A big sign the Rugby Championship doesn't work

[bushytop]

I have only watched the whole Rugby Championship (every match) during the last two competitions, previously I would catch the odd match if I wasn't busy. It's probably unfair to make a judgement off those two seasons because the All Blacks have been so dominant but having been brought up watching first the 5N and now the 6 it (TRC) definitely feels like 'something' is missing.

The first Saturday of the 6N for me (& many others) is the equivalent off waking up on Christmas morning if you're age counts in single digits. I just don't get that vibe from the players or the crowds down South. Maybe it's the one teams dominance but more likely it is the time zone issues and distance between teams. Maybe it's the fact that a team that is potentially as strong as any has had to dilute its performances through a racial quota system that in the long term will probably be a great move but short term has been painful to watch. Maybe it's the fact that the Aussies just don't care. Probably a combination of all of those facts.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

For me the big issue is the scheduling. Same order of matches each year. Same weak Aussies effectively out of the competition after two weeks of facing the Kiwis. The third Bledisloe is terrible scheduling too. Obviously money is the main driver behind all of the above but is it any wonder interest in the game is struggling in Australia?

It's a good competition, but the rise of Wales, Ireland and Scotland to the level of Oz/SA has completely elevated the 6N above the RC in my opinion.

 

[unrated]

Maybe you guys feel the rivalries in the 6N is more intense or better because you are more emotionally involved with you own countries, whereas we find the rivalries in the RC more intense. Its matter of perspective.

 

[unrated]

BWAHAHAHAHA. They don't have that kind of power.

Yes they do. They are telling the players that their contracts are at risk if they play for their country. yes World rugby has regulation in place that compels clubs to release players during the International window but the Clubs can put pressure on the players to reject the calls or else, thats why we donts see guys like, Serfontein, Bismarck, and Steyn play for the Springboks because their clubs wont allow them.

 

[FrenchFan]

Yes they do. They are telling the players that their contracts are at risk if they play for their country. yes World rugby has regulation in place that compels clubs to release players during the International window but the Clubs can put pressure on the players to reject the calls or else, thats why we donts see guys like, Serfontein, Bismarck, and Steyn play for the Springboks because their clubs wont allow them.

Nice fairy tale. Clubs would be setting a dangerous precedent if they did. Word would be quickly out and damage their reputation. Those clubs could no longer recruit foreign internationals. And they'd be investigated by WR. Don't level accusations without proof.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Also debatable. 6 Nations have poor referees, and at times poor quality players too.

But at the same time, every year varies. I think this year SA and Argentina have really stepped up to where they were the last 2 seasons, and the the same can be said about a team like Italy.

It's also not always the scoreline that creates the intensity...

That's quite the sweeping statement while defending the RC who have Jaco Peyper and Glen Jackson as regulars and have had Aus, SA and Argentina pushing out ordinary players over the past few years.

Its unfortunate this thread was derailed by instantly comparing the RC to the 6n. The problems of the RC are unrelated.

As for all the **** slinging in here, I'd suggest that since the last RWC finished there's been a clear gap between the champions of the RC (NZ) and the champions of the 6n to the rest of those competitions participants - Australia are the only RC team to beat the 6n champions, they lost the series, Ireland are the only 6n team to beat NZ, they lost the next game. Prior to 2015 the Tri Nations sides could always play with anything Europe had to offer and were often too good, especially in the SH. As for the money in the French league, that's world rugby's biggest economy attracting the top players from smaller economies, blame capitalism.

 

[smartcooky]

last 2 games have been much closer. But they're the exception not the norm.

Fans don't like predictable results. And with NZ winning almost every time the RC has become very predictable.

On the other hand, not everyone watches rugby for the close results. I actually don't much care what the score is at the end (as long as my team wins of course).

No, I watch rugby for the outstanding running and ball control skills in the backs, for the innovative attacking ploys and defensive skills of the teams, and constant battle in all aspects of breakdown and set play, and the increasingly amazing ability of forwards, especially jerseys 1,2 and 3, to be ball running , offloading playmakers (without neglecting their core roles). For these aspects of the game, the Rugby Championship wins hands down in spades.

