[2020 Six Nations] England Squad

[TRF_Olyy]

Umaga is a odd one but I haven't seen much of him. Smith has hardly earned a call up this season either.

Simmonds is the one getting ****** by Umaga's call up.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Loosehead Prop: Genge, Marler, Vunipola
As expected really. Hopefully this means that Marler plans on sticking around for another 4-year cycle or maybe he's just got his eyes set on having another crack at the Lions. I'd hope to see a healthy bit of rotation here, hopefully getting Genge some much needed starts.


Hooker: Cowan-Dickie, Dunn, George
No surprises in LCD or George but slightly disappointed by Dunn's inclusion. There's nothing actively wrong with him but he's just such an uninspiring selection. I'd have much rather seen someone younger come in like Walker or even just keep Singleton in despite his recent performances.


Tighthead Prop: Sinckler, Stuart, Williams
I'm actually pretty happy with this. Stuart could be the big b****** we've been lacking (although I'd have preferred WillGriff John). Williams can do a job if needs be.


Lock: Ewels, Itoje, Kruis, Launchbury, Lawes, Moon
Moon is a very left field inclusion but one that I'm pleasantly surprised by. He's a very big unit and has been turning in solid performances for Saints. My main question here is why so many? 6 locks and only 5 back rowers definitely suggests that we may once gain be seeing Itoje or Lawes at blindside.


Back Row: Curry, Earl, Hill, Ludlam, Underhill
This is where I have the most questions. No Dombrandt (or any 8) is just baffling. Genuinely can't figure it out, where are the guy's weaknesses? EJ clearly sees something very good in Ludlam but Willis has been much more impressive. And why only 5? Dombrandt could've been included without having to drop anyone. I am happy to see Hill though, he's the most genuine blindside that we've had in a long time. Who plays 8? Curry, Earl, Hill and Ludlam have all spent time there (Earl the most by a long way). 8 is my biggest concern in this squad. I'm going to out on a limb here and say that I think EJ will go for 6. Lawes 7. Underhill 8. Curry. You heard it here first.


Scrum Half: Heinz, Youngs
Just… Ugh. Neither will be around in 2023 and Youngs is just so c***. The list of others that should be in here is endless.


Fly Half: Farrell, Ford, Umaga
Farrell and Ford are solid. I seem to be the only person actually quite excited by Umaga's inclusion. I thought his performances for Wasps had been pretty good recently? I think he could be a genuinely good option at 12 in the future; has the distribution ability that EJ likes but also the individual pace and footwork to actually pose a threat to defences himself.


Centre: Devoto, Dingwall, Joseph, Tuilagi
Dingwall in is… something. He has looked good but I can't see him playing and if EJ's only got him there for experience then why not include Lawrence who looks like he has a much higher ceiling. Would've also much rather seen Luke James in ahead of him (or even Devoto tbh). Joseph and Tuilagi are solid.


Back Three: Daly, Furbank, May, Thorley, Watson
Well it looks like Daly will remain at 15. Furbank's inclusion is good – I like a fullback who can act as a second distributor. May and Watson are solid but not a fan of Thorley's inclusion to be honest. He's clearly a very good athlete but I think he's majorly lacking in just about every other facet of wing play. Nowell can feel hard done by and it seems like a major change of heart by EJ considering how determined he was to have him in his RWC squad.

Predicted Squad:
1. Vunipola
2. George
3. Sinckler
4. Itoje
5. Kruis
6. Lawes
7. Underhill
8. Curry
9. Youngs
10. Farrell
11. May
12. Tuilagi
13. Joseph
14. Watson
15. Daly

16. LCD
17. Marler
18. Williams
19. Launchbury
20. Ludlam
21. Heinz
22. Ford
23. Idk, Furbank? Devoto? Thorley?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Baffled by the lack of Dombrandt and new 9's. I suspect Jones is maybe looking for continuity and a good win for the 6N and will start blooding new players in the other internationals, but then we thought that after the 2015 world cup and he just stubbornly refused to make changes for 2 years. Admittedly we were on a winning streak but it has created a gap in players with caps in certain positions.

I'd say that team is certainly capable of doing well. The main issue is if the Sarries players have the right mindset at the moment.

Also regarding Nowell, I heard that was due to injury. I can't understand why Spencer has been dropped though, I don't know what Jones has against him.

 

[will311293]

Only issues for me is no Dombrandt and new 9s. I like the rest of that. Umaga is a odd one but I haven't seen much of him. Smith has hardly earned a call up this season either.

Good to see Devotto back over Francis, Earl, Hill, Stuart, Furbank and Thorley.

So Kruis and Launch keep there spots which is good to see. Maybe Japan rumours weren't true after all.

Umaga has played well when he has appeared and the concept of a Apprentice slot wasn't out of the question but appearing to have been properly picked is a real surprise.

Bit of a shame if anything, as start regularly at Wasps and getting good game time,

 

[Scotty]

Happy with the squad apart from 8 and 9. Seriously all we wanted was dombrandt and a 9. This is all we wanted.

Umaga is a shock but he is playing well and thorley is a good player.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Agree with Toby on the likelihood of a lock at flanker.

Earl is the least unqualified to play 8. I really like what I've seen of him, but you can't play him alongside Curryhill. Hill's a proper 6 but it would be daft to blood him and Earl at the same time.

It's frankly astonishing that none of Uni Rig, Morgan or, yes even Hughes, can make the squad. Or Harrison - not a massive fan, but he's older, wiser and in undeniably good form.

Bar 8 & 9, which isn't an important hinge or anything, there's a lot of good. McConnochie & Singleton experiments over. TH looks a lot better and there's a specialist full back and inside centre

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Agree with Toby on the likelihood of a lock at flanker.

