[2013 EOYT] England

Discussion in 'International Test Matches' started by Big Ewis, Sep 17, 2013.

  1. Patchey

    Patchey First XV

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    Wheres that from? Haven't seen anything on social media about it.
     
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  3. ratsapprentice

    ratsapprentice Hall of Fame

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    Foy... the same guy who leaked the other names.
     
  4. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    Not sure who Webber would be in for - both Hartley and Youngs have had injuries in the not too distant past, so they could have brought him in in place for a back or other forward, so that he's there in case they break.


    I don't mind Myler being there, hes a better "steady" flyhalf than Farrell is. Gutted that cipriani misses out, though.
     
  5. Crapspray

    Crapspray Bench Player

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    On the bright side, with Burns being dropped, that makes it a contest between Myler and Ford for the bench spot. Hopefully Ford will win, and then he can make a few cameos and a challenge for the starting berth.
     
  6. Mrs. Peter Quinn

    Mrs. Peter Quinn International

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    Get on with it, Stuart.

    Agree Crapsray, hadn't actually though of that

    Those fly-half stats yesterday suggest the need for a running fly-half and a kicking full-back : 10. Ford 15. Daly - any takers? Or Daly could be a winger, with Brown at full-back and Watson the other wing.
     
  7. Patchey

    Patchey First XV

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    Assuming all rumours are correct, here are my problems:

    Myler over Burns just stinks to me. Burns is clearly unsettled as Glos, unsure of his future and trying to be a leader in a team that is consistently on the back foot. His development is not going to be helped by spending the 6N period in that same environment having lost his England place. Even if he doesn't play a single 6N match involvement with England, in a more positive environment for him and where the England coaches can work with him is infinitely preferable to a depressing few months at Glos. He hasn't even been dropped for a fly-half who is a positive selection. Myler is another Farrell, solid, boring and very good at playing behind a dominant pack, something we cannot assume he will have for England.

    Burrell at 13 is mystifying. I think he has earnt a place in the squad but if the rumours of him being brought in to replace/cover for Tompkins are true then I really don't get it. What is it with playing guys out of position when we have players who player 13 week in and week out to try. Joseph should feel hard done by.

    Johnson is another fairly negative pick. As pointed out, won't get picked unless there are a raft of injuries but is filling up a spot that could be used to start grooming a younger guy for the future.

    No Daly is my biggest gripe. What does the guy have to do to get picked? Seeing as he was involed with the squad last years as injury cover its clear that Lancaster et al are aware of him. He's only got better since then and despite his age has more seasons of Premiership rugby than most of England's other young backs. Very odd.


    So while I am happy that Watson, Nowell, Webber etc have been picked I'm not really sure what to think considering the above. Also, as pointed out, this is the 'Six Nations Squad', not a whole new EPS. So there is still the potential for us to see Ashton on the wing, Goode on the bench and Barritt at thirteen.
     
  8. Aedaphon

    Aedaphon Bench Player

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    Well I'm a massive fan of Elliot Daly, but I'm fairly content to see him waiting in the wings for now. He's still only 21 and yes, it's a bit of a pisser that we don't have him available to the squad but he will get his time.

    He's been consistently good at Wasps for 2 seasons, but frankly, with Brown and Foden as solid fullback options, I'd rather deal with the pressing issues on the Wing than balls up a good thing. (And I know Foden's injured, but we were only ever going to make so many bold choices in one round - frankly, it could be a hell of a lot worse)
     
  9. Crapspray

    Crapspray Bench Player

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    Be careful what you wish for: Goode can kick. So if Lancaster wants a young, fast, talented, versatile, kicking fullback... he'll pick Goode anyway.

    Twelvetrees has been kicking for gloucester though. So he's probably first in line as backup.
     
  10. Patchey

    Patchey First XV

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    The thing I really like about Daly is his versatility. He is one if the few English players who really is a utility back. If Wasps had another fit fullback he'd probably have played a lot of 13 this season as well. Something like,

    21 Youngs/Care
    22 Ford
    23 Daly

    Would give us cover everywhere is Brown starting. Alas I think we're more likely to get Myler and Goode now...
     
  11. Mrs. Peter Quinn

    Mrs. Peter Quinn International

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    Yep, Daly is the most versatile out of Watson, Nowell, May and him. Putting aside the 15 option and looking at the likely squad - Daly would have been the best 13 of the lot.
     
  12. ragerancher

    ragerancher First XV

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    I don't think age should be a factor, imagine if Wales decided George North was too young? They discovered a class player at a very young age and it has helped them a lot. Whilst I'm not suggesting we have a North equivalent, some of these young players may be very good in the squad but are not being given a go in favour of people we KNOW are useless.
     
  13. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    It's not England's fault Burns has lost the plot.
    He's not the first 10 to play in a side going backwards. Facts are that his performances this season aren't worthy of an England spot. It's arguably Lancasters first showing of actually picking on form. If he's in the saxons he still gets time away from Gloucester and a game or two against other A sides, to see whether it's him, or Gloucester, that's the problem.
     
