[2013 EOYT] England

Patchey · Jan 9, 2014

ratsapprentice said:
Burns has been dropped for Myler.

Wheres that from? Haven't seen anything on social media about it.

ratsapprentice · Jan 9, 2014

Foy... the same guy who leaked the other names.

TRF_Olyy · Jan 9, 2014

Not sure who Webber would be in for - both Hartley and Youngs have had injuries in the not too distant past, so they could have brought him in in place for a back or other forward, so that he's there in case they break.

I don't mind Myler being there, hes a better "steady" flyhalf than Farrell is. Gutted that cipriani misses out, though.

Crapspray · Jan 9, 2014

On the bright side, with Burns being dropped, that makes it a contest between Myler and Ford for the bench spot. Hopefully Ford will win, and then he can make a few cameos and a challenge for the starting berth.

Mrs. Peter Quinn · Jan 9, 2014

Get on with it, Stuart.

Agree Crapsray, hadn't actually though of that

Those fly-half stats yesterday suggest the need for a running fly-half and a kicking full-back : 10. Ford 15. Daly - any takers? Or Daly could be a winger, with Brown at full-back and Watson the other wing.

Patchey · Jan 9, 2014

Assuming all rumours are correct, here are my problems:

Myler over Burns just stinks to me. Burns is clearly unsettled as Glos, unsure of his future and trying to be a leader in a team that is consistently on the back foot. His development is not going to be helped by spending the 6N period in that same environment having lost his England place. Even if he doesn't play a single 6N match involvement with England, in a more positive environment for him and where the England coaches can work with him is infinitely preferable to a depressing few months at Glos. He hasn't even been dropped for a fly-half who is a positive selection. Myler is another Farrell, solid, boring and very good at playing behind a dominant pack, something we cannot assume he will have for England.

Burrell at 13 is mystifying. I think he has earnt a place in the squad but if the rumours of him being brought in to replace/cover for Tompkins are true then I really don't get it. What is it with playing guys out of position when we have players who player 13 week in and week out to try. Joseph should feel hard done by.

Johnson is another fairly negative pick. As pointed out, won't get picked unless there are a raft of injuries but is filling up a spot that could be used to start grooming a younger guy for the future.

No Daly is my biggest gripe. What does the guy have to do to get picked? Seeing as he was involed with the squad last years as injury cover its clear that Lancaster et al are aware of him. He's only got better since then and despite his age has more seasons of Premiership rugby than most of England's other young backs. Very odd.

So while I am happy that Watson, Nowell, Webber etc have been picked I'm not really sure what to think considering the above. Also, as pointed out, this is the 'Six Nations Squad', not a whole new EPS. So there is still the potential for us to see Ashton on the wing, Goode on the bench and Barritt at thirteen.

Aedaphon · Jan 9, 2014

Well I'm a massive fan of Elliot Daly, but I'm fairly content to see him waiting in the wings for now. He's still only 21 and yes, it's a bit of a pisser that we don't have him available to the squad but he will get his time.

He's been consistently good at Wasps for 2 seasons, but frankly, with Brown and Foden as solid fullback options, I'd rather deal with the pressing issues on the Wing than balls up a good thing. (And I know Foden's injured, but we were only ever going to make so many bold choices in one round - frankly, it could be a hell of a lot worse)

Crapspray · Jan 9, 2014

HenryChinaski said:
Those fly-half stats yesterday suggest the need for a running fly-half and a kicking full-back

Be careful what you wish for: Goode can kick. So if Lancaster wants a young, fast, talented, versatile, kicking fullback... he'll pick Goode anyway.

Twelvetrees has been kicking for gloucester though. So he's probably first in line as backup.

Patchey · Jan 9, 2014

Aedaphon said:
Well I'm a massive fan of Elliot Daly, but I'm fairly content to see him waiting in the wings for now. He's still only 21 and yes, it's a bit of a pisser that we don't have him available to the squad but he will get his time.

He's been consistently good at Wasps for 2 seasons, but frankly, with Brown and Foden as solid fullback options, I'd rather deal with the pressing issues on the Wing than balls up a good thing. (And I know Foden's injured, but we were only ever going to make so many bold choices in one round - frankly, it could be a hell of a lot worse)

The thing I really like about Daly is his versatility. He is one if the few English players who really is a utility back. If Wasps had another fit fullback he'd probably have played a lot of 13 this season as well. Something like,

21 Youngs/Care
22 Ford
23 Daly

Would give us cover everywhere is Brown starting. Alas I think we're more likely to get Myler and Goode now...

