2017/18 Champions cup & Challenge Cup Pools draw thread.

[Leonormous Boozer]

I get point bit more so he's done this fixture before and both teams were happy with him. He's also very good with French teams in terms of communication. Not that this will be as big a factor with Racing due to high amount having English.

On the SF debate do we see this forcing Leinster to leave Dublin in a similar scenario if/when it arises again

If there was another stadium fitting the requirements in Ireland that wouldn't draw huge rent from the GAA then yes, otherwise no.

I imagine the only reason Racing moved to Bordeaux is because the Parcel Des Princes and Stade de France are too big for their diminutive fan base to fill while the U Arena is their home ground. You can easily expect 15,000+ Munster fans to go but getting more than 10k - 15k Racing fans is a huge ask and the tournament has drawn criticism for half empty stadia in it's final rounds in previous years.

 

[Groundhog]

If we win I'm sure excuses will be found regardless of the referee.

 

[munstermuffin]

If there was another stadium fitting the requirements in Ireland that wouldn't draw huge rent from the GAA then yes, otherwise no.

I imagine the only reason Racing moved to Bordeaux is because the Parcel Des Princes and Stade de France are too big for their diminutive fan base to fill while the U Arena is their home ground. You can easily expect 15,000+ Munster fans to go but getting more than 10k - 15k Racing fans is a huge ask and the tournament has drawn criticism for half empty stadia in it's final rounds in previous years.

Talk now is that Leinster may have to go to Thomond or a venue in the North. Issue with some private owned GAA isn't rent but the layout. Like they haven't the facilities. Wasn't that a big part of why RWC bid failed. Even stadiums modernised like PUC were still years behind in things like media facilities and disability sections

 

[FrenchFan]

Poite in Dublin, JP in Bordeaux.

an Irish-born ref for the semi final LOL LOL
ERC are clearly not bothered with the credibility of their competition...

 

[Thingimubob]

Genuinely?! Where's this coming from?

I mean while I thought it was a little daft that the Scarlets and Munster had zero chance of a "home" semi final as 3rd and 4th seeds, doesn't bother me that Leinster would pick the Aviva as they're the top seeds and it's not their "main" home stadium? I mean yeah they generally move their big games there, but that's never been an issue in the past?

I remember back in 2008/9 the Blues played their opening home pool match vs Gloucester in the Millenium, then moved their 1/4 final vs Toulouse there, then ended up with a home country semi draw and again had the game in the Millenium. Pretty much more or less the same situation with Leinster here right? Silly to kick up a fuss.

I doubt the venue is worrying the Scarlets coaches/players too much, as while it's always a tough ask, it's not like they haven't a) beaten Leinster away in a big knockout game (obviously not European Semi big, but still) in recent times and b) Not like they haven't recently won a final at the Aviva either...

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Genuinely?! Where's this coming from?

I mean while I thought it was a little daft that the Scarlets and Munster had zero chance of a "home" semi final as 3rd and 4th seeds, doesn't bother me that Leinster would pick the Aviva as they're the top seeds and it's not their "main" home stadium? I mean yeah they generally move their big games there, but that's never been an issue in the past?

I remember back in 2008/9 the Blues played their opening home pool match vs Gloucester in the Millenium, then moved their 1/4 final vs Toulouse there, then ended up with a home country semi draw and again had the game in the Millenium. Pretty much more or less the same situation with Leinster here right? Silly to kick up a fuss.

I doubt the venue is worrying the Scarlets coaches/players too much, as while it's always a tough ask, it's not like they haven't a) beaten Leinster away in a big knockout game (obviously not European Semi big, but still) in recent times and b) Not like they haven't recently won a final at the Aviva either...

To be fair, I haven't seen it much from Scarlets fans at all, S Barnes tweeted about it and others followed. The issue appears to be that Racing have to go to Bordeaux coupled with the idea that because we voluntarily take games there its our home stadium. This ignores that we have a worse record in Lansdowne than the RDS having lost as many matches in Lansdowne since the start of the 2014/15 season as we have lost in the RDS (3 each for a 70% record in Lansdowne and a 95% record in the RDS) and we essentially give up home advantage for profit as well as Racing needing a stadium of moderate size considering they have a weak fan base who can't be trusted to fill out a 48,000 seater stadium with much higher rent than the 33,000 one they're using.