  14. Patchey

    Patchey First XV

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    Fair point. If he doesn't make the Saxons either then I dread to think what will happen to his form. I just wish that if he was going to be replaced it had been Cips not Myler, who is uninspiring to Farrel-esque levels. Its also galling that Lancaster seems to have suddenly decided to drop someone because of their form, but made exceptions for so many players before (and may continue to make exceptions for others in the current squad).
     
  15. ratsapprentice

    ratsapprentice Hall of Fame

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    England RBS 6 Nations squad (35)

    Forwards (18)

    David Attwood (Bath Rugby)
    Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers)
    Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)
    Matt Kvesic (Gloucester Rugby)
    Tom Johnson (Exeter Chiefs)
    Joe Launchbury (London Wasps)
    Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints)
    Joe Marler (Harlequins)
    Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby)
    Matt Mullan (London Wasps)
    Chris Robshaw (Harlequins)
    Ed Slater (Leicester Tigers)
    Henry Thomas (Sale Sharks)
    Billy Vunipola (Saracens)
    Mako Vunipola (Saracens)
    Rob Webber (Bath Rugby)
    Tom Wood (Northampton Saints)
    Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers)
    Backs (17)

    Chris Ashton (Saracens)
    Brad Barritt (Saracens)
    Mike Brown (Harlequins)
    Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints)
    Danny Care (Harlequins)
    Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints)
    Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby)
    Owen Farrell (Saracens)
    George Ford (Bath Rugby)
    Alex Goode (Saracens)
    Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby)
    Stephen Myler (Northampton Saints)
    Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs)
    Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby)
    Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby)
    Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens)
    Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)
    England Senior EPS (33)

    Forwards (17)

    David Attwood (Bath Rugby)
    Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers)
    Alex Corbisiero (Northampton Saints)
    Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers)
    Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)
    Matt Kvesic (Gloucester Rugby)
    Joe Launchbury (London Wasps)
    Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints)
    Joe Marler (Harlequins)
    Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby)
    Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers)
    Chris Robshaw (Harlequins)
    Billy Vunipola (Saracens)
    Mako Vunipola (Saracens)
    David Wilson (Bath Rugby)
    Tom Wood (Northampton Saints)
    Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers)
    Backs (16)

    Chris Ashton (Saracens)
    Brad Barritt (Saracens)
    Mike Brown (Harlequins)
    Freddie Burns (Gloucester Rugby)
    Danny Care (Harlequins)
    Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints)
    Owen Farrell (Saracens)
    George Ford (Bath Rugby)
    Ben Foden (Northampton Saints)
    Alex Goode (Saracens)
    Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby)
    Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers)
    Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby)
    Christian Wade (London Wasps)
    Marland Yarde (London Irish)
    Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)


    Anthony Watson has replaced Charlie Sharples in the Saxons.
    Freddie Burns will play in the two Saxons matches.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2014
  16. Patchey

    Patchey First XV

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    Dam, beat me to it!

    So there is actually only one change, Ford for Flood in the 'EPS' while the '6 Nation Squad' is full of changes, injury enforced and otherwise.


    Burns remains in the EPS but not in the 6 Nations Squad? So no Saxons for him?

    I swear we have the most complicated squad system possible.


    EDIT. Found the Saxons, Burns not in the squad but will play in the Wolfhounds game. Strettle dropped entirely.

    Forwards (17)Nathan Catt (Bath Rugby)
    Calum Clark (Northampton Saints)
    Will Collier (Harlequins)
    Sam Dickinson (Northampton Saints)
    Dave Ewers (Exeter Chiefs)
    Will Fraser (Saracens)
    James Haskell (London Wasps)
    Tom Johnson (Exeter Chiefs)
    Graham Kitchener (Leicester Tigers)
    George Kruis (Saracens)
    Matt Mullan (London Wasps)
    David Paice (London Irish)
    George Robson (Harlequins)
    Ed Slater (Leicester Tigers)
    Henry Thomas (Sale Sharks)
    Luke Wallace (Harlequins)
    Rob Webber (Bath Rugby)
    Backs (15)Anthony Allen (Leicester Tigers)
    Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints)
    Elliot Daly (London Wasps)
    Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby)
    Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby)
    Ugo Monye (Harlequins)
    Stephen Myler (Northampton Saints)
    Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs)
    Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs)
    Joe Simpson (London Wasps)
    Mathew Tait (Leicester Tigers)
    Joel Tomkins (Saracens)
    Henry Trinder (Gloucester Rugby)
    Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby)
    Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens)
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2014
  17. ratsapprentice

    ratsapprentice Hall of Fame

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  18. michaelbolton

    michaelbolton Academy Player

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    Anyone know why we need 4 scrumhalves?? And why there isnt a 13 in the Six Nations squad but 4 in saxons..
     
  19. Crapspray

    Crapspray Bench Player

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    Cheers rats.
     
  20. ratsapprentice

    ratsapprentice Hall of Fame

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    Pretty sure they don't intend to play Youngs due to his abysmal form.
    But they don't want to drop him (which would mean they can't bring him to NZ) and he's not injured.
     
  21. Patchey

    Patchey First XV

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