[2015 RWC] Semi Final 1: South Africa vs. New Zealand (24/10/2015)

[squirrel]

No, I must of missed that.......hey Squirrel, let's start up a rumour aye? because that way we'll feel better?

Let's pretend that he knocked it on after he knocked off Louw's head with a machete ok?

Not a rumour but a genuine question, I thought I saw a double knock on before the ball was passed to Carter.

 

[munstermuffin]

McCaw issue is a non incident it'd be madness if he cited.

 

[Sker]

Wow guys. Chill out, what is it about RWC that makes everyone so antsy and keen for a fight?

 

[tompaton7]

Meh. Wouldnt bet on that, SA are a different beast compared to ARG and AUS.

No they're not. They are extremely limited and that was proven today. Never looked like scoring, just like last week against Wales. Cuthbert practically had to serve that try up on a plate for du Preez coming off his wing. Apart from that, they never once threatened because they are one dimensional, which at the end of the day is what has cost them. Where has the backline creativity of 2013-2014 been? Kriel and de Allende absolutely scorched the ABs earlier this year and yet apart from a wee break at the start, they never looked like doing anything - Habana and Pietersen also barely got a touch. Argentina or Australia would have kicked the goals and would have had the creativity to score a try or two. And Australia's defense would have been as good as South Africa's.

Like I said, the All Blacks have got their poor game out of their system and are now all set to win the final, unless either of those two teams play the games of their lives.

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The thing you dont seem to take into account is no other team in the world would of beat the Boks in this game tonight.

I dont see how you think Arg in particular would score tries against that defence. Australia maybe one but I dont even think they'd of got over 10 points against that bok team tonight.

I think that's down to opinion to be honest. Argentina have been scintillating, what's to suggest they wouldn't have scored? And what's to suggest that those two teams would have been as poorly disciplined as the All Blacks tonight? That was the only thing that kept the Boks in the game, lets be honest. Both teams also have a better scrum than the ABs. It would have been a completely different kind of game. Different teams with different strengths.

 

[chikwa chibwe]

Managed a media blackout for 12 hours so just watched the game.
Best team won - 2 tries to 0.
SA never looked like scoring. You can't win a game by trying not to lose.
Thought SA youngsters showed some promise - De Allende and Kriel made some good breaks - with experience they will improve I'm sure.

Thank god AB's won. If they had lost scoring two converted tries & 2 goal kicks against 7 goal kicks we would never have heard the end of it on here.

And rightly so

 

[chikwa chibwe]

No they're not. They are extremely limited and that was proven today. Never looked like scoring, just like last week against Wales. Cuthbert practically had to serve that try up on a plate for du Preez coming off his wing. Apart from that, they never once threatened because they are one dimensional, which at the end of the day is what has cost them. Where has the backline creativity of 2013-2014 been? Kriel and de Allende absolutely scorched the ABs earlier this year and yet apart from a wee break at the start, they never looked like doing anything - Habana and Pietersen also barely got a touch. Argentina or Australia would have kicked the goals and would have had the creativity to score a try or two. And Australia's defense would have been as good as South Africa's.

Like I said, the All Blacks have got their poor game out of their system and are now all set to win the final, unless either of those two teams play the games of their lives.

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I think that's down to opinion to be honest. Argentina have been scintillating, what's to suggest they wouldn't have scored? And what's to suggest that those two teams would have been as poorly disciplined as the All Blacks tonight? That was the only thing that kept the Boks in the game, lets be honest. Both teams also have a better scrum than the ABs. It would have been a completely different kind of game. Different teams with different strengths.

Great Defence by the boks . I did however note that the AB's had opportunities out wide to create one on One. I ll back Milner skudder & Savea to beat any defender one on one. Some of All blacks I'll discipline was forced by South African pressure. To me the scrum woes could be down to concentration. It sounds simple but they held their in at some scrums and even had the boks on the back foot,

 

[Kiwi_]

Well that went nearly as I thought. South Africa were never going to have enough to beat us. It would have been criminal if they won the game on the back of that performance. We can be our own worse enemies with some of the needless penalties we gave away that allowed a very average team to stay in the match. At least we got that performance and win out of the way so now we're off to the big dance which I have no doubt we will win as well.

I felt we squandered a lot of opportunities, Carter kicked at stupid times, a pointless strategy when we were in good attacking positions and players like Savea and Skudder on the wings, we don't need to bring an NRL aspect to the game, especially given how good Willie Le Roux and Habana are at covering.