Mrs. Peter Quinn · Jan 9, 2014

Yep, Daly is the most versatile out of Watson, Nowell, May and him. Putting aside the 15 option and looking at the likely squad - Daly would have been the best 13 of the lot.

Ragey Erasmus · Jan 9, 2014

I don't think age should be a factor, imagine if Wales decided George North was too young? They discovered a class player at a very young age and it has helped them a lot. Whilst I'm not suggesting we have a North equivalent, some of these young players may be very good in the squad but are not being given a go in favour of people we KNOW are useless.

TRF_Olyy · Jan 9, 2014

It's not England's fault Burns has lost the plot.
He's not the first 10 to play in a side going backwards. Facts are that his performances this season aren't worthy of an England spot. It's arguably Lancasters first showing of actually picking on form. If he's in the saxons he still gets time away from Gloucester and a game or two against other A sides, to see whether it's him, or Gloucester, that's the problem.

Patchey · Jan 9, 2014

TRF_Olyy said:
It's not England's fault Burns has lost the plot.
He's not the first 10 to play in a side going backwards. Facts are that his performances this season aren't worthy of an England spot. It's arguably Lancasters first showing of actually picking on form. If he's in the saxons he still gets time away from Gloucester and a game or two against other A sides, to see whether it's him, or Gloucester, that's the problem.

Fair point. If he doesn't make the Saxons either then I dread to think what will happen to his form. I just wish that if he was going to be replaced it had been Cips not Myler, who is uninspiring to Farrel-esque levels. Its also galling that Lancaster seems to have suddenly decided to drop someone because of their form, but made exceptions for so many players before (and may continue to make exceptions for others in the current squad).

ratsapprentice · Jan 9, 2014

Patchey · Jan 9, 2014

Dam, beat me to it!

So there is actually only one change, Ford for Flood in the 'EPS' while the '6 Nation Squad' is full of changes, injury enforced and otherwise.

Burns remains in the EPS but not in the 6 Nations Squad? So no Saxons for him?

I swear we have the most complicated squad system possible.

EDIT. Found the Saxons, Burns not in the squad but will play in the Wolfhounds game. Strettle dropped entirely.

Forwards (17)Nathan Catt (Bath Rugby)
Calum Clark (Northampton Saints)
Will Collier (Harlequins)
Sam Dickinson (Northampton Saints)
Dave Ewers (Exeter Chiefs)
Will Fraser (Saracens)
James Haskell (London Wasps)
Tom Johnson (Exeter Chiefs)
Graham Kitchener (Leicester Tigers)
George Kruis (Saracens)
Matt Mullan (London Wasps)
David Paice (London Irish)
George Robson (Harlequins)
Ed Slater (Leicester Tigers)
Henry Thomas (Sale Sharks)
Luke Wallace (Harlequins)
Rob Webber (Bath Rugby)Backs (15)Anthony Allen (Leicester Tigers)
Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints)
Elliot Daly (London Wasps)
Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby)
Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby)
Ugo Monye (Harlequins)
Stephen Myler (Northampton Saints)
Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs)
Joe Simpson (London Wasps)
Mathew Tait (Leicester Tigers)
Joel Tomkins (Saracens)
Henry Trinder (Gloucester Rugby)
Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby)
Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens)

ratsapprentice · Jan 9, 2014

Press conference:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39paq6Y35M4

michaelbolton · Jan 9, 2014

Anyone know why we need 4 scrumhalves?? And why there isnt a 13 in the Six Nations squad but 4 in saxons..

Crapspray · Jan 9, 2014

Cheers rats.

ratsapprentice · Jan 9, 2014

Pretty sure they don't intend to play Youngs due to his abysmal form.
But they don't want to drop him (which would mean they can't bring him to NZ) and he's not injured.

Patchey · Jan 9, 2014

View attachment 2643
Because the England coaching staff all look like this. Thats why.

[2013 EOYT] England

First XV

Hall of Fame

English Arrogance

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International

First XV

Bench Player

Bench Player

First XV

International

Hall of Fame

English Arrogance

First XV

Hall of Fame

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Academy Player

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