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[2019 Six Nations] England Squad

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Itoje out, but tbh I don't think we need him, especially with Scotland's injury list which just keeps getting bigger. Give him a good long rest.
 
Tigs Man said:
No it was at the end of a London Irish v wasps game when Catt went to shake his hand and Cips snubbed him completely.
Click to expand...

OK fair enough, but why declining to shake Mike Catt's hand the same as blowing your international opportunity ?
 
Cips in line for a Stephen Donald moment. It’s written in the stars.

Can’t blame him at all if he now buggers off to France for the cash. Will be very disappointed in Manu if he does likewise after the RWC though. Tigers have shown great loyalty and it’s not exactly like he’s badly paid. Would Tigers salary + England money exceed what a French club could pay? Maybe that all boils down to whether he can back himself to stay fit.
 
Bill said:
OK fair enough, but why declining to shake Mike Catt's hand the same as blowing your international opportunity ?
Click to expand...

Not the same.
Just he's been his own worst enemy for most of his career, in regards to having a ego that coaches are not that happy with. He was beginning his international career and he already was being petulant.
Difference between being arrogant like Farrell and egotistic, and whilst I think he has matured the Jersey incident still shows that is still their.

Manu was in a similar situation back in 2015, maybe not 100% ego but had other vices, and with his injury time off he has development his character more.

Cips is THE most talented attacking rugby player in England (and Europe IMO) but @31 he no one else to blame but himself.
(Also his constant media talk about England a couple seasons ago ****** Eddie off, same with Fearns, Eddie doesn't like players using the media to try and pressure a coach for selection).
 
Spencer is class, to be fair.
Probably the most well rounded 9 we have,
Great pass, deceptively quick and only 2nd to wigglesworth as a box kicker in the country

Should have been involved a long time ago (same as Robson, really)
 
Robson is out because of illness apparently, I was about to rant about Jones messing him about. Happy with Spencer TBH and agree he should have been getting a look in (along with Robson) at least last year if not earlier.
 
Tbh any SH getting game time for England is good at this point as we are completely reliant on Youngs. No idea what Jones is playing at. He's ignored other players since he took over and when he finally drops one he either takes the oldest SH in the premiership or refuses to bring on anyone else.
 
Stooke and Ewells in the 26 man squad, but I'm expecting Hughes on the bench over them,

I'd hope Wilson comes straight back in at 6.

Be interesting to see what happens with the 13/23 shirt - Does Slade come back into the centres? Does Teo take the 23 shirt if so? Which one of Nowell/Joe C misses out if so?
 
TRF_Olyy said:
Stooke and Ewells in the 26 man squad, but I'm expecting Hughes on the bench over them,

I'd hope Wilson comes straight back in at 6.

Be interesting to see what happens with the 13/23 shirt - Does Slade come back into the centres? Does Teo take the 23 shirt if so? Which one of Nowell/Joe C misses out if so?
Click to expand...
Reckon Joe C may get dropped, his defence is kinda shaky tbf
 
I don't think Joe's defence was as bad as people are making out; I thought he defensive line as a whole was way too narrow and he was being forced to move in rather than that he was individually poor. Regardless, I think what he offers in attack makes up for shaky defence. I'd hope for Ewels (Stooke's been in better form IMO), Hughes and Te'o to get dropped, but I think it'll be Ewels, Stooke and Cokonasiga with Te'o and Tuilagi remaining in the centre.
 
Te'o shouldn't even get the 23 shirt for Worcester let alone England. Tbh I should probably be more angry with Jones than Te'o because it's Jones' fault that he hasn't given Te'o time to rest or recover some form and keeps picking him when clearly he shouldn't.
 
Seriously Robson is out! I know illness and thats no what annoys me. What annoys me is we have youngs who is clearly first choice and Care who is out of favour both over 30. Wiggs who is old. And that is our experience at scrum half.

Robson could have had 60 min off the bench and his first start in these last 4 games to get a real show what hes about. Instead we know very little. 20 min v italy and 3 min vs france.

Robson and spencer have 2 caps each a handful of minutes against tear 2 nations.

Its just a massive failure on eddies part IMO.

As for big joe his defecive issues could get shown up by scotland but at the same time his power and offloads could be what we need. He is raw atm and a handful of games to see what he can do with gametime. With Nowell as cover.

Manu slade centres, both can swap round in attack. And played well together in defence.

Teo can go suck a fat one.

My back line for Scotland. Split playmakers both with a big lad outside them. Daly and May with real pace. Definatly our strongest balanced backline, and scotland like to go wide so its a great test of Joe's defence chance to get some experience.

Youngs Faz May Manu Slade Joe Daly

Spencer Ford Nowell
 
scotty507 said:
Seriously Robson is out! I know illness and thats no what annoys me. What annoys me is we have youngs who is clearly first choice and Care who is out of favour both over 30. Wiggs who is old. And that is our experience at scrum half.
Click to expand...