Earl is the least unqualified to play 8. I really like what I've seen of him, but you can't play him alongside Curryhill. Hill's a proper 6 but it would be daft to blood him and Earl at the same time.

It's frankly astonishing that none of Uni Rig, Morgan or, yes even Hughes, can make the squad. Or Harrison - not a massive fan, but he's older, wiser and in undeniably good form.

Bar 8 & 9, which isn't an important hinge or anything, there's a lot of good. McConnochie & Singleton experiments over. TH looks a lot better and there's a specialist full back and inside centre

Unfortunately neither of them will play unless maybe against Italy.

I forgot to mention one omission that I'm kinda peeved about; Isiekwe. 6 locks and he's not one of them?

 

[FLOBALOB]

.

Bar 8 & 9, which isn't an important hinge or anything, there's a lot of good. McConnochie & Singleton experiments over. TH looks a lot better and there's a specialist full back and inside centre

I'm still waiting for the experiments to start or did i miss it?

 

[MikeTheNative]

Thorley plays wing these days

Ahh ok, that makes a bit more sense.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

@TRF_Olyy D'ya know who'd look good in that squad? Uilliam Addison, too bad he's as Irish af.

Clever squad overall imo with a few EJ specials, doesn't look like there'll be many unforced changes in the starting XV (Billy V out has 5 other teams breathing a massive sigh of relief) but a lot of inexperienced guys should get a taste off the bench. Selected with an eye to the long term which seems to be a shared theme among all of the squads.

 

[Reiser99]

My big issue is still scrum half. There are roughly 40 games before the next world cup. If Heinz is still there I'll probably die of shock. Youngs is 30 and so is unlikely to speed up or improve, if anything get slower and 34 really is the upper limit at a world cup unless you're truly exceptional, which he's not. We also saw the issue of not having given other scrum halves enough game time during the world cup with Spencer flown in at the last minute.

With this 6N's selection finished, barring injury to Heinz or Youngs the number of games is reduced to roughly 35. Therefore in 4 years time assuming Jones accepts the inevitable he would have to choose between which ever scrum halves are in favour, all of which would probably have less than 30 caps or just over. Every other position has some players or player who has a mix of caps and youth so that they will be experienced in 2023. Jones is hoping that a player who many already want dropped is at his peak when he's 34, because otherwise there will be very little experience at 9. Honestly it's baffling.

 

[Nudger]

Is Nowell injured?

I read somewhere he requires ankle surgery

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

(Billy V out has 5 other teams breathing a massive sigh of relief)

Are other teams still really that bothered by him? Big powerful unit for sure, but pretty easy to plan for and not the force he has been. BTW hope he can bounce back, but suffering the same injury yet again has to be pretty soul destroying.

 

[bushytop]

Are other teams still really that bothered by him? Big powerful unit for sure, but pretty easy to plan for and not the force he has been. BTW hope he can bounce back, but suffering the same injury yet again has to be pretty soul destroying.

He's still a force and imo weakens England somewhat (debatable by how much) if he's not playing.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Aye, just having to add ballast to deal with him will affect some/most teams.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

My big issue is still scrum half. There are roughly 40 games before the next world cup. If Heinz is still there I'll probably die of shock. Youngs is 30 and so is unlikely to speed up or improve, if anything get slower and 34 really is the upper limit at a world cup unless you're truly exceptional, which he's not. We also saw the issue of not having given other scrum halves enough game time during the world cup with Spencer flown in at the last minute.

With this 6N's selection finished, barring injury to Heinz or Youngs the number of games is reduced to roughly 35. Therefore in 4 years time assuming Jones accepts the inevitable he would have to choose between which ever scrum halves are in favour, all of which would probably have less than 30 caps or just over. Every other position has some players or player who has a mix of caps and youth so that they will be experienced in 2023. Jones is hoping that a player who many already want dropped is at his peak when he's 34, because otherwise there will be very little experience at 9. Honestly it's baffling.

I suspect Ben Spencer's had better weeks.

It's beyond baffling. But if those are the 2 then there's a strong argument for starting Heinz.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Heinz should 100% be starting out of the 2. His passing game is infinitely better.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Aye, I'd definitely start Heinz.
I'd also have on-crutches-Alex-Mitchell on the bench over Youngs, tbf


Mental that an entire world cup cycle ago we were saying we need to be looking at who is behind Youngs/Care - and we still don't know (well, other Heinz who will be 37 next world cup).

 

[Scotty]

On 9 i really thought after youngs was terrible st the wc that was it. You want to keep experience but he is just not good or consistany enough. And 34 is too old for an average player.

obv he wants alex Mitchell but he hasnt played this season so cant pick him. But he is a good prospect.

 

[Not Eddie Jones]

Eddie really needs to win this 6N to get a contract that takes him through to the 2023 WC, so I suspect that's why he's stuck with his established halfbacks and why the only regulars he's left out are the injured ones (and Dan Cole). Come the Barbarians and the 2-game series against Japan, for which Eddie has said he will rest his WC players, I expect we'll see our future scrumhalves, Dombrandt etc. It does strike me as odd though that so many people are looking at a tournament 4 years away and decrying a perceived lack of prepping for it when the last WC has only just finished and there are 4 6N tournaments, 3 summer tours and 3 sets of Autumn Internationals to be won before then!

Having said that, Dombrandt's omission is a tad odd, but I wonder, like some others, if Eddie is going for Ted Hill at 8. He's been keen on him for a while and Hill certainly has the size and carrying ability. I doubt Eddie wants to bench either one of Curryhill, so this might be a way of getting Hill involved (and creating Curryhillhill (Curry Two-Hills?) )