2014 European Nations Cup Division 1: Round Four. 08/03/14

[LittleGuy]

Fourth round match ups are up so we can discuss them at the closure of the third round, I'll add the table and talking points later.


1st. Georgia 33 points (ahead on points differential)
2nd. Romania 33 points
3rd. Russia 18 points
4th. Portugal 11 points
5th. Spain 10 points
6th. Belgium 6 points

 

[mihneadds]

Romania and Georgia will crush again their oposition. Russia will win quite hard against Portugal. However the portuguese squad may cause te upset of the round. At the end of this campaign i see Belgium relegated .

 

[djwizard84]

I would really like to see that upset in the Russia Portugal game and let the whole suspense for the last round.

Georgia and Rumania will have as well a big battle! In any scenario to be Europe 1 will be a great honor. First of all to have the change to play against All Blacks and the greatest opportunity to get that precious 3rd spot at the group stage if the win against Tonga and Africa 1... meaning they could get a direct spot for RWC19.
If I'm right, Georgia has a 1-1 record and Rumania 1 win against Tonga, so there are big chances for it!!!

 

[mihneadds]

Yeah. I was at the stadium when Romania beat Tonga. Either way , for both european teams there is a chance for at least one victory. The Europe 1 , despite the fact that will suffer a loss by a big margin agains NZ , could do a 2 victory surprise (the best performance ever at a RWC for either Romania or Georgia ). I think even the tier 1 Nations will look forward for the last round. By the way... is the Antim cup still awarded ?

 

[Toko_11]

is the Antim cup still awarded ?

Yes of course!

its 7-5 in favor of Georgia, and if you take a look at the history of it you'll realize how close and tense the rivalry has been between the Lelos and The Oaks

it was 4-1 for Romania at one point then 3 straight wins for Georgia made it 4-4 but Romanians took the lead again in 2010 5-4 then 2 wins for Lelos and they surpassed the oaks for the first time ever in 2013! and last year it was a draw so we got to keep it in Tbilisi

 

[mihneadds]

Yes.... honestly its the only match that matters in ENC . The rest are nice to watch and a good show.... but this one brings the intensity of a tier 1 game. Since both of us are quallified , it is only a matter of pride.

 

[racer0bv]

it is only a matter of pride.

and the very important europe 1 RWC spot, which could bring a match with the All Blacks, a top 3 finish in the group, with two wins, and the qualification to RWC2019.

 

[djwizard84]

and the very important europe 1 RWC spot, which could bring a match with the All Blacks, a top 3 finish in the group, with two wins, and the qualification to RWC2019.

Only

You now, people in the SH says that the RC is the best tournament in the world because it has the top 3 unions and Argentina with a home away system. so why not to create in Europe a 2 level new system where the top 4 6Nations Unions play at the top level and the 2 lowest 6Nations Unions against Georgia and Romania, due to the fact they are already far away from the bottom 4 ENC and more competitive against tier 2 nations and for sure to be uncomfortable to any 6 Nations Union. Of course with the relegation/promotion system.

 

[mihneadds]

Then it would be an anual exchange between Romania/Georgia and Italy/perhaps Scotland. However , financially ,it would be a fail for the relegated 6 nations. They would never agree. I see more affordable a tier 2 system with USA CAN ROM GEO JAPAN and maybe RUS

 

[Toko_11]

I see more affordable a tier 2 system with USA CAN ROM GEO JAPAN and maybe RUS

Its not really affordable mate. I can't see any of those unions affording those trips, Georgia and Romania to north america and japan every year and vice-versa ? i doubt it. For now all ENC teams can do is win 2 games on the WC, that ought to bring some kind of change around.

 

[djwizard84]

The thing is to keep the process in the european area, for the moment USA, CANADA & JAPAN have their PNC and at least the North American Unions get a game a year against a European Tier 1 Nation.
For the moment is good to see that at least some Tier 2 Nations are playing regularly in Georgia and Rumania, now is the time to get more game against T1's. If I'm right Georgia since RWC2011 played only ONE game against T1 Union and it was Argentina.

 

[stus768]

I don't understand y the Saxons/Wolfhounds/Scotland A don't give Geogia/Romania/Russia games? Be more productive all round.

 

[Toko_11]

It looks like we'll be playing Ireland this year which would make it the total of 2 Tier 1 games between the world cups that not nearly enough but its way better than 0 games in the last 4 year cycle

 

[LittleGuy]

I don't understand y the Saxons/Wolfhounds/Scotland A don't give Geogia/Romania/Russia games? Be more productive all round.