One thing the Bokkes did well was defend, other than that they were quite simply terrible.

Whitelock has to be on the shortlist for IRB player of the year, he's been incredible this year and tournament, what a player.

Ben Smith again puts in a MotM, if he doesn't get IRB player of the year, then it's a complete farce, Ben is hands down the best player in the world currently, followed by Sam Whitelock and Skudder. The other candidate would of course be David Pocock, but that will only be if Australia win the RWC, but that's not going to happen.

 

[Pampas]

Well that went nearly as I thought. South Africa were never going to have enough to beat us. It would have been criminal if they won the game on the back of that performance. We can be our own worse enemies with some of the needless penalties we gave away that allowed a very average team to stay in the match. At least we got that performance and win out of the way so now we're off to the big dance which I have no doubt we will win as well.

I felt we squandered a lot of opportunities, Carter kicked at stupid times, a pointless strategy when we were in good attacking positions and players like Savea and Skudder on the wings, we don't need to bring an NRL aspect to the game, especially given how good Willie Le Roux and Habana are at covering.

One thing the Bokkes did well was defend, other than that they were quite simply terrible.

Whitelock has to be on the shortlist for IRB player of the year, he's been incredible this year and tournament, what a player.

Ben Smith again puts in a MotM, if he doesn't get IRB player of the year, then it's a complete farce, Ben is hands down the best player in the world currently, followed by Sam Whitelock and Skudder. The other candidate would of course be David Pocock, but that will only be if Australia win the RWC, but that's not going to happen.

Agustin Creevy should be also considered among the best 5.

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Vamossss Pumas Carajo!!!!!
Anthem's time.

 

[Kiwi_]

Agustin Creevy should be also considered among the best 5.

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Vamossss Pumas Carajo!!!!!
Anthem's time.

Nah.

 

[nzlizard]

Cooky, calm down man. You and Bo are right. My mistake. Not coming in from the side. However, it was deliberate and off the ball.

Man you are so desperate to pin something on McCaw aren't you? why not sell a story about how he stole your milk money then.

1st of all he is offside and it is deliberate, anyone who knows anything about rugby could see the ball was out, why do you need 2 other people to tell you the most basic laws of the game? Once you got burned on your lack of rugby knowledge you still claim it was deliberate.

Anyone who has watched rugby knows McCaw is not like this.

You made yourself look so stupid not even knowing the basic rules of the game, best you give up why you are so far behind.

Well that went nearly as I thought. South Africa were never going to have enough to beat us. It would have been criminal if they won the game on the back of that performance. We can be our own worse enemies with some of the needless penalties we gave away that allowed a very average team to stay in the match. At least we got that performance and win out of the way so now we're off to the big dance which I have no doubt we will win as well.

Whitelock has to be on the shortlist for IRB player of the year, he's been incredible this year and tournament, what a player.

Ben Smith again puts in a MotM, if he doesn't get IRB player of the year, then it's a complete farce, Ben is hands down the best player in the world currently, followed by Sam Whitelock and Skudder. The other candidate would of course be David Pocock, but that will only be if Australia win the RWC, but that's not going to happen.

Saying that SA were never going to beat us is not true, they were one penalty away from it, had we done something stupid in the last 10 mins it would have been a whole different story.

Can't see Whitelock being on the shortlist, his season hasn't been anywhere near that good, look at when Retallick won it and Whitelock is nowhere near that level, not even same planet.

NMS won't make it either, sure has had a great debut year but not scored enough tries, played enough minutes.

Pocock deserves to be on the list, remember player of the year is about what you do as an individual, not team results. Remember 2011 and Dusautoir winning it?

For me the only NZ'ers I could see making a shortlist would be McCaw, Nonu and Ben Smith based on the last 12 months.

 

[Kiwi_]

Couldn't disagree more. Whitelock is not only on Retalicks planet but you could arguable say he is on his own ahead of Retallick this season. He's won a lot of ball, defended excellently, got to the breakdowns with speed and has by far been NZ's best lock this year and has been very well rounded for a long time now and often underrated.

And I will say it again, SA had no chance to win this game, the only way we were going to lose it was to gift it to them, which we nearly did.

