[2015 RWC] Semi Final 1: South Africa vs. New Zealand (24/10/2015)

[nzlizard]

Sorry, but I still don't get your angle. I never said he should WIN it, I said he should receive a nomination, Retallicks form that year was freakish so stop using it as a bench mark. You can still have a season like Sam has had and get a shortlist nomination, he has been excellent and worthy.

You seem to not be able to comprehend what I've said in black and white right in front of your computer and instead have to refer to Retallicks IRB award winning season as if no lock should ever be nominated again.

I'm done discussing this, this board people always go around in stupid non-existent circles and try nit-pick and argue the most bullsh*t things, hence why I'm short and clear now, can't be bothered fanning around talking nonsense with people who twist posts and create arguments from nothing.

And I said he shouldn't receive a nomination based what I have seen and the list of better players this season.

In reality you are the one who argues with anyone who has a different opinion from you, seen it all across the forums for months now. Everyone sees it dude.

 

[austingtir]

Barrett is second choice behind cruden . Lima Sapoaga is also in the mix. All 3 scrum halves, Aron smith,TJ& Kerr Barlow .the 2 locks whitlelock & retallick , Dan Coles & the third choice hooker, all wingers and full backs will still be available In short not bad at all. Centre pairing and flankers is where suitable replacements need to be found. Relying on Read as the only no 8 has to be looked at with concern !

On Read next year I think Brad Shields and Akira Ioane should be in the team just for that and they can battle it out. Akira's still a bit young but he's by far got the most potential for long term playing 6 or 8 for us. Akira is actually 1.94 meters tall aswell and Read is 1.93.

I honestly think Akira should be groomed as an 8 rather than a 6 and Shields at 6.

 

[TobesHodges]

My World Player shortlist would be:

Nehe Milner-Scudder
David Pocock
Ben Smith
Ian Henderson
Waisake Naholo

 

[nzlizard]

On Read next year I think Brad Shields and Akira Ioane should be in the team just for that and they can battle it out. Akira's still a bit young but he's by far got the most potential for long term playing 6 or 8 for us. Akira is actually 1.94 meters tall aswell and Read is 1.93.

I honestly think Akira should be groomed as an 8 rather than a 6 and Shields at 6.

Was thinking Ioane at 8 and Savea at 6.

 

[Scrum Bum]

If we're talking future loosies, don't count out Elliot Dixon, Jordan Taufua, and possibly Steven Luatua could make a renaissance. I think we will have trouble filling McCaw's boots if Cane is not up to the task. I am real biased but James Lentjes looks like a decent young pilferering openside. Savea is really good though. I have a friend who is a diehard Canes fan and he reckons out of the two Savea bros Ardie has the higher ceiling.

 

[austingtir]

Was thinking Ioane at 8 and Savea at 6.

I still cant get past Saveas brain explosions. And I think having him and his brother in the AB's wouldnt be good for either of them they act like a couple of 13 year old kids on social media.

Shields was hugely impressive this year if he can back that up in super rugby again he'll be pretty hard to go past.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

if Cane is not up to the task

I think that's a big "if" though. Cane has looked superb, for the most part. He's had a couple of games where he's not played up to his usual standard, but to put the performances he has in, at such a young age and in such an attritional and prestigious position...

 

[nzlizard]

I think that's a big "if" though. Cane has looked superb, for the most part. He's had a couple of games where he's not played up to his usual standard, but to put the performances he has in, at such a young age and in such an attritional and prestigious position...

Yeah and if anything he looks a bit rusty from not having played enough minutes, once he plays week in week out we will see him at his best.

 

[ABs2011]

If we're talking future loosies, don't count out Elliot Dixon, Jordan Taufua, and possibly Steven Luatua could make a renaissance. I think we will have trouble filling McCaw's boots if Cane is not up to the task. I am real biased but James Lentjes looks like a decent young pilferering openside. Savea is really good though. I have a friend who is a diehard Canes fan and he reckons out of the two Savea bros Ardie has the higher ceiling.

I'm not convinced that come the end of the RWC we will have seen the end of McCaws playing career as an AB.

There are two things we can probably all agree on:
1) McCaw is still an international quality player worthy of the Black Jersey
2) 2016 is effectively the start of a new four year campaign for 2019.

With that being the case, and the ABs losing the experience of Mealamu, Woodcock, DC, Nonu, and C Smith, then I wonder if they might want to hold on to McCaw for one more year in that Kevein Mealamu role. Which as I understand it is largely a mentoring role with a few minutes chucked in at the ned of each game. It's a bit of a long shot I guess and would take some serious changes in particular McCaw would have to be ok with that massive change in roles: No captaincy, no starting spot, and a different focus... But it could be really benefical to the team moving forward.

