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[2014 TRC] New Zealand v Australia in Auckland (23/08/2014)

Jaguares

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1 Wyatt Crockett
2 Dane Coles
3 Owen Franks
4 Brodie Retallick
5 Sam Whitelock
6 Liam Messam
7 Richie McCaw (c)
8 Kieran Read
9 Aaron Smith
10 Aaron Cruden
11 Julian Savea
12 Ryan Crotty
13 Conrad Smith
14 Cory Jane
15 Ben Smith

Reserves:

16 Keven Mealamu, 17 Ben Franks, 18 Charlie Faumuina, 19 Steven Luatua, 20 Sam Cane, 21 Tawera Kerr-Barlow, 22 Beauden Barrett, 23 Malakai Fekitoa
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1. James Slipper
2. Nathan Charles
3. Sekope Kepu
4. Sam Carter
5. Rob Simmons
6. Scott Fardy
7. Michael Hooper (c)
8. Wycliff Palu
9. Nic White
10. Kurtley Beale
11. Rob Horne
12. Matt Toomua
13. Adam Ashley-Cooper
14. Pat McCabe
15. Israel Folau

Reserves:

16. James Hanson, 17. Pek Cowan, 18. Ben Alexander, 19. Will Skelton, 20. Scott Higginbotham, 21. Nick Phipps.
22. Bernard Foley, 23. Tevita Kuridrani, 24th man - Ben McCalman


Stadium: Eden Park
Capacity: 50,000
City: Auckland
Country: New Zealand
Referee: Romain Poite

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And what about Corey Jane?

I would have preferred Piutau before last night. Jane was quiet but didn't do too much wrong. I don't think he is a player who will have a big impact in a tight game. He's not like Savea who can get over the advantage line easier.
 
Drop Jane? Why?
He wasn't stand out, but this was a typical wet weather game so not exactly one for wingers to shine. He's not flashy but he's still one of the best wingers in the world.
 
Drop Jane? Why?
He wasn't stand out, but this was a typical wet weather game so not exactly one for wingers to shine. He's not flashy but he's still one of the best wingers in the world.

I dont think I would drop Jane YET either but his number does look to be nearly up imo. With the amount of class winger/fullbacks we have I suspect the AB's are carrying alot of players in many positions who need a wake up call. Jane showed enough in the last game of the England series to convince me he's still got it though.

Mealamu, Owen Franks, Cruden would be my main concerns I would be bringing Ellis, Flynn, Slade and Todd into atleast bench positions. Barrett is not having the same bumper year as previously either. Id be looking at Slade again as back up flyhalf but Barrett is certainly worth a look in another couple of championship games so I wouldnt knee jerk and swap to many starting players ATM. In a few more games it will be pretty clear. End of the day NZ rugby isnt structured in a way where they can drop more than a couple of players due to contracting etc etc.

I still feel Franks is going unnoticed alot and is looking pretty lazy like Dagg imo. The issue with him is I feel Hansen has pretty much got himself in the situation where the backups arent really up to par either in particular against SA.
 
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I can see where you're coming from, Jane is no spring chicken, but is there genuinely a better option now?
Piutau is a great player, but a better winger than Jane? I wouldn't say so. If you want a full back to play wing you want one with experience there, and is there a fullback with more international experience on the wing than Jane?
 
I can see where you're coming from, Jane is no spring chicken, but is there genuinely a better option now?
Piutau is a great player, but a better winger than Jane? I wouldn't say so. If you want a full back to play wing you want one with experience there, and is there a fullback with more international experience on the wing than Jane?

Jane was originally a fullback and was converted to wing. The AB's do prefer to run Fullbacks on that wing since 2009 to help cover all the kicking that goes on in International rugby.

I think Piutau would do just fine. Hopefully for the AB's sake Jane has another year left in him as there's pretty much nobody in world rugby who can manipulate a defence in a split second like he can and get himself or somebody else away when there wasnt much on.
 
