2014 Six Nations: England vs Ireland (Round 3)

[Patchey]

for sure, but I just had a memory that there was pressure coming on before that happened... maybe I'm wrong.

I seem to recall England had the upper hand but were by no means 'manshaming' the Irish prior to Court coming on.

Irish posters, did that game kill Court's career?

 

[munstermuffin]

I don't see us having much of an upper hand at scrum time. Healy is a capable operator, but far from dominant. If he was a good tight head he probably wont go backwards, but scrummaging is never going to be a major strength of his game. Best is a good scrummaging hooker, and appears to be benefiting from the new scrum laws regarding hooking. Mike Ross is something of a worry imo. While experienced, he hasn't been great this season. I doubt he'll go backwards, but a large part of me wants to take a gamble on Martin Moore on the weekend.

In any case, I'm happy enough that Corbisiaro and Cole are out.

Interesting you mentioned that gamble as rumour is Moore could be starting. Personally I prefer Ross to start with Moore coming on as I think Moore is younger and better impacting than Ross would be. At scrum time it'll be fairly even but I worry in 1 sense that Wilson may start and have a man of match performance as it'd be typical of something like that to happen

 

[Feicarsinn]

I seem to recall England had the upper hand but were by no means 'manshaming' the Irish prior to Court coming on.

Irish posters, did that game kill Court's career?

Well it certainly didn't help the general public's perception of him, but if that's why Kidney stopped picking him then it was utterly unfair. Court is actually quite a strong scrummaging prop, arguably the best loosehead in the country in that regard. But he is a loosehead. It was unreasonable to expect him to be able to stand up to a strong international unit on the wrong side of the scrum.

Interesting you mentioned that gamble as rumour is Moore could be starting. Personally I prefer Ross to start with Moore coming on as I think Moore is younger and better impacting than Ross would be. At scrum time it'll be fairly even but I worry in 1 sense that Wilson may start and have a man of match performance as it'd be typical of something like that to happen.
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Eh, I think Moore is the better player at this point in time. More of a weapon in the scrum and a fair bit more mobile round the park. One will play for 50-60 minutes, I'd rather have it be the better player. As the Yanks say, start your studs.​

 

[big ginger 8]

The new scrum rules do seem to be suiting Healy, yeah we were being somewhat pressurised in 2012 beforehand but overall Hhealy has done well enough vs Cole. He's been scrummaging pretty well this tournament.

Anyway I'd be more worried about McGrath, he's a stronger scrummager than Healy and he'll either be against a probably wrecked Wilson or Thomas.

Feic, I think you're being a bit unfair on Ross there he's a better rucker than Moore and in someways a better carrier. I also think Ross is starting to get to grips with the new engagements.

 

[Feicarsinn]

The new scrum rules do seem to be suiting Healy, yeah we were being somewhat pressurised in 2012 beforehand but overall Hhealy has done well enough vs Cole. He's been scrummaging pretty well this tournament.

Anyway I'd be more worried about McGrath, he's a stronger scrummager than Healy and he'll either be against a probably wrecked Wilson or Thomas.

Feic, I think you're being a bit unfair on Ross there he's a better rucker than Moore and in someways a better carrier. I also think Ross is starting to get to grips with the new engagements.

I'm not saying that Ross is playing particularly badly, I just think he's not the form tighthead in the squad. That said, I do have a natural inclination towards all things new and shiny.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

Our front row bench is going to be one of the biggest factors in this game - McGrath, Cronin and Moore (I do think Ross will start) is a serious unit, we lose a bit in the loose but Cronin has got some pace. It's pretty impressive from a Leinster point of view that 5 out of the 6 front rowers wear blue.
From an Irish stand point, would it be beneficial to say move Moore / McGrath to other provinces, where they would potentially be starters?

 

[Big Ewis]

that Ford kid many have been talking about will get his first cap off the bench for England. Not the most relaxed atmosphere for a rookie...

 

[ratsapprentice]

He probably wont get his first cap if we're not fairly comfortably in control or Farrell get's injured/cramps up.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I could see Lancaster taking off 36 and moving Farrell to 12.

 

[lynam1104]

Our front row bench is going to be one of the biggest factors in this game - McGrath, Cronin and Moore (I do think Ross will start) is a serious unit, we lose a bit in the loose but Cronin has got some pace. It's pretty impressive from a Leinster point of view that 5 out of the 6 front rowers wear blue.
From an Irish stand point, would it be beneficial to say move Moore / McGrath to other provinces, where they would potentially be starters?

