2014 QBE Internationals [EOYT] England

[ratsapprentice]

We're two games into the season - you can't be sure of anyone's form for another couple of rounds at least.

His main openside rival, Kvesic, has been injured and has three barnstorming England performances under his belt.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Yes but the two players being mentioned Haskell and Robshaw he has both gone up against, and out performed them. Kvesic is a good player but I don't think he will be in the AI. He has a lot to make up on the others and who knows how Glos will be this year.

Thinking about it the team I would pick
1.Corbisiero 2.Hartley 3.Wilson 4.Launchbury 5.Lawes 6.Robshaw 7.Fraser 8 .Haskell
9.Care 10.Cipriani 11.Yarde 12.Burrell 13.Tuilagi 14.Watson 15.Brown
16.Webber 17.Marler 18.Sinkler 19.Kitchener 20.Fearns 21.Youngs 22.Burns 23.May

 

[Crapspray]

I would love to see a Robshaw/Haskell combo on the flanks, the physicality, experience and strength that would have, phwoar.

Err... we did. in the first test this summer. It was very good too. Though not as good, I would say, as Haskell and Kvesic against the Crusaders. Haskell smashing things and Kvesic turning it over regularly; it's amazing what specialists can do. It was a shame Lancaster chose to play Johnson at 8 and left a good carrier like Ewers at home for the BaaBaas.

As for Fraser, he's got to prove he can manage more than two months without being injured for the next ten. Harsh, but England can't afford that sort of disruption this close to the World Cup. Bring him into the EPS, maybe, but ultimately the four flankers remain Croft, Haskell, Robshaw, and Wood for me. Kvesic and Fraser would have to be imperious all season to knock one of them off in time. In short, I could only see Fraser getting in if he plays like this every game of the season for the whole season. Otherwise, Saxons caps and Kvesic runs out against Samoa/Italy/Scotland.

 

[johnnyno1]

twelvetrees!!!!!!????? one of the main reasons the nz tour ended so negatively. had it not been for his amateur handling errors and poor passing we may have achieved something a bit more memorable. do not even consider him for the autumn or six nations.maybe world cup if he proves himself...

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Yes but the two players being mentioned Haskell and Robshaw he has both gone up against, and out performed them. Kvesic is a good player but I don't think he will be in the AI. He has a lot to make up on the others and who knows how Glos will be this year.

Thinking about it the team I would pick
1.Corbisiero 2.Hartley 3.Wilson 4.Launchbury 5.Lawes 6.Robshaw 7.Fraser 8 .Haskell
9.Care 10.Cipriani 11.Yarde 12.Burrell 13.Tuilagi 14.Watson 15.Brown
16.Webber 17.Marler 18.Sinkler 19.Kitchener 20.Fearns 21.Youngs 22.Burns 23.May

Would have foden over May.

Kitchener Parling is close a good season from Kitch and it could be likely he adds more explosiveness off the bench.

not going to touch the back row as there is so many combos about.

 

[TheSaffycen]

As for Fraser, he's got to prove he can manage more than two months without being injured for the next ten. Harsh, but England can't afford that sort of disruption this close to the World Cup. Bring him into the EPS, maybe, but ultimately the four flankers remain Croft, Haskell, Robshaw, and Wood for me. Kvesic and Fraser would have to be imperious all season to knock one of them off in time. In short, I could only see Fraser getting in if he plays like this every game of the season for the whole season. Otherwise, Saxons caps and Kvesic runs out against Samoa/Italy/Scotland.

Twelvetrees and Croft where both selected of injuries, the England management don't seem to take much notice of time out injured.

Would have foden over May.

Kitchener Parling is close a good season from Kitch and it could be likely he adds more explosiveness off the bench.

not going to touch the back row as there is so many combos about.

Chose Kitchener because of his ridiculous speed and lineout ability. Also Watson and Brown cover 15 as well as Cips and Burns. May gives you a 13,14,15 off the bench. I wouldn't actually mind the idea of 10.Burns 12.Burrell 13.Tuilagi 15.Cipriani the creativity and pace in our attack would be brilliant.