That's exactly my point.
Jane will serve exceptionally well until at least the world cup, then you've got a very capable replacement in Piutau.

To be fair it's a situation most nations would be tripping over themselves to be in: "Do we drop Cory Jane?"
 
This will be a massive uphill battle for us, but there were promising signs from last nights match that we can match the kiwis up front. Indeed, our forwards really dominated the second half and gave the team a really good platform. It was only the poor attacking structures that let us down; Beale stood too deep and we were just far too end-to-end in our play, so all the kiwis had to do was slide (which they're bloody good at).

All the same, White was awful I thought, we were missing some big guns up front, had two important halves out and actually had no wingers to choose from. So it's not all bad. McCabe should have scored in the corner, but the pass got to him too early and he's not the best finisher anyway... I have a feeling a guy like Speight or Digby Ione would have made more out of that situation.

The other thing of course was McKenzie really didn't capitalise on his powerful bench at all. I don't even remember if Kurindrani came on, which is criminal given how much his power could have added in the final 20.

I really would liked to have seen how the boys would have gone last night had the team been:

1. Slipper
2. Moore
3. Kepu
4. Simmons
5. Carter
6. Pocock (dual fetcher model has its risks, but breakdown domination would be worth it)
7. Hooper
8. Palu
9. Genia (has been better in the wallabies set-up and under Link generally)
10. Cooper
11. Ione
12. Toomua
13. AAC
14. Speight
15. Folau
 
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Jane was originally a fullback and was converted to wing. The AB's do prefer to run Fullbacks on that wing since 2009 to help cover all the kicking that goes on in International rugby.

I think Piutau would do just fine. Hopefully for the AB's sake Jane has another year left in him as there's pretty much nobody in world rugby who can manipulate a defence in a split second like he can and get himself or somebody else away when there wasnt much on.

And Tana Umaga was originally a winger who became one of the worlds best centres. Jonah Lomu originally a No.8...
 
This will be a massive uphill battle for us, but there were promising signs from last nights match that we can match the kiwis up front. Indeed, our forwards really dominated the second half and gave the team a really good platform. It was only the poor attacking structures that let us down; Beale stood too deep and we were just far too end-to-end in our play, so all the kiwis had to do was slide (which they're bloody good at).

All the same, White was awful I thought, we were missing some big guns up front, had two important halves out and actually had no wingers to choose from. So it's not all bad. McCabe should have scored in the corner, but the pass got to him too early and he's not the best finisher anyway... I have a feeling a guy like Speight or Digby Ione would have made more out of that situation.

The other thing of course was McKenzie really didn't capitalise on his powerful bench at all. I don't even remember if Kurindrani came on, which is criminal given how much his power could have added in the final 20.

I really would liked to have seen how the boys would have gone last night had the team been:

1. Slipper
2. Moore
3. Kepu
4. Simmons
5. Carter
6. Pocock (dual fetcher model has its risks, but breakdown domination would be worth it)
7. Hooper
8. Palu
9. Genia (has been better in the wallabies set-up and under Link generally)
10. Cooper
11. Ione
12. Toomua
13. AAC
14. Speight
15. Folau

Palu is a weak link at this level. His workrate isn't good enough and seems to simply lumber around. I would much prefer to see a Pocock, Higginbotham or even Skelton than Palu who has had more than enough chances at this level.
 
Palu is a weak link at this level. His workrate isn't good enough and seems to simply lumber around. I would much prefer to see a Pocock, Higginbotham or even Skelton than Palu who has had more than enough chances at this level.