I can see McGarth getting slipping away at some point but Moore will Leinster;s No.1 tighthead by the end of this season I think.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I could see Lancaster taking off 36 and moving Farrell to 12.

I had that exact thought worryingly!

 

[Patchey]

I could see Lancaster taking off 36 and moving Farrell to 12.

I can see the post-game interview quote from Lancaster already:

'Well Owen and George played together in the under-20s so we were confident that moving Owen out to 12 would work. Unfortunately we'd forgotten how cr*p a centre he is and the crippling lack of creativity in the last quarter of the game really cost us'.

 

[big ginger 8]

So it's between Henderson and Ryan for sub secondrow now, with McCarthy subbing for Leinster tomorrow.

Our front row bench is going to be one of the biggest factors in this game - McGrath, Cronin and Moore (I do think Ross will start) is a serious unit, we lose a bit in the loose but Cronin has got some pace. It's pretty impressive from a Leinster point of view that 5 out of the 6 front rowers wear blue.
From an Irish stand point, would it be beneficial to say move Moore / McGrath to other provinces, where they would potentially be starters?

As stated by others Morre will be starting within the next season or two, his contract was also up this season and I believe he's already signed a new one.

Jack's deal meanwhile is up next season. He could end up moving but I doubt it. If you're looking at it from an Irish point of view he's already developing excellently. He's started 10 games for Leinster so far (subbing in 5 others) started one game for Ireland and subbed for the four other matches. That's as much gametime as any other prop out there I'd say (apart from Dan Cole ), the competition between him and Healy is also cleary pushing both on and doing them well. Prop is different to other position where you will end up being rotated and if you're in the 23 are basically guaranteed 15 minutes at least. From his point of view he's recently bought a house in Dublin and his girlfriend is living and working in Dublin.

 

[Toby Sweeney]

I can see the post-game interview quote from Lancaster already:

'Well Owen and George played together in the under-20s so we were confident that moving Owen out to 12 would work. Unfortunately we'd forgotten how cr*p a centre he is and the crippling lack of creativity in the last quarter of the game really cost us'.

he could well do this, personally I think this would be a bad move but he will feel keeping Farrell on will take a bit of pressure of Ford, either that or he won't play ford if the game is close.

 

[profitius]

The problem with Ford from an England point of view is his size. He is tiny and could be a defensive weak link.


As for the match, I'm quietly confident Ireland will win. I think the English backs are fairly blunt. Danny Care has been playing well but thats behind a dominant pack. Ireland will target to put him under pressure and also the English wingers. I think the Irish coaching team are better and Ireland has more experience and players who have played in many big games before. England are 4 points favourites in the bookies which is wrong IMO.

I can see McGarth getting slipping away at some point but Moore will Leinster;s No.1 tighthead by the end of this season I think.

Long term I think it could be Furlong. Either way Leinster are well stocked these days. It wasn't so long ago the provinces had mostly journeymen foreigners and Irish props who were mostly not up to the required standard.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I love how England have their most attacking 9/11/12/13/14/15 in recent memory, yet they're all just completely written off for no reason.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Ford is the same size as Aaron Cruden.

 

[McTallshort]

The problem with Ford from an England point of view is his size. He is tiny and could be a defensive weak link.


As for the match, I'm quietly confident Ireland will win. I think the English backs are fairly blunt. Danny Care has been playing well but thats behind a dominant pack. Ireland will target to put him under pressure and also the English wingers. I think the Irish coaching team are better and Ireland has more experience and players who have played in many big games before. England are 4 points favourites in the bookies which is wrong IMO.





Long term I think it could be Furlong. Either way Leinster are well stocked these days. It wasn't so long ago the provinces had mostly journeymen foreigners and Irish props who were mostly not up to the required standard.

What games have you been watching?

 

[big ginger 8]

I love how England have their most attacking 9/11/12/13/14/15 in recent memory, yet they're all just completely written off for no reason.

It's not for no reason...Farrell is still at 10!

Also I've yet to see Twelvetrees really prove his attacking ability at international level but that might just be becasue the Irish as a people apparently don't rate him.

 

[Peat]

Re The Tom Court thing - it's now forgotten that he had his best game for Ireland only the Autumn before, playing TH against New Zealand, and had rotated into tighthead occasionally with pretty destructive results for Ulster in the Pro12. No, it wasn't his speciality, but he could do it.

Anyway, it didn't kill his career. His career was kinda stillborn before that and continued so afterwards, a scrummager in a regime that wanted its props shining in the loose and surviving in the scrum.