[2015 RWC] Quarter Final 2: New Zealand vs. France (17/10/2015)

[chikwa chibwe]

I don't know. You lost Woodcock, so no tries from a lineout move. Also, your scrum is now a bit weakened without your anchor. And the last time you faced the French in Cardiff, you lost...

Also, France had their poor game against Ireland, so they will come out guns blazing. I think this will be a very very close game.

Actually losing Woodcock is a blessing in disguise. He is not the same scrummager he used to be & he is definitely not an asset in loose play. I am a great admirer of joe Moody's scrummaging abilities.
What may be the All blacks undoing is the idiotic strategy of not contesting the breakdown. As a consequence of that strategy Tonga dominated possession. Such a strategy gives the opposition quick ball & unopposed go forward momentum. It also puts the AB's under unnecessary and continual pressure.

 

[austingtir]

I dont think any of our other scrummagers are better than woodcock I think old past it woodcock was still slightly better than the next best scrummager but these other guys should bring more around the field in defence and enthusiasm.


I would not be surprised at all to see a french scrum that really takes it to us on the weekend buy I also expect there wont be much else of substance to that French team.

 

[Yoshimitsu]

This ain't the days of yore

Interesting seeing some people rolling out the "it all depends which French team turn up on the day" type stuff (though not as funny as the insanity which is "they lost to the Irish on purpose" stuff). I'd argue this is far less of an issue than at almost anytime in France's history. The coaching team headed by PSA have managed to blunt the French team to a degree I've not witnessed before. They will roll out a better than average scrum and some big lumps in the backs who won't give their only flyer (Fofana) space or enough of the ball to operate in. I watched France give Italy a lesson live and whilst effective, there was nothing special about it. Bosh, Carry, Bosh, Carry, Bosh, Carry. The loss of Huget has left a massive hole for the French as he created space by being different and very good. The All blacks know this game, the Saffers roll it out year after year against them and they generally cope with it. French aren't as good as the South Africans at doing it.

I see very little chance of the French beating the All Blacks. The only reason I don't say "none at all" is that it is still sport and stranger things have happened. I can however see a relatively comfortable victory for New Zealand.

 

[chikwa chibwe]

Interesting seeing some people rolling out the "it all depends which French team turn up on the day" type stuff (though not as funny as the insanity which is "they lost to the Irish on purpose" stuff). I'd argue this is far less of an issue than at almost anytime in France's history. The coaching team headed by PSA have managed to blunt the French team to a degree I've not witnessed before. They will roll out a better than average scrum and some big lumps in the backs who won't give their only flyer (Fofana) space or enough of the ball to operate in. I watched France give Italy a lesson live and whilst effective, there was nothing special about it. Bosh, Carry, Bosh, Carry, Bosh, Carry. The loss of Huget has left a massive hole for the French as he created space by being different and very good. The All blacks know this game, the Saffers roll it out year after year against them and they generally cope with it. French aren't as good as the South Africans at doing it.

I see very little chance of the French beating the All Blacks. The only reason I don't say "none at all" is that it is still sport and stranger things have happened. I can however see a relatively comfortable victory for New Zealand.

Add Wayne Barnes in the equation and anything can happen!

 

[KeyboardWorrier]

If the French surrender (and I mean if, because it's not a given), will the All Blacks get to keep their uniforms and sporting equipment?

 

[saulan]

I really cannot wait for this weekend. It really is going to be a great weekend for rugby fans.

I think this will be a very interesting match and a close one. I don't really think New Zealand have 100% rocked up at this World Cup so far and that would be of concern to their fans, but they have been playing against weaker opposition (bar Argentina) and it can be quite difficult to keep up the ruthless factor in those games. That being said, I am sure they will bring their A game to this match as I think they will be more focused and have their first team out on the field.

Regardless of what anyone says, you can never write off France though. Yes they performed poorly in the second half of the Irish match. But history has shown that they can surprise anyone. On Yoshimitsu's comment, I don't think it is unfair to roll out the which team pitches up comment because I don't believe that their current circumstances now are significantly different to the times where they have come out of nowhere in the past. Yes, they will miss Huget, but I still think they have some flair within that side.

