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The_Blindside

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Electoral college votes that is. Have a play around of the map. Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Arizona are toss ups and could go either way. if they all go Democrat then Trump loses bigly.
 

ragerancher

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No tax should be based on your age but I suppose just as I'm about to finish off paying my student tax they'd introduce another circumstance tax that whacks my generation and future ones.

This isn't me against taxes BTW they should be funded just the way they go about deciding who pays them, I don't understand why a 40 year old on minimum wage has to contribute but a 25 year old inherited millionaire does not.
The alternative way would be to have it as a separate tax in the same way as NIC but kicks in at a higher base salary (say £30k and above?) So that it should still hit roughly that demographic for poorer earners but can hit earlier for wealthier earners and not at all for the poorest? Either way in this country we seem to want to spend more and more for services but tax less and less. I think we as a nation need to just grow up and accept we can't have our cake and eat it.
 

ncurd

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The alternative way would be to have it as a separate tax in the same way as NIC but kicks in at a higher base salary (say £30k and above?) So that it should still hit roughly that demographic for poorer earners but can hit earlier for wealthier earners and not at all for the poorest? Either way in this country we seem to want to spend more and more for services but tax less and less. I think we as a nation need to just grow up and accept we can't have our cake and eat it.
Dunno why it needs to be a separate tax and why it can't just be income tax. I'd also scrap NI and blend it with income tax the fact there's an upper limit on what you pay into NI is frankly ********.

Yup this all costs money and we should damn well spend it but those who can afford it need to give more back into society than those who cannot. I'm not so left wing as to suggest everyone should have the same but wealth disparity between haves and have nots is ludicrous.
 

ragerancher

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Dunno why it needs to be a separate tax and why it can't just be income tax. I'd also scrap NI and blend it with income tax the fact there's an upper limit on what you pay into NI is frankly ********.

Yup this all costs money and we should damn well spend it but those who can afford it need to give more back into society than those who cannot. I'm not so left wing as to suggest everyone should have the same but wealth disparity between haves and have nots is ludicrous.
No argument about the ridiculous wealth disparity and the fact that a disproportionate amount of wealth has been hoarded by pretty much a single generation and the expense of both the preceding and succeeding ones. Only reason I suggest it be a separate tax is that governments just love ******* about with state pensions. As a separate tax it should simply be a case of what goes in is what comes out, there is no way to raise or lower the tax without raising or lowering the outgoings to match. It should not go into the central spending pot but should be used only to fund the care costs etc of older generations, nothing more and nothing less.

Ultimately the government needs to grow a pair and start tackling the ultra wealthy, but it won't happen with this government as they are too close to that segment of society. However the concept of the cost of caring for a generation that already had so much set up for their benefit again falling on the generations to follow would just be too much. Young people now have debt they will never pay off before they even start working in many cases and when buying a house will again need to take on debt that previously could have been paid off with an unskilled labour single household income salary, now you need a dual educated income to really stand a chance.
 

The_Blindside

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The problem with blending Income tax and NIC into one tax is those who reach retirement age stop paying NIC. And who are the voters who come out in force at general elections? Plus the legislation covering both is different. Although I wouldn’t be at all against both just being simplified. Just Governments have been reluctant to spend their legislative timetable doing so.

The thresholds for the two are currently have been aligned in recent years. Now it needs the rates for employees and self-employed to be aligned because self-employed are getting more social security benefits.


The triple lock on pensions is not sustainable and that has to go soon.

I think there are various other ways to increase revenue without increasing income tax. Tax relief on pension contributions for higher rate and additional rate payers is ripe for reform and simplification. Far too generous imo. And these aren’t the ones who need to be encouraged to save. It would save billions over many years.
 

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The problem with blending Income tax and NIC into one tax is those who reach retirement age stop paying NIC. And who are the voters who come out in force at general elections? Plus the legislation covering both is different. Although I wouldn’t be at all against both just being simplified. Just Governments have been reluctant to spend their legislative timetable doing so.

The thresholds for the two are currently have been aligned in recent years. Now it needs the rates for employees and self-employed to be aligned because self-employed are getting more social security benefits.


The triple lock on pensions is not sustainable and that has to go soon.

I think there are various other ways to increase revenue without increasing income tax. Tax relief on pension contributions for higher rate and additional rate payers is ripe for reform and simplification. Far too generous imo. And these aren’t the ones who need to be encouraged to save. It would save billions over many years.
One of the biggest issues is explaining it to the public in a way that makes sense and will be widely accepted. To start the opposition and the media will instantly claim that whoever is proposing it is going after people's money, especially if Labour are proposing the idea. On top, as I mentioned above, people in this country often vote with their wallet and think extremely short term. They would rather have a little more now and probably waste it, than invest in a comfortable retirement. This also applies to improving public services as a whole. For some reason in this country we seem to expect getting more for less and it just isn't viable. However, that doesn't stop people getting outraged when someone suggests taxing them more to make a better society. Look at the guy during the last election who was shouting at the Labour MP because he thought he wasn't in the top 5% of earners at 80k a year. He didn't have a clue how much less the majority of the people in this country earn and only saw it through his narrow lens. Of course he doesn't think he's rich, because the majority of people he probably works with or is friends with earn similar or much more.

