[2015 Six Nations] Ireland vs England (Round 3)

[goodNumber10]

Don't care what Gatland thinks, Biggar deserved to go on that Lions tour ahead of Farrell.

Preistland was the 1st chocie welsh fly half at the time, he was flitting between Biggar and Priestland so it was unlikely he coudl take his secodn chocie 10 when Sexton was the best 10 int he world and Farrell had just had a break through season with England.

I like biggar, i would have taken him over Farrell as well

 

[Peat]

I feel Goode may be getting hard done by here...he did a decent but uninspiring job. He was part of the problem but by no means the cause of it.

But also, screw you waddling Alex Goode!

The problem today, or at least one of them, was that we lost the kicking battle. Alex Goode was a pretty central part of that. His positioning was excellent but his kick return was abysmal. At no point did either his kicking or running give us any hope of gaining a good platform from which to play.

Ok, no point is probably hyperbole, but I can't remember him doing anything notably good on the kick return off the top of my head.

Also, his inability to hit the line and get over the gainline like Brown is a big negative.

We're interpreting what they said differently, you see it as them comparing the sides, I see it as them taking England in isolation. We'll need clarity from them to continue the argument, if there is one I think we'd probably agree once we know the context.

But you* can't take England in isolation if you are saying that England cannot succeed by doing X if Y are also doing X and succeeding. One can point out that England are suffering by not doing X, but to say it cannot be done is just balls. Pretty much every argument on the internet that involves people talking about real opensides is balls, so I don't want to bother, but the logic here is getting super tenuous.

*general you, not you specifically cmac.

 

[yaboyjj]

For me, the positions with the most question marks over them remain no.6 and no.12 (captain obvious)
Haskell promises lot's, but at the end of the day he seems a bit 'Jack of all trades- master of none', line-out is a bit rubbish at the moment because there are no options in the backrow, his carrying is pretty decent- but not anything special and his ruck work is still a bit suspect (giving away a few penalities) overall I just feel that the England backrow is full of bulky players, where line-out and speed in the loose has been sacrificed, and yet the ball carrying remains nothing of much note :/
If this is the current situation, then I cannot fathom why Ewers is not involved- the line-out won't get any worse for his involvement and he is much more powerful in ball carrying and clearouts than Haskell. I still think we are in a position where the pack is not specialised enough and it would improve if there were specialists involved like Kvesic who is quick and good at the breakdown- then offset the lack of carrying with a specialist ball carrier.
I surmise that the back row is not balanced, and never will be unless either we get a good line-out operator at 8 (ditto Hughes) allowing Ewers and Robshaw/Kvesic to play or Robshaw is dropped for Wood/Croft then Kvesic at 7. There, I said it.

At 12, Burrell will never be international standard because he doesn't make good decisions under pressure and doesn't offset these by dominating any other part of play (Tuilagi-esque carrying or really good distribution). TBH I'm not sure he'll even be first choice at Northampton for much longer. 36, although also making mistakes, does at least compensate somewhat with some potentially int standard qualities of distribution and kicking (still unsure though). Time to roll the dice imo, and either give 36 a few games or bring in one of Slade/Eastmond/Tuilagi or some other young whippersnapper (Hill/Stephenson?)

 

[goodNumber10]

The problem today, or at least one of them, was that we lost the kicking battle. Alex Goode was a pretty central part of that. His positioning was excellent but his kick return was abysmal. At no point did either his kicking or running give us any hope of gaining a good platform from which to play.

Ok, no point is probably hyperbole, but I can't remember him doing anything notably good on the kick return off the top of my head.

Also, his inability to hit the line and get over the gainline like Brown is a big negative.

His kick return was a big issue.... as i said the other day, brown and foden both return the ball hard. if they can't do that they kick to regather - goode kicks long. I think Englands game plan was to kick long and low to stop the game int eh air, but the kick chase was so poor it allowed the irish backfield to choice their options.

the one time we did a good kick chase Vunipola smashed Bowe and we got a bit fo momentum.