Personally, I think it will be a tight match with New Zealand winning by 5. Personally I have a slight bias towards this though as I'm flying to London to the Semis and would love to see a New Zealand South Africa semi final (quarter final results permitting).

 

[Every Time Ref]

Interesting seeing some people rolling out the "it all depends which French team turn up on the day" type stuff (though not as funny as the insanity which is "they lost to the Irish on purpose" stuff). I'd argue this is far less of an issue than at almost anytime in France's history. The coaching team headed by PSA have managed to blunt the French team to a degree I've not witnessed before. They will roll out a better than average scrum and some big lumps in the backs who won't give their only flyer (Fofana) space or enough of the ball to operate in. I watched France give Italy a lesson live and whilst effective, there was nothing special about it. Bosh, Carry, Bosh, Carry, Bosh, Carry. The loss of Huget has left a massive hole for the French as he created space by being different and very good. The All blacks know this game, the Saffers roll it out year after year against them and they generally cope with it. French aren't as good as the South Africans at doing it.

I see very little chance of the French beating the All Blacks. The only reason I don't say "none at all" is that it is still sport and stranger things have happened. I can however see a relatively comfortable victory for New Zealand.

This pretty much sums it up for me. No-one is stupid enough to write any team off, and especially the French against the Kiwis, because of history, because of the nature of sport etc. However, let's not kid ourselves; this French team is not the French team of 1999 or even 2007. They are not inconsistent; consistently, they are pretty bad. I really can't see it this time, even though NZ really haven't been that good (and I wouldn't have them favourites for the trophy anymore, as I would before the first game), they are still too good for France

Can I say, Yoshimitsu, I also massively respect that you will go to the trouble to edit your post over one missed apostrophe that most posters won't even notice. I understand - it doesn't matter if anyone else knows, because you know. Amen, brother

 

[Tony Manx]

Goodness I really hope that the powers that be read this.........Barnes would be a shoe in and would I laugh!!!!!

Oh yes!!!

 

[nzlizard]

The reality is this is knockout rounds in a world cup, we should expect anything to happen.

In all honesty NZ should win looking at the 2 teams, the French do look a little lost but you never know.

I think AB's by about 12-16.

 

[Bazzy]

Past world cups show that the French team in the knockout stage is a completely different beast to the French team in the pool stages. Other than for '91 they have at least been to the semis in every other world cup!

We need to start better than we have in the last few games. Otherwise we'll be in all sorts of trouble.

 

[Tarasque]

Kiwis 17 - France 10
I don't think we have the team to defeat or surprise New Zealand, that should be the last round for France.
In France we have a secret weapon "la gnaque" but yesterday la gnaque was Irish side.
La gnaque is to the French what "mojo" is to Austin power, without it, we can't win, with it we can defeat any team.

- - - Updated - - -

If the French surrender

Hopefully this is just a forum..

 

[Yoshimitsu]

O.K let's have the discussion

Regardless of what anyone says, you can never write off France though. Yes they performed poorly in the second half of the Irish match. But history has shown that they can surprise anyone. On Yoshimitsu's comment, I don't think it is unfair to roll out the which team pitches up comment because I don't believe that their current circumstances now are significantly different to the times where they have come out of nowhere in the past. Yes, they will miss Huget, but I still think they have some flair within that side.

Firstly, I like your enthusiasm. It should indeed be a great weekend and as I stated, in sport nothing is guaranteed.

I don't believe that their current circumstances now are significantly different to the times where they have come out of nowhere in the past.

This is key to the hypothesis I'm proposing. I'd argue that indeed the situation is very different. Previously there have been key leadership groups within the French team that despite what the powers that be demanded could decide to operate differently. There was also enough maverick talent to make it work. PSA was wary of this threat after the farce of Lievremont's tenure and has done everything in his power to ensure he is not undermined in this way. I believe Blanco was brought in especially to de-power this threat. Whilst there are clear leaders within the French team in Dusatoir and arguably Picamoles, they appear to be establishment men. Not mentalists like say a Harinordiqay. Also PSA is wedded to the same broken method that Stuart Lancaster is. Size and defence at almost all costs. But again like Lancaster he's not consistent so you end up with Michalak being mown down in the 10 channel but with Basteraud and Spedding apparently immovable selections.

