[2014 Mid-Year Tests] England

Discussion in 'International Test Matches' started by ImScotty, Mar 18, 2014.

  1. TheSaffycen

    TheSaffycen First XV

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    Dont see how Sinkler/Cooper -wooley are behind Thomas. Callum Clark is just ****ing useless and how he is included is just plain retarded, and Wray is pointless. I like Wray for Saracens as he is kind of like a big runner but at prem level, at intl level he isn't big 6'2 and 104 kg (though he looks heavier now) and he doesn't have the workrate of Robshaw/Wood. His inclusion is not really warranted either, he has some very good games but not a great season. Should have had Fearns/Ewers in there at 8.
    So we have in the back row
    6-Croft/Clark/Johnson/Wood/Wray/Haskell
    7-Robshaw/Kvesic/Fraser/Haskell
    8-Morgan/Vunipola/Haskell
     
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  3. living sacrifice

    living sacrifice First XV

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    I think Clark is in as he has done all the England age grade rugby. He is a good solid 6 at club level but nothing special and I still worry about his temper!

    I read the article and the England squad will be announced in October so that Lancaster can pick on form! Brilliant idea
     
  4. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    I wouldn't read too much into this - I get the impression it's more an end of season debrief than anything else.
     
  5. ratsapprentice

    ratsapprentice Hall of Fame

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    Jackson Wray is involved with England - that should be impossibly depressing for you.
     
  6. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    When the extent of Seymour's England (XVs) career is being called into the Saxons after 2-3 injuries, and being an unused replacement vs Scotland 'A', you learn to block out all of the pain.
     
  7. Crapspray

    Crapspray Bench Player

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    So... by my reckoning there's a decent deadwood bonfire in there:

    Clark, Johnson, and Wray (All behind Wood, Haskell, and Croft.)
    Allen, Barritt, Ashton, and Goode. (Just meh personified.)

    Notable omissions: Sinckler, Wallace, and Ewers. Surely with only a year left these players should have been weeded-out/superceded by now?

    Good to see that Wade is not down as injured. He (and we) were cursed with the timing of his injury last autumn. Would have been great to have seen him with 20+ caps in the World Cup; now he'll be lucky to get more than five.
     
  8. Tigs Man

    Tigs Man Hall of Fame

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    Maybe the younger players Like Sinckler, Wallace and Ewers are with there clubs for preseason, which makes more sense than missing game time.

    Clubs don't tend to play senior players in the first pre season, so can go to England "Training camp" to do whatever.


    You don't know Lancaster do you.

    Also Allen meh I bet he would be a fine 12 for England, but there are younger players with more upside than him. But Allen imo should have been capped in the last 3 years.
     
  9. TheSaffycen

    TheSaffycen First XV

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    It does seem pointless having a guy like Johnson there, clark and wray are just weird/**** decisions. Wallace isn't actually a notable omission (IMO) as he hasn't performed for the saxons and he isn't that stand out for Quins.
    Looking at the half-backs Wigglesworth, Myler and maybe slade shouldn't be there. Allen and Trinder aren't going to have a look in and would be surprised if Joseph does, Goode is poor as we have Brown,Foden,Pennell,Watson and Daly ahead of him(how he hasn't been selected)
     
  10. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    Don't think Wallace is much to upset about - he's been average to poor in his Saxons/non-cap appearances so far (though the sides as a whole don't look great) - Kvesic is/should be ahead of him anywho.
    Ewers is good but no real need for 3 specialised 8s, especially with Haskell there to cover.

    Sinkler should absolutely be there, but I have faith he'll be in the Saxons (at least) in the Autumn/6N - like I said, I think this is more of a debrief/see how they're doing conditioning wise, more than anything. They're not going to replace anyone *coughThomascough* yet.
     
  11. ragerancher

    ragerancher First XV

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    Still no Daly... I really do wonder what he has to do to even get a look in. Every time I've seen him play he has been impressive and has exactly the sort of rugby brain England need.
     
  12. goodNumber10

    goodNumber10 International

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    learn to tackle.
     
  13. TheSaffycen

    TheSaffycen First XV

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    With Ashton and Goode there tackling clearly is not needed.
     
  14. goodNumber10

    goodNumber10 International

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    haha! true!
     
