[2014 Mid-Year Tests] England

[TheSaffycen]

Huh?!

England training group announced:

Loose-head props: Alex Corbisiero (Northampton Saints), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Matt Mullan (Wasps), Mako Vunipola (Saracens)
Tight-head props: Kieran Brookes (Newcastle Falcons), Henry Thomas (Bath Rugby), David Wilson (Bath Rugby)
Hookers: Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), Rob Webber (Bath Rugby), Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers)
Locks: Dave Attwood (Bath Rugby), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers), Ed Slater (Leicester Tigers)
Back rows: Calum Clark (Northampton Saints), Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers), Will Fraser (Saracens), James Haskell (Wasps), Tom Johnson (Exeter Chiefs), Matt Kvesic (Gloucester Rugby), Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Billy Vunipola (Saracens), Tom Wood (Northampton Saints), Jackson Wray (Saracens)
Scrum-halves: Danny Care (Harlequins), Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints), Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)
Fly-halves: Freddie Burns (Leicester Tigers), Danny Cipriani (Sale Sharks), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Bath Rugby), Stephen Myler (Northampton Saints), Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs)
Centres: Anthony Allen (Leicester Tigers), Brad Barritt (Saracens), Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints), Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby), Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby), Henry Trinder (Gloucester Rugby), Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers), Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby)
Back-threes: Chris Ashton (Saracens), Mike Brown (Harlequins), Ben Foden (Northampton Saints), Alex Goode (Saracens), Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs), Chris Pennell (Worcester Warriors), Marland Yarde (Harlequins), Christian Wade (Wasps), Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby)
Injured: Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Sam Dickinson (Northampton Saints), Ollie Devoto (Bath Rugby)

Callum Clark and Jackson Wray... setting the bar high, I see!

Dont see how Sinkler/Cooper -wooley are behind Thomas. Callum Clark is just ****ing useless and how he is included is just plain retarded, and Wray is pointless. I like Wray for Saracens as he is kind of like a big runner but at prem level, at intl level he isn't big 6'2 and 104 kg (though he looks heavier now) and he doesn't have the workrate of Robshaw/Wood. His inclusion is not really warranted either, he has some very good games but not a great season. Should have had Fearns/Ewers in there at 8.
So we have in the back row
6-Croft/Clark/Johnson/Wood/Wray/Haskell
7-Robshaw/Kvesic/Fraser/Haskell
8-Morgan/Vunipola/Haskell

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I think Clark is in as he has done all the England age grade rugby. He is a good solid 6 at club level but nothing special and I still worry about his temper!

I read the article and the England squad will be announced in October so that Lancaster can pick on form! Brilliant idea

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I wouldn't read too much into this - I get the impression it's more an end of season debrief than anything else.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I wouldn't read too much into this - I get the impression it's more an end of season debrief than anything else.

Jackson Wray is involved with England - that should be impossibly depressing for you.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

When the extent of Seymour's England (XVs) career is being called into the Saxons after 2-3 injuries, and being an unused replacement vs Scotland 'A', you learn to block out all of the pain.

 

[Crapspray]

So... by my reckoning there's a decent deadwood bonfire in there:

Clark, Johnson, and Wray (All behind Wood, Haskell, and Croft.)
Allen, Barritt, Ashton, and Goode. (Just meh personified.)

Notable omissions: Sinckler, Wallace, and Ewers. Surely with only a year left these players should have been weeded-out/superceded by now?

Good to see that Wade is not down as injured. He (and we) were cursed with the timing of his injury last autumn. Would have been great to have seen him with 20+ caps in the World Cup; now he'll be lucky to get more than five.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Maybe the younger players Like Sinckler, Wallace and Ewers are with there clubs for preseason, which makes more sense than missing game time.

Clubs don't tend to play senior players in the first pre season, so can go to England "Training camp" to do whatever.

So... by my reckoning there's a decent deadwood bonfire in there:

Allen, Barritt, Ashton, and Goode. (Just meh personified.)

You don't know Lancaster do you.

Also Allen meh I bet he would be a fine 12 for England, but there are younger players with more upside than him. But Allen imo should have been capped in the last 3 years.

 

[TheSaffycen]

It does seem pointless having a guy like Johnson there, clark and wray are just weird/**** decisions. Wallace isn't actually a notable omission (IMO) as he hasn't performed for the saxons and he isn't that stand out for Quins.
Looking at the half-backs Wigglesworth, Myler and maybe slade shouldn't be there. Allen and Trinder aren't going to have a look in and would be surprised if Joseph does, Goode is poor as we have Brown,Foden,Pennell,Watson and Daly ahead of him(how he hasn't been selected)

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Don't think Wallace is much to upset about - he's been average to poor in his Saxons/non-cap appearances so far (though the sides as a whole don't look great) - Kvesic is/should be ahead of him anywho.
Ewers is good but no real need for 3 specialised 8s, especially with Haskell there to cover.

