[2023 Six Nations] England Squad

[Which Tyler]

With my Bath head on, same.

Yup.
But at least we have the silver lining of being able to play them in the Prem - and hopefully out to prove a point!

 

[Geordie]

Yup.
But at least we have the silver lining of being able to play them in the Prem - and hopefully out to prove a point!

What point do they have to prove...they've literally been smashing it all season!

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

With only Dan Kelly being the proper 12 in the group will we see Manu

I'd argue that Manu is mostly a 12 rather than 13 now tbh

 

[Geordie]

If we select Manu over Kelly at 12...then there'll be another post of despair. Play the talented young kid...not the old guy whos no longer effective on the pitch

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'd argue that Manu is mostly a 12 rather than 13 now tbh

Yeah I was gonna say he's pretty much exclusively played 12 for us since joining

Ben Curry definitely a 7, as well - Tom is the one who shifts to 6 when they play side by side (as an aside Sanderson said TC is 4kg heavier than Ben is these days, because of England's wants - pretty mad!)

 

[higgik]

Thought the way Steward was used on the wing on Friday, with more if a plamaker at 15 was an interesting move.
One thing SCW and EJ always said that the numbers meant nothing.
Would like to see a trial of Daly, Steward and Freeman.
With Steward and Freeman giving aerial security, Daly would become more confident in his own aerial ability, (confidence is something Daly struggles with).
One thing he is good at is picking goid lines, so having him ready to explode from the back would be good.

 

[RugbyMarvel]

Got to be Willis or B Curry at 7 if you're playing Dombrandt or Simmonds at 8. Don't think the back row will be at all balanced with Earl at 7 with those 8s, no matter who you play at 6.

Preference for me would be to play Willis and B Curry at 6/7 then Dombrandt at 8. Earl in 20 shirt. Think much more likely that Lawes or Isiekwe at 6 with Willis at 7. Whilst that helps with the lineout, still think we lose a little mobility.

Personally, cannot understand Makos inclusion. It's doubly confusing that he and Rodd are both there. Id have expected one of Marler or Rapava Ruskin to be there as a strong scrummaging option.

Would have liked to see Ribbans feature, probably over Isiekwe. Similarly would have had T Willis in over Simmonds.

Youngs was inevitable with Borthwick taking over. Personally hope he doesn't make 23 and is there for off field presence

 

[Geordie]

I didnt see Isiekwe in there...so he could very well play 6 also.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I think with Farrell being captain that realistically gives 2 options:
1) Continuing with him and Smith as 10 and 12
2) Farrell becomes our starting 10 with Smith off the bench, if at all.

TBH I'm a fan of Smith but would prefer option 2 to 1.

 

[BPM]

Overall the squad is an improvement. I am however worried about the lack of X Factor type backs. I would put Lawrence, Radwan, Watson and Arandall in this category.
We should of binned Young's years ago but he would seemingly be our starting 9
It would appear that will start a lock at 6 , which has been a weakness as opposed to a strength. Particularly as we have played 3 locks and our lineout has still been out played !
Ted Hill and Ben Curry must wonder what they need to do to get called up. Both of them on Fire
Tom Willis over Simmonds for me too
Mako is another strange one

Watson and Arundell are injured. I expect both would have been picked if fit. I'm not sure Radwan deserves to be there ahead of Freeman, Murley or OHC. Yes, he has 'x factor' but those three are all exciting players in their own right who are much more consistent and potentially better suited to test rugby.

Lawrence and Ted Hill can feel aggrieved about being left out though and Mako is a real WTF.

 

[BPM]

Lawrence probably misses out due to rigidity

Kelly and Manu only play centre (and inside centre, at that, these days) but Marchant and Daly are both capped at multiple positions and Slade will do a job covering 15 and even 10 if there's multiple injuries in a game
I'd have had Lawrence in over one of Marchant (form has dipped quite a lot this season) or Daly (Malins can cover the utility slot on the bench) or Manu (one or two good games over the last few seasons), but can understand why he's missed out - hopefully he's next cab off the rank

No it hasn't?

Quins haven't been great, but Marchant has been (as usual) one of our best performers.

Lawrence has had a couple of brilliant games and quite a few OK ones. Marchant's are almost always good or very good. He just hasn't necessarily had a highlight reel game this season.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Maybe Daly starts there...

Honestly wouldn't be surprised to see Daly and Steward start and interchange at wing/fullback

Daly has shown this season what he can do at 13, and it's a lot. That should be the only starting shirt he's considered for. On form he's above Slade for me although I wouldn't mind either.

I think we have to accept that Faz and Manu will start if available. Given that by common consent Faz has been playing some of his best ever rugby this year, at 10, it makes precisely no sense to shove him back to 12. So Faz, Manu and Daly for me. If Manu breaks we can at least slot Kelly straight in without disrupting everything and he'd have the benefit of experience at both 10 and 12.

Tough on Smith, but he's been out while Faz has been playing some good stuff. No-one said life was fair.

 

[Geordie]

Watson and Arundell are injured. I expect both would have been picked if fit. I'm not sure Radwan deserves to be there ahead of Freeman, Murley or OHC. Yes, he has 'x factor' but those three are all exciting players in their own right who are much more consistent and potentially better suited to test rugby.

Lawrence and Ted Hill can feel aggrieved about being left out though and Mako is a real WTF.

Hes completely out of form...should be nowhere near the squad...struggling to make the falcons at the moment

 

[LIONSxv]

Watson and Arundell are injured. I expect both would have been picked if fit. I'm not sure Radwan deserves to be there ahead of Freeman, Murley or OHC. Yes, he has 'x factor' but those three are all exciting players in their own right who are much more consistent and potentially better suited to test rugby.

