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[2023 Six Nations] England Squad

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With Tigers losing Chessum for the rest of the season and Sale losing Wiese for the rest of the season I wonder if either will try and bring in Launchbury for the playoff run?
Top League regular season ends in like 4 weeks and there's a chance his side won't make the playoffs (and if they do they'll likely be knocked out in the semis, looking at their current form) - if he's serious about wanting to make a push for the RWC squad you'd think his agent would be trying to get him game time in Europe as soon as his Japanese season ends
 
TRF_Olyy said:
With Tigers losing Chessum for the rest of the season and Sale losing Wiese for the rest of the season I wonder if either will try and bring in Launchbury for the playoff run?
Top League regular season ends in like 4 weeks and there's a chance his side won't make the playoffs (and if they do they'll likely be knocked out in the semis, looking at their current form) - if he's serious about wanting to make a push for the RWC squad you'd think his agent would be trying to get him game time in Europe as soon as his Japanese season ends
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Would Tigers or Sale really want to use that cap on someone for just for a couple games.
Considering the Top league last game is April 23rd, both teams would only get him for what 3 games at most.

Tigers are after a lock though but they are wanting the player to be signed up by Wednesday so they can be registered for Europe.
Granted Tigers are also missing Green on top of Chessum so it's a bit more serious in terms of depth.


**** it i'm gonna say - George Kruis to Leicester Tigers
 
LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan) said:
**** it i'm gonna say - George Kruis to Leicester Tigers
Click to expand...
Not old enough

Borthwick to Tigers?

LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan) said:
Would Tigers or Sale really want to use that cap on someone for just for a couple games.
Click to expand...
Injury dispensation - I'd take Launchbury for the playoffs tbh,

Was more thinking out loud rather than a serious suggestion - I think if he does crop up it'll be at Quins if they lose a forward (I imagine he'll get stuck in training with them as soon as he's back in the UK)
 
TRF_Olyy said:
Not old enough

Borthwick to Tigers?


Injury dispensation - I'd take Launchbury for the playoffs tbh,

Was more thinking out loud rather than a serious suggestion - I think if he does crop up it'll be at Quins if they lose a forward (I imagine he'll get stuck in training with them as soon as he's back in the UK)
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Trouble with Launchbury as a injury dispensation is what are the odds he gets injured before even arriving
 
Bringing this over from the Transfers Rumours thread.

Geordiefalcon said:
Wing is one place we have quality in abundance. Ben Loader to start with looking a good replacement at the moment,
Click to expand...

Sorry for getting nit picky, but it's one position where we have some potential. No more at this stage.

Watson's proven. So's May and if he can get back to anything like and both can stay fit then there are your 2 RWC starters.

After that both positions could be up for grabs and there's not really anyone who's made even a fairly convincing case for succession. Malins has just been dropped by a 2nd consecutive coach. Arundell has all the potential in the world, but is still wet behind the ears and his few senior starts have been at FB (bar, er Ire…..). Nowell has the broader game but not the gas and is off to Fra anyhow. OHC got canned and Coka's seemingly out of the picture. Marchant's a centre really and off to Fra too. Daly’s an option I guess although I’d rather see him at 13.

Radwan's been unlucky in my book but also unproven at this level. Loader’s now getting some good press but we have no idea how that might translate to the bigger stage either. There are others too, but no-one has really screamed over a consistent period that the shirt must be theirs.

I’ve always been a fan of serious gas, but watching Hansen and Lowe for Ire does make you rethink that a bit. Then again they tend to get the ball in their hands a bit more than our guys…..
 
Now OHC is going to Tigers, he's a shoo in, surely..?

Murley looked really good against Sarries; surprised he's not first name on the teamsheet...
 
May will never hit the heights again...time to move on.

Watson is 1st choice as long as he can stay fit and in form. Loader has been on the horizons for a nubmer of years...only hes had injury issues. Hes playing well now though.

Cokasaniga is proven...just needs to get back to his explosive best. A summer with the Tigers coach could well do that.

Then you have Murley playing outstandingly well for a number of seasons now...why hes not even been tried is an absolute mystery to me.

Radwan is Radwan....hes either given a shot or just forget about him. I suspect he'll be forgotten about.

And theres always...Elliott Daly! Playing some top class rugby...and when he was on the wing we did play some great rugby. Id rather him over malins any day of the week!
 
Geordiefalcon said:
Cokasaniga is proven...just needs to get back to his explosive best. A summer with the Tigers coach could well do that.
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He is? He’s had the impressive odd moment at international level but has he ever really shone against Tier 1 opposition? Maybe my memory is too short but I’m struggling to think beyond his 1 try against Australia.


Even at his best there were plenty of question marks around his defence.
 
Old Hooker said:
Bringing this over from the Transfers Rumours thread.



Sorry for getting nit picky, but it's one position where we have some potential. No more at this stage.

Watson's proven. So's May and if he can get back to anything like and both can stay fit then there are your 2 RWC starters.

After that both positions could be up for grabs and there's not really anyone who's made even a fairly convincing case for succession. Malins has just been dropped by a 2nd consecutive coach. Arundell has all the potential in the world, but is still wet behind the ears and his few senior starts have been at FB (bar, er Ire…..). Nowell has the broader game but not the gas and is off to Fra anyhow. OHC got canned and Coka's seemingly out of the picture. Marchant's a centre really and off to Fra too. Daly’s an option I guess although I’d rather see him at 13.

Radwan's been unlucky in my book but also unproven at this level. Loader’s now getting some good press but we have no idea how that might translate to the bigger stage either. There are others too, but no-one has really screamed over a consistent period that the shirt must be theirs.