Palu has been immense all season for the Waratahs and was highly effective in the France series. Perhaps he didn't set the world on fire on Saturday, but then neither did Kaino for mine. It was a dour arm wrestles and I hardly think Palu deserves to dropped after the season he's had. As for Pocock, I don't see him as a number 8, and Higginbotham is good with the ball in hand, but doesn't like the tough stuff that much. Skelton is great, but he can't play a full game, so that doesn't make much sense either.
 
dual openside flankers doesn't work for me especially when their both short, I would have 6.Fardy 7.Hooper 8.higgonbotham, Palu doesn't cut it for me at test level and I don't expect much from him this Saturday but I could be wrong.
 
dual openside flankers doesn't work for me especially when their both short, I would have 6.Fardy 7.Hooper 8.higgonbotham, Palu doesn't cut it for me at test level and I don't expect much from him this Saturday but I could be wrong.

Higgers is a great ball playing 8, but he's lazy around the ruck and not a dominant tackler. He's more suited late in the match, and when he's been up against Palu at Super level he has come off second best.
 
Higginbotham is a great player... for the opposition.

At test level he's an impact player, not a starter. As I said, he just doesn't do enough grunt work at that level. Say what you like about Palu, but he puts on big hits and gets in the face of the opposition.
 
That's exactly my point.
Jane will serve exceptionally well until at least the world cup, then you've got a very capable replacement in Piutau.

To be fair it's a situation most nations would be tripping over themselves to be in: "Do we drop Cory Jane?"

Jane is almost certain to start this week (unless the AB's have a massive change of heart and start Dagg at fullback). However Jane's time as a world class international winger is waning IMO. He was out for most of last season, and didn't really impress when he did return for the AB's at the end of the season. It looked as though he had been surpassed by both Ben Smith and Charles Piutau in terms of AB's right wing options, so needed a big Super Rugby season to stay on the AB's radar. He was overall very quiet (but accurate) for the Canes - you could almost count the number of tackles he broke all season on one hand.....

A number of injuries throughout the English series meant he started every match (Piutau was out for the whole series, Savea for match 1, Dagg for matches 2 & 3) - if there had been no injuries I don't think he would have played a single match. He was very quiet in the 1st match, had a shocker of epic proportions in the 2nd match, but did have an excellent 3rd test. He was very quiet again this last match (though most of the backline was). Piutau is only just back to full fitness (and didn't impress for Auckland in the weekend), but when fit and firing I think he is the AB's best option on the right wing. He doesn't have Jane's high ball skills or experience but offers a real attacking threat, and is a very strong defender too (Jane is accurate but quiet passive on defense). Unless Jane starts to show some consistent form I think he may struggle to make the AB's world cup squad, especially with Gear (and possibly Kahui) returning...

Higginbotham is a great player... for the opposition.

I agree. To start with he was the most penalised player in Super Rugby (conceding 32 penalties). You would normally expect the most penalties to be conceded by a prop (as there are a lot of penalties awarded at scrum time) or by someone who does a lot of work at the breakdown. Higginbotham fills neither of these roles. Indeed (according to the stats at foxsports.com.au) he didn't force a single turnover at the breakdown during the Super Rugby season. So basically he conceded 2+ completely unnecessary penalties per match.

His wide ranging ball running is an asset (along with his excellent ball handling skills), but I still think he plays far too loosely for test rugby, and the fact he concedes 2+ penalties per match makes him a complete liability in my opinion....

Palu was quiet last night, but he is clearly the best choice the Wallabies have in my opinion. He does the basics well, runs hard and straight, makes his tackles etc. I can't agree with the poster that suggested his work-rate isn't good enough either. He is not as dynamic as many others, but for a big lad but he gets through more than enough under-appreciated 'dirty work' - certainly far more so than Higginbotham (who spends most of his time loitering on the win...).

Anyways.... I don't expect too many changes for the AB's. If Kaino is out injured Messam will obviously come into the starting lineup (and do a good job IMO). Personally I would start Ben Franks and LH prop, but the selectors do like Crockett for some reason. Honestly I wouldn't be too fazed if Nonu was out injured. It would be interesting to see what the do if he is out though. Fekitoa is probably the next in line but has very little experience at 12. Crotty has a lot more experience in the position and is a much 'safer' option, but a Crotty/Smith midfield would perhaps lack powerful running option....
 
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