 

[smartcooky]

Nice fairy tale. Clubs would be setting a dangerous precedent if they did. Word would be quickly out and damage their reputation. Those clubs could no longer recruit foreign internationals. And they'd be investigated by WR. Don't level accusations without proof.

Back in about 2012/13 when Los Pumas joined the RC, there was an Argentine rugby player whose contract was terminated by his French club. That termination came suspiciously close on the heels of his making himself available for Los Pumas.

I personally know of three Pacific Island rugby players; two Samoans (the father of one is a rugby coach at a club here in Nelson) and one Fijian rugby player, who in 2013 were unofficially told by their French and Welsh clubs that it would be in their best interests to make themselves unavailable for their countries during the end of year tour that year.

 

[SomeOke]

The rugby championship is less emotionally intense because the ABs always win /end thread. This applies to AB fans as well, they expect to win so winning doesn't have the same savour.
I still enjoy the rugby, and think it's exciting but that's just how it is.

 

[FrenchFan]

Back in about 2012/13 when Los Pumas joined the RC, there was an Argentine rugby player whose contract was terminated by his French club. That termination came suspiciously close on the heels of his making himself available for Los Pumas.

I personally know of three Pacific Island rugby players; two Samoans (the father of one is a rugby coach at a club here in Nelson) and one Fijian rugby player, who in 2013 were unofficially told by their French and Welsh clubs that it would be in their best interests to make themselves unavailable for their countries during the end of year tour that year.

there's not a shred of evidence to support that. Nice fairy tale.

 

[FrenchFan]

No, I watch rugby for the outstanding running and ball control skills in the backs, for the innovative attacking ploys and defensive skills of the teams, and constant battle in all aspects of breakdown and set play, and the increasingly amazing ability of forwards, especially jerseys 1,2 and 3, to be ball running , offloading playmakers (without neglecting their core roles). For these aspects of the game, the Rugby Championship wins hands down in spades.

well yeah. If you don't have a contest there's not much else to look at is there.
With the declining number of challengers around, NZ are heading down the road of the HG Trotters. Exhibition of skills. Exhibition rugby. Yawn.

Fans want to see a real contest. This is true in any sport. With the odd exception, they're not going to get that in the RC.

 

[mdaclarke]

For me the big issue is the scheduling. Same order of matches each year. Same weak Aussies effectively out of the competition after two weeks of facing the Kiwis. The third Bledisloe is terrible scheduling too. Obviously money is the main driver behind all of the above but is it any wonder interest in the game is struggling in Australia?

It's a good competition, but the rise of Wales, Ireland and Scotland to the level of Oz/SA has completely elevated the 6N above the RC in my opinion.

Wales (sadly) and Scotland are not at the level of the Boks. Not convinced about Ireland either

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Wales (sadly) and Scotland are not at the level of the Boks. Not convinced about Ireland either

Well, I go by the rankings, which are the most objective and reliable indicator we have; but yes, the Boks have improved with a new coach and access to European based players (despite losing to an also improving Argentina).

I wouldn't bat an eyelid though if they lost to Scotland in November. Whereas five years ago that statement would have been absurd.

 

[TRF_heineken]

That's quite the sweeping statement while defending the RC who have Jaco Peyper and Glen Jackson as regulars and have had Aus, SA and Argentina pushing out ordinary players over the past few years.

Its unfortunate this thread was derailed by instantly comparing the RC to the 6n. The problems of the RC are unrelated.

As for all the **** slinging in here, I'd suggest that since the last RWC finished there's been a clear gap between the champions of the RC (NZ) and the champions of the 6n to the rest of those competitions participants - Australia are the only RC team to beat the 6n champions, they lost the series, Ireland are the only 6n team to beat NZ, they lost the next game. Prior to 2015 the Tri Nations sides could always play with anything Europe had to offer and were often too good, especially in the SH. As for the money in the French league, that's world rugby's biggest economy attracting the top players from smaller economies, blame capitalism.