Lawrence and Ted Hill can feel aggrieved about being left out though and Mako is a real WTF.

Yeah I'm aware they are injured as is Tom Curry I like Murley and OHC and I'm pleased he has dropped May and Nowell.

What I mean in terms of X Factor, is outright speed with footwork. Or a combination of speed and strength (Lawrence). As our forwards look a way off bullying teams we need that spark in the back line to make something out of nowhere
Murley and OHC are class wingers, but from what I've seen most of their tries come from superb finishing as opposed to individual brilliance. I think we need at least two X factor backs given our lack of forward dominance. Just my take

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Yeah I'm aware they are injured as is Tom Curry I like Murley and OHC and I'm pleased he has dropped May and Nowell.

What I mean in terms of X Factor, is outright speed with footwork. Or a combination of speed and strength (Lawrence). As our forwards look a way off bullying teams we need that spark in the back line to make something out of nowhere
Murley and OHC are class wingers, but from what I've seen most of their tries come from superb finishing as opposed to individual brilliance. I think we need at least two X factor backs given our lack of forward dominance. Just my take

I understand what you mean, but I think it's often a bit of a weird option when teams actually look like they're relying on a moment of brilliance that might occur once every 4 games, rather than a setup that works.

Radwan is fine for a moment of X factor that he might pull off once or twice a tournament, but if he isn't better the rest of the time than the other options, he shouldn't be picked.

I suppose it is a little bit like the "basics over flash" argument in the pack. A hooker that is capable of a screamer, but has **** set piece and may be worse than the other options the rest of the time (Thacker for example), isn't going to be picked, especially at intl level - why should it be different for wingers?

It is slightly different for 10s, where their "X Factor" is acutally a consistent impact on the gameplan, as they are literally touching the ball every phase. You can rely on Russell/Smith/Prime Cips to do something magic a few times a game, but when a winger is only getting the ball potentially 6 times a game, you can't expect them to do that.

 

[Scotty]

So pretty happy with this squad, i think first game we will go with:

Genge George Sinks
Itoje Chessum
Willis Dombrandt Earl
JVP Faz
Kelly Slade
Freeman Steward Murley

Mcguigan
Rodd
Hayes
Hill
Curry
Youngs(Mitchell)
MSmith
Daly/Marchant

Dont think Lawes will be rushed back he's not had much gametime back

 

[Geordie]

So pretty happy with this squad, i think first game we will go with:

Genge George Sinks
Itoje Chessum
Willis Dombrandt Earl
JVP Faz
Kelly Slade
Freeman Steward Murley

Mcguigan
Rodd
Hayes
Hill
Curry
Youngs(Mitchell)
MSmith
Daly/Marchant

Dont think Lawes will be rushed back he's not had much gametime back

Its talented mobile and athletic...but is that back 5 missing a bit of old school power and physicality.

Ill get shot for saying this....but Chessum could very well take over Itoje in the Loosehead lock side in the future - hes a similar in your face disruptive type of player but much bigger and will be fantastic...but we need some real power in that tight head lock spot. Thats why im surprised Ribbans isnt there.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

No it hasn't?

Quins haven't been great, but Marchant has been (as usual) one of our best performers.

Lawrence has had a couple of brilliant games and quite a few OK ones. Marchant's are almost always good or very good. He just hasn't necessarily had a highlight reel game this season.

Faaaaaaaair enough, you've definitely seen him a lot more than I have - I remember one of two games thinking he'd been very quiet, and seen people saying he was off form, but if he's not then for me he's our starting 13

Ill get shot for saying this....but Chessum could very well take over Itoje in the Loosehead lock side in the future - hes a similar in your face disruptive type of player but much bigger and will be fantastic...but we need some real power in that tight head lock spot. Thats why im surprised Ribbans isnt there.

Think Tigers are grooming him into a tighthead lock - he's a big boy already and will only get bigger as his frame naturally fills out with more exposure to first team/international rugby

Following a similar path to Isiekwe, who is now looking/built like a proper lock rather than a hybrid

 

[Geordie]

Faaaaaaaair enough, you've definitely seen him a lot more than I have - I remember one of two games thinking he'd been very quiet, and seen people saying he was off form, but if he's not then for me he's our starting 13


Think Tigers are grooming him into a tighthead lock - he's a big boy already and will only get bigger as his frame naturally fills out with more exposure to first team/international rugby

Following a similar path to Isiekwe, who is now looking/built like a proper lock rather than a hybrid

Thats interesting. I agree hes a big lad already about 18+ stone and plenty to add but his mobility and athleticism are the impressive things. Imagine him as the loosehead lock...and then a big powerhouse along side him....now that would be a proper second row team.

I do wonder where Isiekwe will go. Hes played so much at 6...(which seems a natural thing for locks starting out these days, launchbury, Kruis etc all did it. ) but will Saracens play him there when they have Itoje and Tizard now.

 

[Crash Hamster]

I'm not on the Tizard train at the moment. He can certainly play, but I'm not sure he's getting selected in the immediate future. Surprised Ribbans didn't get a gig. I've been very impressed with him domestically.

Hopefully we'll see Farrell or Smith (which means Farrell if he's captain) at 10 and two proper centres. Not disappointed to see Marchant.

It looks like there's some hope to pick a couple of proper wingers, but I bet we end up with at least one 'bonus fullback', which would be a shame.

Hopefully VRR comes in if there's an injury and I'd love to see Hill at 6. I shan't hold my breath.