 

[Crapspray]

Twelvetrees and Croft where both selected of injuries, the England management don't seem to take much notice of time out injured.

Croft is a two times Lion and has been playing for England now for, what, eight years? Twelvetrees was only selected injured in New Zealand and played in the second test- along with finalists who flew out late. Otherwise he's been available for all England games since first capped- bar Argentina, when he was with the Lions.

Contrast to Fraser, who has only ever played for the Saxons and has only been in an EPS camp for about two weeks. If he wasn't an almost completely unknown entity at international level perhaps he'd get a shot. With the World Cup now 12 months away, I don't think it would be advised to select him. He could well crock soon after a few caps, be too inexperienced to make a world cup squad, and ultimately waste caps which would then have been better handed-out to Kvesic/A.N. Other. If he lights the world on fire all season, give him a go. But as it stands, he needs a lot of time and petrol before he'd convince me to drop an England flanker for him. Injury cover? Sure. Anything near game time? Not likely.

 

[Geordie]

Dont forget Kitchener is 6'6 and 19st. Thats some unit and he's mobile to go with it!

Lots of talk about Croft. I personally prefer a big powerhouse in there at 6. Haskell or Ewers etc. Would you have Croft in at 6?

 

[Peat]

I don't see how people talk about the 7 shirt and don't put Fraser down. He is in the best form , he is a genuine fetcher which people have been wanting. Haskell should play at 6/8 I wouldn't even mind Robshaw - Haskell- Fraser as you have the ball handling and the ground work available. Would it lack carrying though ?

Did he outplay Robshaw if you weight the respective performances of their packs that day though? I'd have called it a score draw. Still, yes, should definitely be part of the conversation, but his lack of experience will count against him.

Err... we did. in the first test this summer. It was very good too. Though not as good, I would say, as Haskell and Kvesic against the Crusaders. Haskell smashing things and Kvesic turning it over regularly; it's amazing what specialists can do. It was a shame Lancaster chose to play Johnson at 8 and left a good carrier like Ewers at home for the BaaBaas.

It's even more amazing what playing against the Crusaders rather than New Zealand will do. Pinch of salt on that one imo.

Croft is a two times Lion and has been playing for England now for, what, eight years? Twelvetrees was only selected injured in New Zealand and played in the second test- along with finalists who flew out late. Otherwise he's been available for all England games since first capped- bar Argentina, when he was with the Lions.

Twelvetrees didn't train before the Italy game (think it was that one). They are clearly willing to ignore fitness and disruption issues (see also: Corbs) but, as you point out, that's only done for the guys they like. I think they like Fraser, but not that much.

I think we might end up with both Fraser and Kvesic waiting for post-World Cup. That would be, imo, a mistake.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Did he outplay Robshaw if you weight the respective performances of their packs that day though? I'd have called it a score draw. Still, yes, should definitely be part of the conversation, but his lack of experience will count against him.

Twelvetrees didn't train before the Italy game (think it was that one). They are clearly willing to ignore fitness and disruption issues (see also: Corbs) but, as you point out, that's only done for the guys they like. I think they like Fraser, but not that much.

I think we might end up with both Fraser and Kvesic waiting for post-World Cup. That would be, imo, a mistake.

He got the MOTM award for the Quins v Sarries game, and I thought he was better. It was a hard one though as you said if we compare the pack performances, but I would have given it Fraser. Robshaw played a lot like a 6/8 though and I don't see why we can't play him there, apart from Lancaster stubbornness. Again I would like to see Kvesic play against Samoa and Italy, also maybe have Fraser involved off the bench to directly compare the two.

 

[Patchey]

I think we might end up with both Fraser and Kvesic waiting for post-World Cup. That would be, imo, a mistake.