I think the half backs really got a lesson today, and i think Ford needs to learn very quickly that the margins for decision making arezero - if you haven't made your mind up take contact or pass one out.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Irish fans on social media saying Cole should be cited for the headclash with Healy.

Bants

 

[Draggs]

I genuinely think Farrell only went over Biggar because:
a) Would have been another 'Gats only picking Welsh players' situation
b) Daddy

 

[goodNumber10]

Irish fans on social media saying Cole should be cited for the headclash with Healy.

Bants

i suppose they want Vunipola cited for knocking SOB the Eff out?

He was like Bambi when he got up

 

[ncurd]

Ugh well at least I got the margin right just the wrong bloody team. Nothing to really say Ireland were better ball in hand and made few mistakes hard to beat that really. I think it was 50 mins in before England had put in in a scrum.

 

[profitius]

I must be missing something here mate because Jones boy and Profitus both made a point that Ireland were quicker to the breakdown today and that you can't replace a 7 with locks.

They are clearly alluding to a point that Ireland had a specialist 7 on the field today and that England didn't otherwise what was the releveance of their point?

Jones boy was originally talking about size. Ireland have a smaller, quicker backrow while England's were bigger and slower.

More to do with the backrow as a whole.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Irish fans on social media saying Cole should be cited for the headclash with Healy.

I really do think we are in a situation today where people have completely lost sight of the fact that rugby is a contact sport.

 

[goodNumber10]

George Ford on today:

https://twitter.com/EnglandRugby/status/572100051930988544

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I really do think we are in a situation today where people have completely lost sight of the fact that rugby is a contact sport.

and that everything an English player does on a pitch is illegal.
There was a considerable number of people calling for Burrell to be banned for a tip tackle in the Wales game, when it really really wasn't a tip tackle.

 

[goodNumber10]

Jones boy was originally talking about size. Ireland have a smaller, quicker backrow while England's were bigger and slower.

More to do with the backrow as a whole.

Ah! yes that makes more sense

- - - Updated - - -

Brian Moore on Todays game, pretty well balanced to be fair:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/sixnations/11443521/Six-Nations-Imprecise-and-ill-disciplined-but-do-not-judge-England-until-after-Rugby-World-Cup.html

 

[ncurd]

Ah! yes that makes more sense

- - - Updated - - -

Brian Moore on Todays game

Mr. Moore has long been one of my favourite pundits/commentators I know he's not everyone's cup of tea but I think he's generally fair to both teams, just wish I didn't have to Eddie 'whichever decision wouldn't benefit the English' Butler.

But yeah fair article pretty much how I saw the game.

 

[LiRFCMatt]

I genuinely think Farrell only went over Biggar because:
a) Would have been another 'Gats only picking Welsh players' situation
b) Daddy

Judging by his selection anyway he didn't care of other people's opinions, and it turns out he was justified.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

George Ford is about as overrated as my arse.

 

[bw245]

Watching the game back with bbc commentary. Can't understand why England kept kicking the restart to Simon Zebo.

 

[goodNumber10]

Watching the game back with bbc commentary. Can't understand why England kept kicking the restart to Simon Zebo.

kick long, pressure on their exit strategy, make them kick to touch so you get possession in your oppo's half.

It didn't work, so i'm not sure why they didn't switch to splitting the field and kicking down the middle - Bowe, Zebo and Kearny are awesome in the air, but Kearny would have to have come forward and meet the on coming English.

 

[munstermuffin]

George Ford is about as overrated as my arse.

Lol does this mean he is or isn't? I'm not able to tell

 

[munstermuffin]

kick long, pressure on their exit strategy, make them kick to touch so you get possession in your oppo's half.

It didn't work, so i'm not sure why they didn't switch to splitting the field and kicking down the middle - Bowe, Zebo and Kearny are awesome in the air, but Kearny would have to have come forward and meet the on coming English.

Difference is all 3 have played inter county GAA at underage. Unusual to regular team here in Ireland most play GAA growing up and perfect the art of catching high balls. Opposition teams don't factor this in some times.