2021 British & Irish Lions Squad

[Jakedood]

Replacing a second row with a tight head?

AWJ, on form alone, was arguably the in form lock of the 6N.

I'll ignore the Tipuric omission (though I love Underhill to be fair)

If you're gonna replace Tipuric, should be with a winger, maybe Jonny May

 

[Welsh Exile]

If you're gonna replace Tipuric, should be with a winger, maybe Jonny May

As long as he makes 80 odd tackles and misses none I'll be happy.

Joking aside it'll be like 2017, Tips won't get a sniff in the match day squads. I actually remember your boy Henderson saying how harsh it was that Tips never got a fair chance as he was the player he was most impressed by. What can I say, Henderson knows a good player when he sees one. Think Henshaw was the same as well.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

A lot of 8's dont these days. Keiran Read wasnt a bulldozer, Faletau isnt a bulldozer. Its about quick feet at the line, speed, and skills in the offload etc when ball carrying for most of the top ones. I'd say the SA of Coetzee/Vermeulen and Billy would be the exceptions to this

Aye, I get that - but who's the beef in that back row in that case?
Simmonds at 8 would necessitate a lock at 6 (and even then Lawes isn't particularly great at the tight nitty gritty stuff)

Someone on another thread made a great post about why Simmonds is great for Chiefs but not necessarily internationally - can't remember who it was - but I fear it's going to become evident on the tour.
Kind of like Goode looking like the best 15 in the game for Saracens, then you move him out of those systems and he just doesn't work as well

 

[MikeTheNative]

Don't even need a lock at 6 if they had taken a proper 6..... grumble..... grumble....... Navidi grumble...... grumble .......

 

[Mumbles119]

Replacing a second row with a tight head?

AWJ, on form alone, was arguably the in form lock of the 6N.

I'll ignore the Tipuric omission (though I love Underhill to be fair)

I feel a smaller squad size would make the need for front row more important than six second rows.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I feel a smaller squad size would make the need for front row more important than six second rows.

Don't think we'd need 4 tight heads though. I can see where you're coming from though.

 

[Jakedood]

Aye, I get that - but who's the beef in that back row in that case?
Simmonds at 8 would necessitate a lock at 6 (and even then Lawes isn't particularly great at the tight nitty gritty stuff)

Someone on another thread made a great post about why Simmonds is great for Chiefs but not necessarily internationally - can't remember who it was - but I fear it's going to become evident on the tour.
Kind of like Goode looking like the best 15 in the game for Saracens, then you move him out of those systems and he just doesn't work as well

I do think we're underestimating the power of Curry/Watson, Beirne obviously performs very well as a 6 because he's mobile strong and good over the ball if we go that way.

Simmonds is a powerful little pocket rocket too, i'm not saying he will 100% succeed as this is a step up, but if you can get him any sort of front foot ball, and that is possible with a quick game (if you keep it accurate in a way England couldnt in WC final)

One measure would be to look at how NZ play, a very up tempo game, and that will always produce chances if accurate. I hope the players are given freedom to play off the cuff offloading rugby but we'll see if they can develop enough bonds to run the support lines and get timings etc

There's more than one way to get front foot ball, but I would also say it's a big reason why I'd take Tuilagi, because with him, its near guaranteed, and he creates so much space

If they can get front foot ball with a Back 3 of Hogg, LRZ and Watson however, they could be genuinely lethal, and a back 3 as Im a big advocate for... well if you can get the high tempo, it would be a cracking game to watch

 

[Jakedood]

As long as he makes 80 odd tackles and misses none I'll be happy.

Joking aside it'll be like 2017, Tips won't get a sniff in the match day squads. I actually remember your boy Henderson saying how harsh it was that Tips never got a fair chance as he was the player he was most impressed by. What can I say, Henderson knows a good player when he sees one. Think Henshaw was the same as well.

He never has been Gats favourite has he? I remember a lot of grumbling that Gats never picked him to start with the lydiate/Warburton combination around, but since then Gats has really seemed to value dual opensides, so we'll see what happens
Hendy's a dopey boy at times, occasionally appears like he's juts rolled out of bed to play. I'll blame it on that

 

[Welsh Exile]

He never has been Gats favourite has he? I remember a lot of grumbling that Gats never picked him to start with the lydiate/Warburton combination around, but since then Gats has really seemed to value dual opensides, so we'll see what happens
Hendy's a dopey boy at times, occasionally appears like he's juts rolled out of bed to play. I'll blame it on that

Ahh but Lord Rory Best also said he's genuinely one of the best he's ever played with and Best is Adam Jones level of god like status and can say no wrong in my book. Check mate Welsh Exile.

 

[Jakedood]

Ahh but Lord Rory Best also said he's genuinely one of the best he's ever played with and Best is Adam Jones level of god like status and can say no wrong in my book. Check mate Welsh Exile.

He said that same about Keet Earls this week

 

[Welsh Exile]

He said that same about Keet Earls this week

Really? Damn it. Well he doesn't know backs but knows a class forward when he sees one.

 

[Curls]

AWJ, on form alone, was arguably the in form lock of the 6N.

Form Welsh lock perhaps...

Its worth noting that Wales were a POM and Fagerson red card + French Referee away from an average enough 6 nations. Their lineout was dominated for a lot of the Championship too. Hardly top form.