  15. Crapspray

    Crapspray Bench Player

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    I only count Wallace as an omission mainly because of the inclusion of Wray, Clark, and Johnson. He's far further up my pecking order of flankers than them. Admittedly he hasn't impressed during the Saxons games (probably why he's not there), but the entire pack has usually been dire in those games- Clark at blindside and captain (didn't he headbutt someone [twice] last time he captained an England side?) for example. Stick him in the pack that faced the Crusaders and I'm sure he'd look a lot better.

    In any case he's a young openside, and I'm hoping with him, Fraser, and Kvesic there's three promising players to compete for the shirt out to RWC2019 and beyond. It's a shame a jackaling 7 has yet to be tried by Lancaster... after three years.

    ---

    I can't believe I forgot Daly. Even I'm overlooking him now. His defence was a bit off vs the BaaBaas, but he was brilliant in attack. How anyone can not be played because of suspect defence when Ashton was played for so long (and is still being played) is ridiculous in my opinion.

    ---

    And yeah, Thomas is now looking like poor investment compared to Sinckler and Brookes. Imagine how much better they'd be after 18 months in the England camp. Compare Marler's improvement, from the 2012 tour of South Africa to the Six Nations this year, to Thomas's from the 2013 Six Nations to this summer tour.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2014
  16. Patchey

    Patchey First XV

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    Not thats surprising, except for a few Saxons players and guys who toured not making it. Weird props but that isn't too surprising much as I'd hoped Thomas would be out. Am I right in thinking that the new EPS/Saxons squads will be announced after this?

    On Daly, his tackling if his, his positioning is his weakness (along with the fact that he is probably seen as a bit too much of a jack of all trades). Still, his omission but Goode's continuing presence in the squad is getting purely offensive. Alex Goode is a solid, reliable but unimaginative choice. To use a footballing comparison, he's a bit like Gareth Barry or Scott Parker. You know he'd going to give his all for the shirt and it is, in a way, quite nice to see someone rewarded for all their hard work. However Goode over Daly would be like Roy Hodgson taking Scott Parker to Euro 2012 when he had a young Paul Scholes available. Madness.

    I'll stop with the round ball talk, but you probably get how odd I think his omission is.

    IMO the guys who should be there and aren't are Ward, Sinckler, Wallace, Daly and maybe Robson. I'd really like to see Wray, Clarke and Johnson move aside some time soon as well, especially Wray and Clarke. Still, all in all a not bad squad.

    True, but I'll still a little suspicious of making clear distinctions between types of flanker give Lancaster's propensity for picking the three back rows he wants, regardless of normal position, rather than a well defined blindside, openside and eight. Still, I take your point.

    He's competing with Ewers, Wood and Haskell then? And by the looks of this squad Clarke (god knows why). I don't see him getting more than a token cap on a tour or against a Tier 2 side. Still I never thought Robshaw would be given a fair crack and look how that turned out!
     
  17. Geordiefalcon

    Geordiefalcon Bench Player

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    I dont understand Garveys omission. A huge lump of a 6 who can cover lock. Calum Clark has done nothing and TOm Johnson also puzzles me when he's in there but Ewers is not.

    I agree that Henry Thomas needs to be moved along.

    Most of the squad is as expected...but the back row is still the area.

    Im a huge fan of Tom Wood but i just think we need a monster of a 6 in there...
     
  18. welshglory

    welshglory First XV

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    I would suggest Daly needs to consistently play in one position.
     
  19. goodNumber10

    goodNumber10 International

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    what Welshglory says on Daly, until he is consistently outperforming anyone in a specific position why would he make the squad?
     
  20. ragerancher

    ragerancher First XV

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    How can you consistently outperform someone if you're not being picked? Daly has shown he has a good attacking brain every time he has played yet still isn't given a chance in the England setup.
     
  21. Patchey

    Patchey First XV

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    I'm assuming he meant at domestic level? In which case I still say he'd been consistently better than Goode as a 15.

    Sadly I don't think Daly is going to settle down positionally any time soon and if he does its more likely to be at 13 judging by Wasps pre-season transfers. I don't think he should be afraid of utility players, I still contend that Daly would be an incredible option as the third back on the bench. Cover for 15/13 and the wing, combined with a ten who could probably shoe horn in at 12 and the obligatory scum-half if he were desperate and thats an incredibly versatile bench.
     
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