They may well just want a clean slate post RWC 2015, but if we win, I would not be at all suprised if we see McCaw rack up some more test caps.

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I still cant get past Saveas brain explosions. And I think having him and his brother in the AB's wouldnt be good for either of them they act like a couple of 13 year old kids on social media.

Shields was hugely impressive this year if he can back that up in super rugby again he'll be pretty hard to go past.

Yup, his atheletic game is second to none right now. But his Rugby IQ leaves a lot to be desired. That dumb arse chip and chase with 5 min to go in the final when Wellington were up by 6 inside the HB 22 was a brain exposion which IMO was one of a couple stupid things Wellington did which probably cost them the game.

 

[InsaneAsylum]

I'm not convinced that come the end of the RWC we will have seen the end of McCaws playing career as an AB.

There are two things we can probably all agree on:
1) McCaw is still an international quality player worthy of the Black Jersey
2) 2016 is effectively the start of a new four year campaign for 2019.

With that being the case, and the ABs losing the experience of Mealamu, Woodcock, DC, Nonu, and C Smith, then I wonder if they might want to hold on to McCaw for one more year in that Kevein Mealamu role. Which as I understand it is largely a mentoring role with a few minutes chucked in at the ned of each game. It's a bit of a long shot I guess and would take some serious changes in particular McCaw would have to be ok with that massive change in roles: No captaincy, no starting spot, and a different focus... But it could be really benefical to the team moving forward.

They may well just want a clean slate post RWC 2015, but if we win, I would not be at all suprised if we see McCaw rack up some more test caps.

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Yup, his atheletic game is second to none right now. But his Rugby IQ leaves a lot to be desired. That dumb arse chip and chase with 5 min to go in the final when Wellington were up by 6 inside the HB 22 was a brain exposion which IMO was one of a couple stupid things Wellington did which probably cost them the game.

That's a fair assumption re. McCaw as I can see him playing on to 150+ for the reasons you mention, however he'd have to be contracted to a super rugby team wouldn't he, and what's the status of his contract with the crusaders? I guess he could always sign a sneaky contract with them in a week or so time.

McCaw is a pretty loyal bloke, he's kiwi and Canterbury through and through. I would be extremely surprised if he went to another franchise.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Congratulations New Zealand. The better team won!

It was an epic test match! I was on the edge of my seat the whole game.

Won't say anything negative, because there is nothing negative to say. I absolutely loved every second of the match.

I will be backing the All Blacks in the final!

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

youd also be served well by actually trying to play constructive rugby. First 2 minutes of the game you looked very good shifting it, then basically ignored the backs the rest of the game. It must be frustrating as in Super rugby the SA teams play some great running rugby.

Personally I thought he stumbled and took Skudder out on the way down no real issue just one of those s**t happens" moments as for the McCaw incident I think they would be hard pushed to turn that into anything either, it just looks as though he is following the ball.

Still what do I know as it seems these days with rugby you have fill out an incident report form for every tackle so maybe he didn't have his high vis vest and hard hat on at the time of impact.

As for the game, I am a little disappointed in South Africa to be honest as they are a excellent team being wasted trying to milk penalties from the most uninspired form of rugby known to man, sure defense wins games but I am not sure boring the opposition and spectators into submission is doing anything for world rugby.

TBF I don't think many test team will be playing much ball in hand rugby with 30% of the territory in a RWC SF. Our line-out and lack of exit strategy really let us down (and NZ put immense pressure on us there). Also, NZ's defense was immense (96% and that doesn't reflect the quality) so its difficult to argue that we didn't play the right type of game its just we didn't have the territory to be in a position to make it count for a win. We played to our strengths and came up short. I have no doubt that if we went in to play the type of game everyoe wants us to play we'd have played right into NZ

Good:
- Dan Carter's kicking and it is remarkable he has played so many minutes but stayed injury-free
- South Africa played really well in patches and dominated certain facets of the game from time to time, especially the breakdown.
- Victor Matfield played his last game.
- Was a tight game contested by two very even teams.

Bad:
- I didn't see much attacking play from the Boks backline. No real putting phases together, offloads, line breaks
- Maybe it is time to bring Coles closer to the rucks. Just a suggestion.
- The ref was maybe a bit too "card-happy" but he did a good job of policing "round the neck" clean outs.