I'll be interested to see what happens if a few big South African tight 5s pummel the Lions in the opening few games? What is Gatlands plan if the lineout malfunctions? There seems to be no plan B selections. Just a squad of crash bang wallop merchants and the Springboks showed how they deal with those in 2019.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

As long as he makes 80 odd tackles and misses none I'll be happy.

Joking aside it'll be like 2017, Tips won't get a sniff in the match day squads. I actually remember your boy Henderson saying how harsh it was that Tips never got a fair chance as he was the player he was most impressed by. What can I say, Henderson knows a good player when he sees one. Think Henshaw was the same as well.

To be fair I remember thinking Tipuric would be perfect in an otherwise big pack v NZ was in serious form, same with having dual playmakers at 10-12 against them. It took getting hammered in the first test for Gatland to realise.

Henshaw's last tour has me terrified for this one, only showed glimpses of how good he is after his injury on that tour before last autumn. He was also picked for no reason, Gatland had a horn for Te'o who was clearly never going to cut it v an international backline. Fortunately Gatland has left our next two most important backs and 2nd most important forward at home though so if Henshaw, Furlong and Conan can come out of this unscathed I'll be delirah. The rest would still be massive losses but more manageable.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Form Welsh lock perhaps...

Its worth noting that Wales were a POM and Fagerson red card + French Referee away from an average enough 6 nations. Their lineout was dominated for a lot of the Championship too. Hardly top form.

I'll be interested to see what happens if a few big South African tight 5s pummel the Lions in the opening few games? What is Gatlands plan if the lineout malfunctions? There seems to be no plan B selections. Just a squad of crash bang wallop merchants and the Springboks showed how they deal with those in 2019.

I don't have the stats but I think our lineout was pretty solid for the majority of games. Seen the stats that show AWJ wasn't our main jumper (think he only took 3 and stole 1) but overall our line out was good. As was our scrum. Especially when you consider how bad our set piece in general was in the autumn.

I think Jim Hamilton on the Rugby Pod also said how impressed he was with AWJ dominant tackles numbers and was way above Gray (who he initially wanted to go on tour)

No point debating the red card stuff as we'll never know. I think we would've won the England game anyway but as I said we'll never know. Either way, most neutrals seem to agree that AWJ was in good form this 6N and was one of the standouts.

 

[MikeTheNative]

Form Welsh lock perhaps...

Its worth noting that Wales were a POM and Fagerson red card + French Referee away from an average enough 6 nations. Their lineout was dominated for a lot of the Championship too. Hardly top form.

I agree that AWJ wasn't the best lock in the tournament but Wales had a decent lineout apart from the first game against Ireland . Their percentages won were 73% 91%, 94%, 100%, 100%.........................

 

[Welsh Exile]

I agree that AWJ wasn't the best lock in the tournament but Wales had a decent lineout apart from the first game against Ireland . Their percentages won were 73% 91%, 94%, 100%, 100%.........................

Yeah, I remember being a tad worried after that Ireland game that we carried on our poor lineout from the autumn into the 6N and IIRC we lost our first line out against Scotland but won every single one after that in that Scotland game and I remember our subsequent games being good. @Curls must've got our Autumn form mixed up with our 6N form

 

[ncurd]

I agree that AWJ wasn't the best lock in the tournament but Wales had a decent lineout apart from the first game against Ireland . Their percentages won were 73% 91%, 94%, 100%, 100%.........................

I think AWJ sums up this squad, the Lions should be about outstanding talents players that want to make you cream your pants just by being on teamsheet together. Moore, Guscott, Hastings, Johnson, BOD, Robinson it should a super team they might not win but they feel sexy.

AWJ these days is a dependable workhorse the entire squad just a has 'probably won't **** the bed unless they play Mako' vibe rather than being exciting.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Jim Hamilton on the Rugby Pod

That's a blackmark against your name, if anything

Hamilton and Goode are the biggest jobbers in rugby media

 

[MattGaff]

Form Welsh lock perhaps...

Its worth noting that Wales were a POM and Fagerson red card + French Referee away from an average enough 6 nations. Their lineout was dominated for a lot of the Championship too. Hardly top form.

I'll be interested to see what happens if a few big South African tight 5s pummel the Lions in the opening few games? What is Gatlands plan if the lineout malfunctions? There seems to be no plan B selections. Just a squad of crash bang wallop merchants and the Springboks showed how they deal with those in 2019.

OK - just to clear something up.. Wales 2021 6N championship lineouts (won/Total):
Wales v Ireland
11/15 (73%)

Wales v Scotland
11/12 (91%)

Wales v England
16/17 (94%)

Wales v Italy
13/13 (100%)

Wales v France
8/8 (100%)

Lets compare that to Ireland.

Ireland v Wales
7/9 (77%)

Ireland v France
7/7 (100%)

Ireland v Italy
13/14 (92%)

Ireland v Scotland
9/11 (81%)

Ireland v England
10/11 (90%)

Hardly dominated. Yes a shaky start in the first game (against you) but as most likely you probably only watch Ireland games. Never let facts get in the way of an agenda eh

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I'm still bemused out of all the Scotland players Gray missed out.