Bokke just had a game plan to counter it. We try and play fast and loose, bombs and cross kicks inside our own half and despite it not really working very well over the last 4-5 years we've stuck at it. Barretts brain fart....he's knowns for doing shot like that...its just been 18months since he has...but under some pressure he reverted to form


not sure you can post like you have been and talk about other peoples Hubris

i would say our form during the RC is the blip in how things have gone over the last 4-5 years...some would say the Bokke might have had their sights set on the RWC and not the RC and we came in thinking we were suddenly awesome again

for our attack from anywhere game plan to work we need other teams to give us space...but come the RWC everyone will be all about pressure


dude...do you really think results over the last 100 years actually outweigh the fact ireland have beaten the AB's 5 of the last 8 times....twice in our own back yard?

It's ****le

Some people take themselves far too seriously.

He's clearly one that likes the dishing, not the receiving

I've watched hundreds of tests in the last 60+ years but it's still a game. People forget that.