Talk now is that Leinster may have to go to Thomond or a venue in the North. Issue with some private owned GAA isn't rent but the layout. Like they haven't the facilities. Wasn't that a big part of why RWC bid failed. Even stadiums modernised like PUC were still years behind in things like media facilities and disability sections

We'll have to get another home semi first of all.

If its true that GAA stadiums aren't considered then there is literally no other stadium to go to apart from Croker which would get 75% capacity at best, is far more expensive and would still draw criticism due to being in Dublin. Thomond is too small for a semi final according to the original EPCR rules which are still de facto in place when they're not worried about empty stadiums like 2016, otherwise we'd be playing there. They either have to accept this slight advantage in the rules, lose 17,000 ticket sales, or punish Leinster for being in a small country by forcing them to go abroad, they do what their wallets want while causing the least outrage. If they do stop us playing in Dublin they'd want to be fairly careful about what they do with other sides too, Leicester and Toulon have both played home country semis in cities that are a 45 mins or less drive away, Sarries played in London Irish's stadium and while that's in Reading their tenants are a London side!

 

[Thingimubob]

Ah Stuart Barnes can do one probably still raging away inside that Bath aren't there, so wanted to moan about something...

While it would be ideal to have all semi finals in as neutral venue as possible, it's just not practical to not use Lansdowne when compared to the other options - especially at this late stage!

Tickets have been on sale for a week or so already right? To move it now would shaft both sets of fans as they'll have to arrange / re-arrange extra travel plans and accommodation...

Also 95% win reckon at RDS?! Thats crazy good!

Interestingly, the ERC don't seem to care at all about neutral semis in the Challenge Cup! Blues vs Pau is at the Arms Park and Gloucester vs Newcastle us at Kingsoholm.

Obviously it makes sense to have them at smaller grounds since they wont have the same draw attendance wise, just makes me laugh how the "neutral" aspect gets thrown on the window compared to the Champions Cup!

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Yeah, since Joe Schmidt left Dragons, Scarlets and Wasps have won there. Even in a season where we failed to qualify for the Pro 12 playoffs we were 10/11, 2011/12 was the last time we lost more than two Pro 12 games there and before Wasps it was the 2009/10 season that we last lost in the HEC. (11/13 with the HEC incl.) A Bona fide fortress in comparison with Lansdowne where Munster, Clermont, Toulon and Northampton have all won this decade.

 

[Groundhog]

Yeah the wording being thrown around that Racing 'had to' go to Bordeaux is stupid. They, like every other team is what suits them best. Also loving the crying about JP Doyle. He's an RFU registered ref who speaks very good French. Cries of Irish bias from a Swiss company after this new tournament was essentially set up because the French and English clubs held a great tournament hostage over money is ridiculous.

 

[FrenchFan]

If Racing go thru it'll blow over. If Munster go thru it's a stitch up. Doyle was born in Dublin.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Doyle is Gick, everyone should hate him.

 

[FrenchFan]

Nothing personal against Doyle. His competence is not in question. His neutrality is.

This is not the Pro14. Europe is a different game. We want neutral refs. And JP aint neutral.

 

[munstermuffin]

Nothing personal against Doyle. His competence is not in question. His neutrality is.

This is not the Pro14. Europe is a different game. We want neutral refs. And JP aint neutral.

JP ain't Pro14 either

 

[mosfeldt]

Even as a Munster fan I'm uncomfortable with JP reffing this game. Even if he is sincere I think 100% unbiased, in any context even outside of sport, is impossible. French fans seem to think that any sort of Welsh/English/Irish ref is out to get them no matter who they're playing so I can't even imagine how they'll feel when an actual Irish ref is reffing a knock-out match involving an Irish club.

If Munster win I can't see anything but controversy and if so it'll be a tainted win.

 

[FrenchFan]

Even as a Munster fan I'm uncomfortable with JP reffing this game. Even if he is sincere I think 100% unbiased, in any context even outside of sport, is impossible. French fans seem to think that any sort of Welsh/English/Irish ref is out to get them no matter who they're playing so I can't even imagine how they'll feel when an actual Irish ref is reffing a knock-out match involving an Irish club.

If Munster win I can't see anything but controversy and if so it'll be a tainted win.

yes unfortunately. And the ERC's decision to name a non-neutral ref is only going to fuel that perception...