Very true. I'm sure Care and Wiggles will go to Japan though. They're both experienced and offer different things. Care has become a finisher who can up the tempo and chase the win. Wiggles is more percentages who can close out a game. But neither are ideal starters / first choices and the big question is what happens if Youngs gets hurt or is out of form. Spencer / Robson only likely to get a look in if one of the others gets injured.

Like your suggested back line and bench for Scotland.
 
Tigs Man said:
Not the same.
Just he's been his own worst enemy for most of his career, in regards to having a ego that coaches are not that happy with. He was beginning his international career and he already was being petulant.
Difference between being arrogant like Farrell and egotistic, and whilst I think he has matured the Jersey incident still shows that is still their.

Manu was in a similar situation back in 2015, maybe not 100% ego but had other vices, and with his injury time off he has development his character more.

Cips is THE most talented attacking rugby player in England (and Europe IMO) but @31 he no one else to blame but himself.
(Also his constant media talk about England a couple seasons ago ****** Eddie off, same with Fearns, Eddie doesn't like players using the media to try and pressure a coach for selection).
Click to expand...

Manu's attitude and behaviour has been far worse than Cipriani's imo. Assaulting a female copper ? arrested whilst on tour with england ?

and when was the last time a word was heard in selection debates about Tuilagi's behaviour ?

Cips has been quoted in the media because the media talk about him all the time. It's a viscious circle : press talk about his unjustified non-selection, coach gets the hump and doesnt select him, press talks about it....

The one with the bad behaviour here is EJ, flat out lieing about him being dropped based on form days before he was awarded player of the month. It's a joke.

For me Cips' attitude has been incredible. Barerly been selected in a decade and just carries on trying to win his place back, with hardly a word of complaint. The comparison to Manu whose behaviour has been appalling, and who gets selected whenever fit without question is completely inappropriate imo.
 
Genge, George, Sinkler
Itoje, Kruis
Wilson, Vunipola, Curry

Robson Youngs, Ford
Tuilagi, Joseph
May, Daly, Cokanasiga

Moon, LCD, Cole, Launchbury, Mercer
YoungsSpencer, Farrell, Nowell

Quite honestly, my "everyone fit" team* only brings Mako and Watson in to start from that, with Genge and Daly moving to the bench, and maybe Hartley joining them there (I'd also love Slade to be a genuine option at 12, to allow horses-for-courses selection any 2 from Slade, Manu, JJ).


* Were everyone fit right now. For a RWC knock-out match; Daly absolutely starts, and Nowell benches, with Coka dropping right out of the 22. For now, Coka gets as much game-time as he can, in the hopes that after 10 caps and a pre-RWC camp, he's adapted, and his defence has comes along for the ride.
 
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Bill said:
Manu's attitude and behaviour has been far worse than Cipriani's imo. Assaulting a female copper ? arrested whilst on tour with england ?

and when was the last time a word was heard in selection debates about Tuilagi's behaviour ?

Cips has been quoted in the media because the media talk about him all the time. It's a viscious circle : press talk about his unjustified non-selection, coach gets the hump and doesnt select him, press talks about it....

The one with the bad behaviour here is EJ, flat out lieing about him being dropped based on form days before he was awarded player of the month. It's a joke.

For me Cips' attitude has been incredible. Barerly been selected in a decade and just carries on trying to win his place back, with hardly a word of complaint. The comparison to Manu whose behaviour has been appalling, and who gets selected whenever fit without question is completely inappropriate imo.
Click to expand...

Like have you forgotten cips in Jersey? Mr Golden wrists assaulting a police officer this year.
or what about Cips getting arrested a few years ago for drink driving?

Right choir boy isn't he, he's 30 now he should be one of the senior leaders.
As Eddie says he thinks Cips can't be a bench player and he doesn't think he is ahead of Farrell (Rightly or wrongly).

Manu has his vices as I said, not all driven mainly by ego. He's worked hard on it, and outside one night of getting some drinks with Denny (I blame sale) has kept his head down and worked hard off the field to sort those issues out.

The tour incident is nearly 8 years ago, cips 8 years ago was kicked out by the Rebels for his behaviour.

During Eddie Jones time in charge.
Cips
Drink Driving charge
Assulting police officer charge

Manu
Had some drinks with Denny during a england training camp.
 
TBH I suspect the off field stuff is maybe 20% of the reason Cips gets overlooked.

If Jones thought he’d add to the squad he’d pick him. I suspect his main concern is over Cips commitment to the physical stuff. Defence remains flaky and he’s still prone to flipping on bad ball and putting a team mate in trouble rather than taking the hit. Neither scream team player; while smaller, you can’t ever question Ford’s commitment.
 

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