 

[nzlizard]

Couldn't disagree more. Whitelock is not only on Retalicks planet but you could arguable say he is on his own ahead of Retallick this season. He's won a lot of ball, defended excellently, got to the breakdowns with speed and has by far been NZ's best lock this year and has been very well rounded for a long time now and often underrated.

And I will say it again, SA had no chance to win this game, the only way we were going to lose it was to gift it to them, which we nearly did.

I was not talking about this year, when Retallick won player of the year he had a season that was 3 times better what Whitelock has had this year, yup this year Sam has been better this year, however Retallick was injured for a long period. This would be the only year in the last 3 where Whitelock has been the better of the two.

 

[PacDuran]

McCaw issue is a non incident it'd be madness if he cited.

I thought Read and Conrad Smith both hit saffers with very suspect high tackles in the first 10 mins could both have been off. I saw a replay of the McCaw "incident" and cannot see why anyone would even bring it up.

Kieran Read is woefully out of form, a total liability at this stage. Also Sam Cane does nothing but make big knock ons haha, he certainly isn't the heir to McCaw, and NZ will have a big dip in form if this guy gets regular starts at 7. They should bring in Vito for Read and drop Cane from the bench.

 

[Mcfadden]

SA gave us a fair few gifts themselves though. Losing that many lineouts against the best side in the world at a semi final? Fouri de Prez not being subbed? Failing to utilise key members of their backline? Don't get me wrong, we were good. Bloody good. But never going to win? There was always a chance. It was close, it ended up raining, an injury here or there. I actually thought we were done for when SA got into our 22 in the last few minutes. Can't believe they butchered it.

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Kieran Read is woefully out of form, a total liability at this stage. Also Sam Cane does nothing but make big knock ons haha, he certainly isn't the heir to McCaw, and NZ will have a big dip in form if this guy gets regular starts at 7. They should bring in Vito for Read and drop Cane from the bench.

Fair enough about Read, but is that honestly your assessment about Cane? After one match? Knock ons happen. McCaw has made plenty. It's just that the context in which they were made happened to be the big stage. Cane has plenty of stats that show he is a good player. Actually, better than McCaw in a couple of areas. If you want to write him off that's all good though. Do so at your peril I guess.

 

[chikwa chibwe]

Well that went nearly as I thought. South Africa were never going to have enough to beat us. It would have been criminal if they won the game on the back of that performance. We can be our own worse enemies with some of the needless penalties we gave away that allowed a very average team to stay in the match. At least we got that performance and win out of the way so now we're off to the big dance which I have no doubt we will win as well.

I felt we squandered a lot of opportunities, Carter kicked at stupid times, a pointless strategy when we were in good attacking positions and players like Savea and Skudder on the wings, we don't need to bring an NRL aspect to the game, especially given how good Willie Le Roux and Habana are at covering.

One thing the Bokkes did well was defend, other than that they were quite simply terrible.

Whitelock has to be on the shortlist for IRB player of the year, he's been incredible this year and tournament, what a player.

Ben Smith again puts in a MotM, if he doesn't get IRB player of the year, then it's a complete farce, Ben is hands down the best player in the world currently, followed by Sam Whitelock and Skudder. The other candidate would of course be David Pocock, but that will only be if Australia win the RWC, but that's not going to happen.

Thoroughly objective ! But I do agree

 

[Kiwi_]

I was not talking about this year, when Retallick won player of the year he had a season that was 3 times better what Whitelock has had this year, yup this year Sam has been better this year, however Retallick was injured for a long period. This would be the only year in the last 3 where Whitelock has been the better of the two.

So whats your point mate? I've said Sam has been one of the best players this YEAR, regardless of how good Retallick was in another season, he's been easily the best lock in the world this year and deserves a short list nomination, don't know how you can argue against that and quite honestly struggling to understand what point you're trying to get across.

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I thought Read and Conrad Smith both hit saffers with very suspect high tackles in the first 10 mins could both have been off. I saw a replay of the McCaw "incident" and cannot see why anyone would even bring it up.

Kieran Read is woefully out of form, a total liability at this stage. Also Sam Cane does nothing but make big knock ons haha, he certainly isn't the heir to McCaw, and NZ will have a big dip in form if this guy gets regular starts at 7. They should bring in Vito for Read and drop Cane from the bench.

I agree wee freckly faced red haired turd, I hope Richie stays around for a year or two just to blood a few players and stabilize the team. I know we need to move on a look towards the future, but I think his presence in the squad is important to get into the new recruits, especially with the amount of old heads we're going to lose.