Maybe:
- It is too late but I can't help but think Fekitoa/Messam should've got more minutes
- Give Faf de Klerk a chance?
- We can ship Chris Rattue north and he can buddy up with Stephen Jones

I changed the first but "AMEN!!!!" to the second highlighted bit.

I have to say the SAs were very gracious in defeat, both the players and fans. It's a real credit to them all. It seems as well most if not all of the players seem to have a genuine mutual respect.

Well done SA on a pretty gritty performance. It very nearly went your way. I feel for u guys that you came so close without getting the desired result.

Good stuff to the ABs. They showed a toughness and composure in that game that was something to be proud of. Not a heap of wonderful individual performances, but a fantastic team effort.

Can't wait for the final!!

Luckily we've had a lot of practice the last year and a half.


On a seperate note I don't know where these ratings come from below. According to this guy SA should've won;
http://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/story/_...land-player-ratings-rugby-world-cup-semifinal

 

[WaterboySA]

Congrats AB's, you deserved the win. it was never going to be a game full of tries. To the Bokke, you did us proud. You played the RIGHT type of rugby for a semi.It almost worked. Respect to the AB's and their coach. And respect to the ref, had a great game, did what he had to do and nothing more. All we can ask from refs!!

 

[sharkfan]

Was a typical SA?/NZ game full of tension, drama and lots of physicality.The Boks showed some fighting spirit in nearly toppling the All Blacks without having to score a try.The turning point was when Du Preez kicked a grubber for JP to chase and Carter had to kick it out. The Boks were inside NZ's 22 and had a line-out,but unfortunately butchered the throw-in. All Blacks were out of jail and went on to squeak home.

Congrats New Zealand, cannot see Matilda Waltzing past you in the final.

 

[Larksea]

bizarre game, I don't think you will see many games like this where one team dominated throughout yet only won by 2 points. Considering the possession, territory, meters made and domination of the contact area & lineouts the AB's had it should have been a simple victory.

Early port of the game the Boks did pressure the rucks really well, but after a while the AB's responded and protected a bit better to the point where the AB's completely dominated the contact area around the rucks and 1 pass out. at one stage statistics for gain line flashed up and it was 14% for SA and 48% for NZ. we were completely dominating that area getting over the gain line almost at will and smashing the boks behind it yet went away from it just as the Boks started to really tire.

genuinely I think the ABs game management apart from the last few min was poor. The grubbers that constantly went out should have been fixed before half time and keeping the ball in the scrums while habanna was in the bin was simply stupid. WTF were read & McCaw thinking at that stage? attacked Habannas wing constantly then when he was in the bin we keep it in a scrum and eventually give them 3 points?

Some of the discipline was poor from the AB's it was nothing really serious, some tough calls but the AB's should have been smarter and not got themselves in that position. Kaino for his lazy kick and read for going in the side of a lineout which was a 50/50 call, on another day he may have got away with it but in this sort of game it was needless. The Boks never really threatened so their was absolutely no need to give penalties like that away.

The Kaino card probably did influence the game, he was our best on show at that stage. The 3 points they got and the 10min being a man up at that stage hampered NZ's traditional strength before and after half time.

but I guess I shouldn't complaint too much. To come from !5 points down with a man in the bin at half time to shut the springboks out in the 2nd half was a good effort. I do think the AB's played the scoreboard more than anything else in that 2nd half. They got the points they needed to get ahead then worked on protecting it by trying to pin the boks into their own territory. I do think if the AB's needed more points in that 2nd half they could have got them by just holding the ball like they did through the middle part of the game.

Ben Smith was an absolute standout, IMO he should get a 2nd nomination for player of the year.

Carters drop goal also proved important but I feel like if we had just held the ball we could have scored more tries.... how many did we kick away? 6-7 times in possession in Springbok territory? We didnt get enough reward for that posession given away.

Brutal battle though, alot of talk about how NZ has an advantage with an extra day rest before the final but we need it more. This game was far more brutal than the AU vs ARG game...

 

[ABs2011]

Yup, I think by the end of the first half I had counted at least 6 maybe 7 occassions where NZ wasted attacking (inside the 22) possesion by kicking the ball away. In their defense for the most part you could see what they were trying to do, but the execution was appauling. In a couple cases though it was absolutely aimless, kicker and chasers just not on the same page. IF we are going to persist with that everyone needs to be on the same page and the execution must be a lot better. Attacking possesion in the final will be priceless, we cant afford to waste all those opportunites. I'd prefer we hold on to the ball.

As for the scrum incident you pointed out, yes I was absolutely fuming when that happened. Whatr on earth they were thinking there I do not know. Our scrum is OK but it is not good enough to hold onto like that and try and milk penalties. Hopefuly this is something they will re-evalutate in the week to come.