For me that's why Huget is such a key loss for them. He had the ability to make even a limited game plan work due to his unique abilities. I don't see anyone pulling this French team up to do something different and even if they try, they don't have the personnel with the skills to make it work. Very similar for me to asking George Ford to make a midfield of Burgess and Barritt work. It just won't and can't.

Still, we'll have to wait and see. Stranger things have happened.

 

[Maverick1987]

I hope Wayne Barnes is the referee just to see the rugby forum implode and crash again !! Haha

 

[Mcfadden]

After Japan's massive win, I don't see much as impossible. The French defense will probably be very hard to breach early in the first half. But I can't get away from the idea that they should be absolutely spent after the Irish game.

No offense to anybody, but the pace of that match at times was pretty impressive for the northern hemisphere. I do think starting our top side without tinkering will help the All Blacks. I expect people like Brodie Retallick, Ma'a Nonu and Ricchie McCaw to step up. In my opinion, Nonu really helped our confidence in the backline last week. Dan Carter will be another focus point. Some kiwis have criticized him (sometimes justified, sometimes ridiculous), but against Tonga he definitely looked like the old Dan. If he can take on the line and look to get those arms free then France should be worried. Guys like Read, Conrad Smith and Julian Savea probably need to really work on themselves during the week, because they've had a quiet tournament. Savea has completed a few opportunities but he's nowhere near his best. I think selecting him over Naholo would be the appropriate selection though.

Of course we're guarded when it comes to the French. We beat them easily in the earlier matches in 2007 and prior to that. They had no right to beat us based on form, but they found a way. In 2011 they made it all the way to the final. I must admit I haven't watched a lot of the Six Nations or anything, so maybe I don't have a full appreciation for just how poor they apparently are. But as New Zealanders, we're going to be somewhat wary. When you feel those losses that they've inflicted in your heart, you bloody remember. Besides, if we expressed any other sentiment people would accuse us of being arrogant.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I just hope nobody breaks Dan Carter. He looks better each game and Racing 92 is set to pay good money for his services.

Other than that I hope for a good game of rugby. With the history of these two teams in RWCs I'm sure it'll live up to what has been an awesome tournament so far!

 

[TRF_heineken]

Is it wrong of me to cheer on certain players in the All Black team but hope they lose the match??

 

[saulan]

Also PSA is wedded to the same broken method that Stuart Lancaster is. Size and defence at almost all costs. But again like Lancaster he's not consistent so you end up with Michalak being mown down in the 10 channel but with Basteraud and Spedding apparently immovable selections.

For me that's why Huget is such a key loss for them. He had the ability to make even a limited game plan work due to his unique abilities. I don't see anyone pulling this French team up to do something different and even if they try, they don't have the personnel with the skills to make it work. Very similar for me to asking George Ford to make a midfield of Burgess and Barritt work. It just won't and can't.

Still, we'll have to wait and see. Stranger things have happened.

To be fair, I am fairly limited in what I can say about the French team over the past four years as I haven't followed the six nations too much while you have more accurate NH insight.

That being said, from what I have seen in this world cup, I have been quite impressed with Spedding, Michalak (wasn't expecting it, thought he had dropped in his form previously and lost his flair), Fofana and Picamoles. As a result I am interested in your comment on Spedding. From my perspective he has been quite good under the high ball, runs hard and adds some vital long penalty points. What has he been doing poorly?

Also, I know they were sterile in attack yesterday, but I feel credit to that needs to also go to Ireland's defence, who are currently sharing the best defensive record of the tournament with Australia. Meanwhile if you look at New Zealand, the only team not to score a try against them was Tonga. So I wouldn't be surprised if we see some French tries in this game. But again, New Zealand could step their defense up in the play-off stages.