 

[PacDuran]

So whats your point mate? I've said Sam has been one of the best players this YEAR, regardless of how good Retallick was in another season, he's been easily the best lock in the world this year and deserves a short list nomination, don't know how you can argue against that and quite honestly struggling to understand what point you're trying to get across.

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I agree wee freckly faced red haired turd, I hope Richie stays around for a year or two just to blood a few players and stabilize the team. I know we need to move on a look towards the future, but I think his presence in the squad is important to get into the new recruits, especially with the amount of old heads we're going to lose.

I love your terms of endearment. A mark of respect to your forebears I suppose! Seems though this team could easily stay together for 1 or 2 more years, thus is the level of their skills. Though in all likelihood NZ are about to face about 800 caps walk out the door. SBW will be off fannying around playing another code, so you're down to Savea, Smith, Retallick, Whitelock, Vito, Barrett, Ben Smith and Dane Coles to for, the spin of your post retirements reconstruction team. Not bad at all.

 

[nzlizard]

So whats your point mate? I've said Sam has been one of the best players this YEAR, regardless of how good Retallick was in another season, he's been easily the best lock in the world this year and deserves a short list nomination, don't know how you can argue against that and quite honestly struggling to understand what point you're trying to get across.

IMO Sam has had a good year but not good enough to make the player of the year shortlist.

You seem to not comprehend so I will try make it simple

When Retallick won player of the year he was easily the standout NZ player and world player he was superman around the park, people were talking about him all over the place, this year Whitelock has not been superman around the park and people are not talking him up in any comparison to Retallick.

Retallick won in 2014, Whitelocks 2015 season is no where near the level that Retallick achieved when he won in 2014 so if you use that as a benchmark for what it takes to win then Whitelock does not meet the benchmark, while he may be one of the best form locks this year it doesn't mean he is one of the 5 best players.

Like I said. McCaw, Nonu or Ben Smith should make the list before Whitelock, as would Pocock, Foley. All these players have contributed more to the teams success that Whitelock has.

Man your such an arrogant little man when people disagree with you.

 

[chikwa chibwe]

I love your terms of endearment. A mark of respect to your forebears I suppose! Seems though this team could easily stay together for 1 or 2 more years, thus is the level of their skills. Though in all likelihood NZ are about to face about 800 caps walk out the door. SBW will be off fannying around playing another code, so you're down to Savea, Smith, Retallick, Whitelock, Vito, Barrett, Ben Smith and Dane Coles to for, the spin of your post retirements reconstruction team. Not bad at all.

Barrett is second choice behind cruden . Lima Sapoaga is also in the mix. All 3 scrum halves, Aron smith,TJ& Kerr Barlow .the 2 locks whitlelock & retallick , Dan Coles & the third choice hooker, all wingers and full backs will still be available In short not bad at all. Centre pairing and flankers is where suitable replacements need to be found. Relying on Read as the only no 8 has to be looked at with concern !

 

[Kiwi_]

IMO Sam has had a good year but not good enough to make the player of the year shortlist.

You seem to not comprehend so I will try make it simple

When Retallick won player of the year he was easily the standout NZ player and world player he was superman around the park, people were talking about him all over the place, this year Whitelock has not been superman around the park and people are not talking him up in any comparison to Retallick.

Retallick won in 2014, Whitelocks 2015 season is no where near the level that Retallick achieved when he won in 2014 so if you use that as a benchmark for what it takes to win then Whitelock does not meet the benchmark, while he may be one of the best form locks this year it doesn't mean he is one of the 5 best players.

Like I said. McCaw, Nonu or Ben Smith should make the list before Whitelock, as would Pocock, Foley. All these players have contributed more to the teams success that Whitelock has.

Man your such an arrogant little man when people disagree with you.

Sorry, but I still don't get your angle. I never said he should WIN it, I said he should receive a nomination, Retallicks form that year was freakish so stop using it as a bench mark. You can still have a season like Sam has had and get a shortlist nomination, he has been excellent and worthy.

You seem to not be able to comprehend what I've said in black and white right in front of your computer and instead have to refer to Retallicks IRB award winning season as if no lock should ever be nominated again.

I'm done discussing this, this board people always go around in stupid non-existent circles and try nit-pick and argue the most bullsh*t things, hence why I'm short and clear now, can't be bothered fanning around talking nonsense with people who twist posts and create arguments from nothing.