The other thing I was pretty dissapointed about was the apparent attempt/desire to go for the drop goal with 1 minute left. At that moment we were comfortably holding possession, and had erased half the time left with tight forward play. Going for a drop goal could have been, and almost was disasterous. But the thing that got me was that the best case scenario from a drop goal attemp would have resulted in a 5 point lead with time on the clock still. SA would have had a massive chance to regain possesion off the kick off and push for a win. For me the brains were serously lacking there. I was actually sitting there watching hoping that if he did in fact take the drop goal that he would miss!! The ABs should have just tried to grind it out. At that stage of the game I think the Boks were too tired to cause a TO and we would have won without any of the stresses of having to defend again. DC needs to step up there and use his brain a more.

For me they are the only negatives though. The rest as you say above was a very dominant performance that was not reflected on the score board. Given that, we should probably be pretty happy moving forward to the final!

 

[Kiwi_]

That NRL styled kicking from Carter had me swearing at Carter the whole of the first half. What the hell were we thinking? I get the territory game, but you don't need to play a territory game when we're already in their bloody 22!! Make them tackle, wear them down.. What a brain fart that tactic was.


I do think we're going to play a strong kicking game vs Australia, we will back ourselves to win a lot of their ball, which we will. I just hope we keep making them tackle and tackle and wear them down early. We won't be getting isolated either and I think Kaino is going to have a big physical game.

 

[ABs2011]

That NRL styled kicking from Carter had me swearing at the TV the whole of the first half. What the hell were we thinking? I get the territory game, but you don't need to play a territory game when we're already in their bloody 22!! Make them tackle, wear them down.. What a brain fart that tactic was.


I do think we're going to play a strong kicking game vs Australia, we will back ourselves to win a lot of their ball, which we will. I just hope we keep making them tackle and tackle and wear them down early. We won't be getting isolated either and I think Kaino is going to have a big physical game.

It's not territory, its trying to put the ball in behind the line for the outsides to run onto when the SA outsides are pushing up quickly and cramping the ABs outside space. There is a logic to what they were doing and on one occassion it very nearly led to a try. That being said if you cant execute then its a real problem. I was the same as you mate, swearing at the TV, I got what they were trying to do though, I just didnt like the tactic! Give it a crack a once or twice by all means but 6 or 7 times in one half? My god!

 

[smartcooky]

I do think we're going to play a strong kicking game vs Australia, we will back ourselves to win a lot of their ball, which we will. I just hope we keep making them tackle and tackle and wear them down early. We won't be getting isolated either and I think Kaino is going to have a big physical game.

If they kick into the backfield, they will have to kick accurately with a bloody efficient chase, getting the likes of NMS and Ben Smith up there to challenge for every high ball. If Folau is injured, it might be an idea to target him early to put him under some pressure.

Whatever they do, they MUST NOT kick it into open space in front of their back three, or worse, kick it down their throats. You do that to the Wallabies, and they wont kick it back like NH teams do, they will run it straight back at you. Kicks to space need to turn the back three around. Otherwise, kick it out, and be prepared to sacrifice some territorial gain by putting it in the stands so they can't take a quick throw in, then back our line-out to contest. The Wallaby line-out has not been all that flash at this RWC, and I think this is a part of the game where we can really put pressure on.

We also need to combat the speed of their chasers at kick-off and restart. One way to do that is to have a lifting pod deep so that it negates their speed; they will sprint to get to the receiver, but won;t be able to tackle him if he's lifted in the air.

 

[Kiwi_]

If they kick into the backfield, they will have to kick accurately with a bloody efficient chase, getting the likes of NMS and Ben Smith up there to challenge for every high ball. If Folau is injured, it might be an idea to target him early to put him under some pressure.

Whatever they do, they MUST NOT kick it into open space in front of their back three, or worse, kick it down their throats. You do that to the Wallabies, and they wont kick it back like NH teams do, they will run it straight back at you. Kicks to space need to turn the back three around. Otherwise, kick it out, and be prepared to sacrifice some territorial gain by putting it in the stands so they can't take a quick throw in, then back our line-out to contest. The Wallaby line-out has not been all that flash at this RWC, and I think this is a part of the game where we can really put pressure on.

We also need to combat the speed of their chasers at kick-off and restart. One way to do that is to have a lifting pod deep so that it negates their speed; they will sprint to get to the receiver, but won;t be able to tackle him if he's lifted in the air.

Yeah, that's exactly what I was getting at, you just elaborated far better than what I did