 

[wayevs]

No analysis needed all blacks will win .

 

[Yoshimitsu]

To be fair, I am fairly limited in what I can say about the French team over the past four years as I haven't followed the six nations too much while you have more accurate NH insight.

That being said, from what I have seen in this world cup, I have been quite impressed with Spedding, Michalak (wasn't expecting it, thought he had dropped in his form previously and lost his flair), Fofana and Picamoles. As a result I am interested in your comment on Spedding. From my perspective he has been quite good under the high ball, runs hard and adds some vital long penalty points. What has he been doing poorly?

Also, I know they were sterile in attack yesterday, but I feel credit to that needs to also go to Ireland's defence, who are currently sharing the best defensive record of the tournament with Australia. Meanwhile if you look at New Zealand, the only team not to score a try against them was Tonga. So I wouldn't be surprised if we see some French tries in this game. But again, New Zealand could step their defense up in the play-off stages.

Spedding has done nothing poorly, he's a fine but limited player (no shame in that he's done more in the game than i ever will). But the fear that comes from the French does not come from players not doing things poorly. It comes from an indefinable quality! The French even have a saying for it, "je ne sais qois!". Players like Blanco, Sella, Dominici, Castaignede etc. etc. and a personal all time favourite, Clement Poitreneau had it. Spedding hasn't and never can and never will. Sure, he can bomb a kick over from 55 metres, he can run hard and bosh people about and tackle well. But he'll never change a game by doing something so utterly stupendously awesome that you can't believe it has happened. The French seem to feed off this stuff, when one of them gets the feeling, they can suddenly go from ordinary to extraordinary. In my view this threat has been diminishing for some time as coaching structures and the nature of the top14 rewards certain skills over others. Huget was the main proponent in the current set-up. Without him France are functional and in the forwards pretty decent, but there's little to surprise teams. That doesn't mean that dealing with Basteraud is easy! However, you can plan for it. Same goes for Picamoles.


On edit - This could be read as an attack on Scott Spedding and his lack of "Frenchness". It's not that at all. I quite like Spedding's no nonsense approach. PSA would have picked an equally limited indigenous Frenchman if one had been available. It's a triumph of stats over sense / feeling. As barthelemy mentions below. The downfall of the French national side is effectively self inflicted by the coaching set-up.

 

[barthelemy]

Interesting seeing some people rolling out the "it all depends which French team turn up on the day" type stuff (though not as funny as the insanity which is "they lost to the Irish on purpose" stuff). I'd argue this is far less of an issue than at almost anytime in France's history. The coaching team headed by PSA have managed to blunt the French team to a degree I've not witnessed before. They will roll out a better than average scrum and some big lumps in the backs who won't give their only flyer (Fofana) space or enough of the ball to operate in. I watched France give Italy a lesson live and whilst effective, there was nothing special about it. Bosh, Carry, Bosh, Carry, Bosh, Carry. The loss of Huget has left a massive hole for the French as he created space by being different and very good. The All blacks know this game, the Saffers roll it out year after year against them and they generally cope with it. French aren't as good as the South Africans at doing it.

I see very little chance of the French beating the All Blacks. The only reason I don't say "none at all" is that it is still sport and stranger things have happened. I can however see a relatively comfortable victory for New Zealand.

I think you are spot on, we have an absolutely poor team and yesterday match confirmed it for the ones who still were in doubt of this reality.

Ireland played Ireland game yesterday and we had 3 more days compare to them to counter that game but nothing has happened, we just played in defense, kept the boat floating for 1 half then drown in the second.

We will defo loose this time against ABs, I do not see any positive things from yesterday match. In 2007, we lost against Argentina in the last pool game and Laporte was the coach. Not sure the players were really better than today but at least, they were ashamed of their defeat against Argentina (at the time - we have seen after that Argentina became very good and it was not a random defeat) and Laporte knew how to motivate players.

This time, it is poor for everything, PSA has no charism, there are no strong leaders in the french team and the irish defeat was not shameful, it was almost planned by a lot of people.