Aye, one of them has to be given a shot pre-2015 otherwise we're going to be in the same old position, too many young players needing a run to give them all the shot they deserve.

 

[Peat]

Don't see the point of playing Kvesic against Samoa and Italy. We know he can perform strongly against Tier 1.5 countries, its his performance against tier 1 countries that is in question. I would give the Samoa start to Fraser at the moment. Maybe Kvesic on the bench to keep him sharp/find out how he looks at 6 if needed, but Fraser needs the chance more. Not sure what to do with the Italy game, what there being trophies at stake.

I also think prior to now no one's really forced the Robshaw at 7 thing enough for Lancaster. Kvesic has come close but being stuck in that Glaws season hurt him. I think he may well consider moving him to 6 if the guys at 7 make a breakthrough though.

 

[Crapspray]

It's even more amazing what playing against the Crusaders rather than New Zealand will do. Pinch of salt on that one imo.

Fair point. Though it was more the case that they (Haskell and Kvesic) were much more visible doing the traditional basics of their positions, compared to Wood and Robshaw blending into one.

Not sure what to do with the Italy game, what there being trophies at stake.

It's the second game of the tournament, at Twickenham. Eight day turnaround too. Surely safe enough for a couple of changes, provided England haven't just got hammered in Cardiff again. If a weakened team put 50 on them in Rome, it should be okay... touch wood.

It's either Italy/Samoa or wait until one of the World Cup warm-ups. Or none at all.

 

[glawsfan]

Controversal I know but I have never rated Twelvetrees and not sure why he has been anywhere near the England set up the last year or two. His distribution is average, Rarely will he make a break or gain any metres and has little pace. If we had a decent replacement at 12 then I wouldn't be against him being dropped at Gloucester even if he is captain. Trinder however has bags of potential and has the all round game to go higher up. He's got pace, Quick feet and is a clever player just look at the kick he put in for May's try on Saturday. His only slight weakness at the moment is his defence but being around in England squad will help. If it wasn't for his injury he would have started ahead of Tomkins last year. I would love him to be around the England squad as he gives England a different option at 13.

 

[Geordie]

I think Twelvetrees has lived on potential for too long now...with little actual genuine class performances to show as evidence.

His potential is excellent....he does have the brilliant array of passing in his locker, he's big strong and fast...but he's rediculously inconsistant and we rarely see a top class performance from him.

The much maligned Barritt might not have the silky skills people want from their 12...you know exactly what he gives and is incredibly consistant at a high level. ...he would run in to tank (and probably win) for his teammates. That would give the stability for someone like Cips, Ford or Burns who as seen as more fragile defensively to come in and we can bench Farrell.

Im hoping that Burrell can offer that defensive power whilst offering a lot more offensively.
And im watching Eastmond closely aswell.

 

[welshglory]

For Gloucester i would like to see what Mark Atkinson can do, he seemed to have a good partnership with Hooky in pre season. Would also compliment Tinder more than Twelvetrees imo with his direct running.

 

[Patchey]

Someone has been listening to Nick Mullens too much...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...p-Kieran-Longbottom-eyes-England-call-up.html

Sure we need another good tighthead but really?

Direct quote:

"I did not think I was eligible to play for England. I thought I would come here for a couple of years, become a better scrummager and go back and have another crack at playing for Australia.
"My manager asked 'do you have any British grandparents?' and I remembered my mum mentioning that her mum was born in England. To represet England would be a definite honour."

 

[ratsapprentice]

**** off ****.

 

[Geordie]

Ah no thank you....no way

Cole, Davy Wilson, Sinkler, Henry Thomas, Keiron Brookes, Fraser Balmain, Scott Wilson...

If we select Longbottom over all of those guys (most of whom are extremely young and progressing nicely) ill be majorly pi$$ed off!!!

 

[Darwin]

Lol.... If England ever needs to resort a TH prop that can't even make the Wallabies squad they are in trouble. Big trouble. Indeed they should probably just give up now.