Sinkler should absolutely be there, but I have faith he'll be in the Saxons (at least) in the Autumn/6N - like I said, I think this is more of a debrief/see how they're doing conditioning wise, more than anything. They're not going to replace anyone *coughThomascough* yet.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Still no Daly... I really do wonder what he has to do to even get a look in. Every time I've seen him play he has been impressive and has exactly the sort of rugby brain England need.

 

[goodNumber10]

Still no Daly... I really do wonder what he has to do to even get a look in.

learn to tackle.

 

[TheSaffycen]

With Ashton and Goode there tackling clearly is not needed.

 

[goodNumber10]

haha! true!

 

[Crapspray]

I only count Wallace as an omission mainly because of the inclusion of Wray, Clark, and Johnson. He's far further up my pecking order of flankers than them. Admittedly he hasn't impressed during the Saxons games (probably why he's not there), but the entire pack has usually been dire in those games- Clark at blindside and captain (didn't he headbutt someone [twice] last time he captained an England side?) for example. Stick him in the pack that faced the Crusaders and I'm sure he'd look a lot better.

In any case he's a young openside, and I'm hoping with him, Fraser, and Kvesic there's three promising players to compete for the shirt out to RWC2019 and beyond. It's a shame a jackaling 7 has yet to be tried by Lancaster... after three years.

---

I can't believe I forgot Daly. Even I'm overlooking him now. His defence was a bit off vs the BaaBaas, but he was brilliant in attack. How anyone can not be played because of suspect defence when Ashton was played for so long (and is still being played) is ridiculous in my opinion.

---

And yeah, Thomas is now looking like poor investment compared to Sinckler and Brookes. Imagine how much better they'd be after 18 months in the England camp. Compare Marler's improvement, from the 2012 tour of South Africa to the Six Nations this year, to Thomas's from the 2013 Six Nations to this summer tour.

 

[Patchey]

Not thats surprising, except for a few Saxons players and guys who toured not making it. Weird props but that isn't too surprising much as I'd hoped Thomas would be out. Am I right in thinking that the new EPS/Saxons squads will be announced after this?

On Daly, his tackling if his, his positioning is his weakness (along with the fact that he is probably seen as a bit too much of a jack of all trades). Still, his omission but Goode's continuing presence in the squad is getting purely offensive. Alex Goode is a solid, reliable but unimaginative choice. To use a footballing comparison, he's a bit like Gareth Barry or Scott Parker. You know he'd going to give his all for the shirt and it is, in a way, quite nice to see someone rewarded for all their hard work. However Goode over Daly would be like Roy Hodgson taking Scott Parker to Euro 2012 when he had a young Paul Scholes available. Madness.

I'll stop with the round ball talk, but you probably get how odd I think his omission is.

IMO the guys who should be there and aren't are Ward, Sinckler, Wallace, Daly and maybe Robson. I'd really like to see Wray, Clarke and Johnson move aside some time soon as well, especially Wray and Clarke. Still, all in all a not bad squad.

Kvesic Wallace and Fraser are all clear-cut opensides and Fearns is a clear cut blindside.

The only guy who is younger than him who is of a similar style is Ewers.

True, but I'll still a little suspicious of making clear distinctions between types of flanker give Lancaster's propensity for picking the three back rows he wants, regardless of normal position, rather than a well defined blindside, openside and eight. Still, I take your point.

He's competing with Ewers, Wood and Haskell then? And by the looks of this squad Clarke (god knows why). I don't see him getting more than a token cap on a tour or against a Tier 2 side. Still I never thought Robshaw would be given a fair crack and look how that turned out!

 

[Geordie]

I dont understand Garveys omission. A huge lump of a 6 who can cover lock. Calum Clark has done nothing and TOm Johnson also puzzles me when he's in there but Ewers is not.

I agree that Henry Thomas needs to be moved along.

Most of the squad is as expected...but the back row is still the area.

Im a huge fan of Tom Wood but i just think we need a monster of a 6 in there...

 

[welshglory]

I would suggest Daly needs to consistently play in one position.

 

[goodNumber10]

what Welshglory says on Daly, until he is consistently outperforming anyone in a specific position why would he make the squad?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

what Welshglory says on Daly, until he is consistently outperforming anyone in a specific position why would he make the squad?

How can you consistently outperform someone if you're not being picked? Daly has shown he has a good attacking brain every time he has played yet still isn't given a chance in the England setup.

 

[Patchey]

How can you consistently outperform someone if you're not being picked? Daly has shown he has a good attacking brain every time he has played yet still isn't given a chance in the England setup.

I'm assuming he meant at domestic level? In which case I still say he'd been consistently better than Goode as a 15.

Sadly I don't think Daly is going to settle down positionally any time soon and if he does its more likely to be at 13 judging by Wasps pre-season transfers. I don't think he should be afraid of utility players, I still contend that Daly would be an incredible option as the third back on the bench. Cover for 15/13 and the wing, combined with a ten who could probably shoe horn in at 12 and the obligatory scum-half if he were desperate and thats an incredibly versatile bench.