I’ve always been a fan of serious gas, but watching Hansen and Lowe for Ire does make you rethink that a bit. Then again they tend to get the ball in their hands a bit more than our guys…..
Click to expand...
Dont forget Freeman, id say Murley and Freeman both in the mix post world cup.

Also its not about getting the ball into their hands its about getting the ball into their hands in space. If your centres arnt creating space your wings can look average.

Arundell i want to come good and show his skill at this level but for me he is more of an attacking FB that can play wing, than an out and out winger.
 
I would say Cokasaniga is proven. In 12 games hes scored 8 tries, 4 of which are against tier one nations. Injury and off field trouble has been his biggest opponent...but if he can get back to his fittest and most powerful...then i think he would be very high up the selection chat.
 
Geordiefalcon said:
I would say Cokasaniga is proven. In 12 games hes scored 8 tries, 4 of which are against tier one nations. Injury and off field trouble has been his biggest opponent...but if he can get back to his fittest and most powerful...then i think he would be very high up the selection chat.
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Plus he quite often came into the centre to run a hard hitting centres line. He's the most powerful of our wingers and seems to be a guy who fully utilises it.
 
Geordiefalcon said:
On a similar line....I'm seeing an awful lot of people banging the drum for Freddie Steward to move to 12?

Anyone else seen this.. and whats your thoughts?
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I think it would be really dumb. The thing that makes Steward special is his aerial game. That gets nullified if he’s at 12.

There’s no reason he can’t fill a 12-like role in attack while still playing 15.
 
Geordiefalcon said:
On a similar line....I'm seeing an awful lot of people banging the drum for Freddie Steward to move to 12?

Anyone else seen this.. and whats your thoughts?
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Its what always happens in England.
Is he big? Is he a back? Ergo, he should play 12.

Same calls were made for Tim Simpson back in the day, it was tried with Banahan, same calls have been made about Cokanasiga... it was inevitable they'd be made about Steward too
 
Ragey Erasmus said:
Plus he quite often came into the centre to run a hard hitting centres line. He's the most powerful of our wingers and seems to be a guy who fully utilises it.
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I don’t really see it that way. You sometimes see him make ground in heavy traffic with a powerful hand off but I don’t actually see him as a particularly aggressive runner. At full pelt I’d expect him to break more tackles and make more ground than he does.

Others have rightly questioned his defence and his aerial game isn’t what you’d expect for a big guy. Some good offloading but the only thing we can say for sure is that he remains either unfulfilled potential or overhyped. If he can fulfil his potential he could bring something a bit different and I would love to see him succeed.

More to the winger role than tries of course, but his international tries smack a bit of flat track bully. Granted he’s had injuries etc but right now his record isn’t one of influencing big games.

AIs: One each against Jap, Aus and Arg

RWC warm ups: 1 against Wal, 2 in that hammering of Ire

RWC: 2 v USA

Summer tours: 2 v USA, 2 v Canada

6N: None
 
Old Hooker said:
I don’t really see it that way. You sometimes see him make ground in heavy traffic with a powerful hand off but I don’t actually see him as a particularly aggressive runner. At full pelt I’d expect him to break more tackles and make more ground than he does.

Others have rightly questioned his defence and his aerial game isn’t what you’d expect for a big guy. Some good offloading but the only thing we can say for sure is that he remains either unfulfilled potential or overhyped. If he can fulfil his potential he could bring something a bit different and I would love to see him succeed.

More to the winger role than tries of course, but his international tries smack a bit of flat track bully. Granted he’s had injuries etc but right now his record isn’t one of influencing big games.

AIs: One each against Jap, Aus and Arg

RWC warm ups: 1 against Wal, 2 in that hammering of Ire

RWC: 2 v USA

Summer tours: 2 v USA, 2 v Canada

6N: None
Click to expand...
2022 we had 0 winger tries with no Cokansiga. I don't think Cokanasiga was necessarily the problem. Also he only got 10 minutes against Wales and played the full game in the thrashing of Italy, where any tries he got would have been discounted anyway by the metric you are using. In what way is that a fair way to judge him? He's played a grand total of 90 minutes in the 6N. It's not his fault if the majority of his games have been against poor opposition.

2023-03-29_09h29_53.png

Those are his international games. Only the Feb and March 2019 were 6N games, with the loss to Wales being only 10 mins. Which good sides has he played outside that? You dismissed him against Australia, Japan, Ireland and Wales outside the 6N so what does that leave?
 
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Ragey Erasmus said:
2022 we had 0 winger tries with no Cokansiga. I don't think Cokanasiga was necessarily the problem. Also he only got 10 minutes against Wales and played the full game in the thrashing of Italy, where any tries he got would have been discounted anyway by the metric you are using. In what way is that a fair way to judge him? He's played a grand total of 90 minutes in the 6N. It's not his fault if the majority of his games have been against poor opposition.

View attachment 16521

Those are his international games. Only the Feb and March 2019 were 6N games, with the loss to Wales being only 10 mins. Which good sides has he played outside that? You dismissed him against Australia, Japan, Ireland and Wales outside the 6N so what does that leave?
Click to expand...
I think I’m arguing more with @Geordiefalcon who said Coka is proven. I don’t think he is. He can have very good moments, but his weaknesses can be evident at club level let alone the international stage.

I’m not dismissing him, but his game is a work in progress. His international career has been stop start, largely but not exclusively due to injury. His try ratio is very good, but you’d expect it to have been pretty similar for any other winger who’d played in those same games.

Be interesting to see what view Borthwick takes over time.
 

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