I can't speak for the ENC guys but from a Canadian perspective I'd rather play lower ranked sides than face a Tier One sides "B" team. I was glad to see the Churchill Cup ended for this reason, it served it's purpose when Canada/U.S.A. were struggling from 2004-09ish and was kind of a waste of time after that.

 

[Pockets]

I can't speak for the ENC guys but from a Canadian perspective I'd rather play lower ranked sides than face a Tier One sides "B" team. I was glad to see the Churchill Cup ended for this reason, it served it's purpose when Canada/U.S.A. were struggling from 2004-09ish and was kind of a waste of time after that.

Would it be useful for Canada to have a B team too, perhaps? I don't know how feasible it would be when it comes to scheduling, but it seems like a way of getting domestic-based players the opportunity to play against pros more often?

 

[mihneadds]

Well... that was the secret of Romania's today top form. We have a B side active in challenge cup playing against oponents like falcons or stade francais

 

[norcalbuff]

I can't speak for the ENC guys but from a Canadian perspective I'd rather play lower ranked sides than face a Tier One sides "B" team. I was glad to see the Churchill Cup ended for this reason, it served it's purpose when Canada/U.S.A. were struggling from 2004-09ish and was kind of a waste of time after that.

It's tough. There is such a dropoff in quality in the ENC currently after Georgia and Romania that it would not be particularly beneficial to play these other sides. Russia and Spain at a push might be OK, but they are still well below the necessary standard both on and off the pitch. Not much point in a 4 team tournament either when we already play each other almost every year. Here's how I see the viability of the other unions in the ENC:

Russia: terrible coach and terrible union. Weather is an issue for them in the Feb-Mar window so they either need to find reasonable venues unlike Sochi and their most recent disaster, or they should go try and join the Asia 5 Nations which is played in a better time of year.

Spain: mediocre union, doesn't really seem to be going anywhere on or off the pitch

Portugal: seemingly disinterested in professionalism so you can pretty much dismiss them until that attitude changes

Belgium: going back down to 1B but they seem to have a bright future on and off the pitch. A potential candidate for inclusion, but only probably 5 years down the road.

Others:

Moldova: maybe they can turn into the new Georgia but they are a long way away from that happening

Germany: huge country and economy, but lots of competing sports make it tough to see rugby making much headway

Netherlands: has dropped off over the past 10 years but they have announced an ambitious program. Long term candidate.

I'd go with England Saxons and Ireland Wolfhounds until others are up to standard on and off the pitch.

 

[LittleGuy]

Would it be useful for Canada to have a B team too, perhaps? I don't know how feasible it would be when it comes to scheduling, but it seems like a way of getting domestic-based players the opportunity to play against pros more often?

We do, it plays in the America's Rugby Championship versus, the American, Argentine second sides and Uruguay's top side.

@ norcal those are good points, Georgia and Romania are really seperating from the pack (though I think Russia could get a rebound if they canned some of their management and sent Kingsley Jones to the Crimea)

The Iberian countries have really stalled, Portugal went into a transition after peaking in 06-07ish and haven't recovered. They have no depth beyond a core of abut ten or so pretty decent players. Meanwhile Spain are a little better off in prospects in 15's but have fed their 7's side to the wolves this year as it can barely beat the invited sides.

The geographic distances to some of the other Tier Two powers are a little far off too, the travel to and from the PI's and Japan to Romania/Georgia is expensive and time consuming.

I think I said it before in November but the resurgance of Romanian rugby is the most under-reported story in the rugby press. A decade ago obituaries were written and now they could really give Canada and Italy tough games in 2015.

 

[Toko_11]

also it would be very hard to persuade french clubs on releasing players for the saxon or wolfhound games.. then we'll have to get our local championship team and lose to those B teams which will then create arguments about how Georgia is not up to the level of Italy and Scotland etc etc.... naah I'd much rather play US and Canada on test matches as we usually do. as for tournaments we have discussed about 15 different options over last 4 years but Conservatives keep coming up with excuses about why this or that format is bad/impossible so I'm just waiting for them to offer something since anything we come up with is so unacceptable

 

[dragos03]

I think I said it before in November but the resurgance of Romanian rugby is the most under-reported story in the rugby press. A decade ago obituaries were written and now they could really give Canada and Italy tough games in 2015.

Indeed, Romania gets very little coverage. Not only from the mainstream rugby press, but on blogs and forums as well. Many people seem to want Georgia or even Russia to grow and do well but Romania's results are usually ignored (even if we only lost one of our last 16 matches).

I'm gonna start a topic with more info about Romanian rugby on this forum in a few weeks, when the domestic season starts (btw, the strength of the Romania Superliga is also ignored by the rugby community).