It's a pity this thread was derailed yes, but it wasn't the SH posters who started the whole comparison though...

Yes, RC also have poor referees, while some are up and coming. But we've been stuck with NH referees too, like Poite, Raynar and Barnes and to some extent Owens.

After the last world cup South Africa have beaten France, Ireland and England in home series so don't give me that crap that we're not on par.

I hope that SA will continue to show their growth during the EOYT under Rassie's coaching.

 

[mdaclarke]

One thing I notice is that the 6N teams seem to peak between world cups whereas the RC teams peak at the world cup

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

It's a pity this thread was derailed yes, but it wasn't the SH posters who started the whole comparison though...

So... That doesn't mean you have to descend into defensive comments that don't really approach my point like the rest of this post. Or engage at all for that matter.

Yes, the RC also have poor referees, while some are up and coming. But we've been stuck with NH referees too, like Poite, Raynar and Barnes and to some extent Owens.

Firstly, Raynal and Barnes, as much as it pains me to say it, are two of the best in the business, Poite is serviceable and we all agree that Owens has lost the run of himself a wee bit on these boards. We have bad refs but you could have had more credibility to this post had you identified them. Secondly, the SH refs also ref in the 6n so I don't know what you're getting at there, I know that the English were very unhappy with Angus Gardner in their game against Ireland this year, I remember Jackson being criticised in 2017 etc...
Finally, these refs travel with the intention of attempting to make refereeing in both hemispheres the same. They're not bad, for the most part, they just have different interpretations from reffing different styles of rugby.

Since the last world cup South Africa have beaten France, Ireland and England in home series so don't give me that crap that we're not on par.

Well yeah, I never said you weren't on par with mid table 6 nations sides. Those tours were against sides who finished 3rd, 3rd and 5th and would go on to finished 2nd, 4th and TBC the following year.

You've had one game against the current champions you lost 37-21 and youe game against 'would be' champions was a 38-3 loss. To think SA have been on par with Europe's best in that time period is wide of the mark.

Between the 2003 and 2007 RWC Ireland beat SA in all of their home games and gave Australia a good beating in Dublin in 06, we're they ever on the level of the tri nations sides at the time? Not even close, home wins flattered to deceive and we never got close when traveling south.

I hope that SA will continue to show their growth during the EOYT under Rassie's coaching.

I personally don't considering Ireland v SA will likely happen and be a pivotal game for both sides in the next RWC but best of luck.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

...so, off line for a couple of days and everything turns to s...

I tried reading everything but so much seemed nothing to do with my original point I gave up

I see the 100k turn up for the afl final in Melbourne plus god knows how many thousand at party areas or just in pubs and compare it to how many kiwis that were barely aware if we'd already won it or we needed to win that last game and think what's the point

 

[Derpus]

...so, off line for a couple of days and everything turns to s...

I tried reading everything but so much seemed nothing to do with my original point I gave up

I see the 100k turn up for the afl final in Melbourne plus god knows how many thousand at party areas or just in pubs and compare it to how many kiwis that were barely aware if we'd already won it or we needed to win that last game and think what's the point

There isn't much to be said. NZ are just too consistently good for the competition to be interesting.

The essence of sport is competition, and while people go on about how great it is to watch the ability of the All Blacks, that can only carry the competition so far. There were some positive signs from the Springboks this year, but at the same time they lost winnable matches against the Pumas and the criminally poor Wallabies.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

i have to say im becoming a bit disheartened with SOME NZ fans. I see other sports where you still get then of thousands of fan turn up to watch a team at its lowest point because they like watching the sport (Carlton in the AFL this year for example) and then i see how many kiwi's (not all but more than i would like) only care about winning

 

[Derpus]

One thing I notice is that the 6N teams seem to peak between world cups whereas the RC teams peak at the world cup

Mid world cup cycle half the southern hemisphere players are in Europe. World Cup time they all head home for a tilt at the WC squad. NH teams only 'peak' when the south is depleted.

NZ manage to hold on to their best players because of the power of the AB jersey, just another reason why they are still so dominant. Wobs, SA and Argentina don't have that.