The real problem is that we have created a political and financial system that is based purely on looking after yourself. Politics has slowly become more and more negative with politicians talking less about what they would actually do, but about what the opposition would do. Vote for us because if not the other guys will do this. As well, this is made worse our FPTP system which again recent evidence has shown it is creating more negative politics. Tactical voting where you don't vote for the party and policies you want, but the party most like to keep out the party you don't want. That's if you're lucky enough to be in a constituency where you vote can actually make a difference. You then combine this with a financial system that only measures growth and GDP to show how well an economy is doing.
This article here does a good job summing up the problems with this system: https://www.theguardian.com/comment...rics-gdp-economic-performance-social-progress
Our society is completely structured around people's individual wealth and doing what is best for yourself and your family. It's not sustainable and, especially with the climate crisis, it will all coming crashing down quite soon.
 

The_Blindside

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One of the biggest issues is explaining it to the public in a way that makes sense and will be widely accepted. To start the opposition and the media will instantly claim that whoever is proposing it is going after people's money, especially if Labour are proposing the idea. On top, as I mentioned above, people in this country often vote with their wallet and think extremely short term. They would rather have a little more now and probably waste it, than invest in a comfortable retirement. This also applies to improving public services as a whole. For some reason in this country we seem to expect getting more for less and it just isn't viable. However, that doesn't stop people getting outraged when someone suggests taxing them more to make a better society. Look at the guy during the last election who was shouting at the Labour MP because he thought he wasn't in the top 5% of earners at 80k a year. He didn't have a clue how much less the majority of the people in this country earn and only saw it through his narrow lens. Of course he doesn't think he's rich, because the majority of people he probably works with or is friends with earn similar or much more.

The real problem is that we have created a political and financial system that is based purely on looking after yourself. Politics has slowly become more and more negative with politicians talking less about what they would actually do, but about what the opposition would do. Vote for us because if not the other guys will do this. As well, this is made worse our FPTP system which again recent evidence has shown it is creating more negative politics. Tactical voting where you don't vote for the party and policies you want, but the party most like to keep out the party you don't want. That's if you're lucky enough to be in a constituency where you vote can actually make a difference. You then combine this with a financial system that only measures growth and GDP to show how well an economy is doing.
This article here does a good job summing up the problems with this system: https://www.theguardian.com/comment...rics-gdp-economic-performance-social-progress
Our society is completely structured around people's individual wealth and doing what is best for yourself and your family. It's not sustainable and, especially with the climate crisis, it will all coming crashing down quite soon.
Absolutely. I remember when I did A-level politics way back when and our politics teacher drew a picture of a pollster asking a voter what issues will determine how they will vote. He drew speech bubbles of the voter saying “NHS, Crime, alleviating poverty.” But then drew a thought bubble coming from the voter’s head with the thought “lower taxes.” it made the point.

The tax legislation is 22000 pages and counting and even confuses the hell out of me and I’ve been working in tax for 15 years. How the hell is the ordinary person going to understand it. I can tell you most of my clients do not read their tax return or even the e-mail I send them attaching it. They just look at the bottom figure they have to pay and when. They are just not interested until their bill goes up astronomically and they don’t have the money to pay it.

There is no thought of how we tax as a country and making it far too Over complicated. Some of it to do with trying to make the system fair (which overcomplicates it further) but mostly successive Governments don’t give a **** and just add and change tax legalislation each year as part of the finance bills because they know almost certainly it will pass through Parliament.

it’s only going to get more complicated from now on having to pay for the astronomical costs of Covid. But I would also say that no Government is going to please everyone with how they go about doing it. At the end of the day it will be politics that determines who they choose to tax more and let the groups get away with because they will kick up more of a fuss in greater numbers. Plus major corporates who will just threaten to take their Business elsewhere and hold the Government to ransom over jobs.
 

The_Blindside

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45C9DABB-1825-4188-83EF-59616DA21E95.jpeg

tax legislation for income tax, NIC, CGT, IHT, corporation taxes. This also includes Statutory instruments (secondary legislation/delegated which is brought into law without the need for parliament approval) and also European material and guidance notes.

Also These books also don’t even cover another major tax and revenue raiser VAT, which is another 2 fat orange books.

Managed to dig out a pic of the books from 2007 where the yellow books are the equivalent of above 13 years ago, just to give anyone an idea how UK tax legislation has proliferated and why UK probably has the longest tax legislation in the world:
5B771336-C818-4CDD-9D26-B025D7F01DCE.jpeg
 
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Yulia

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View attachment 8310

tax legislation for income tax, NIC, CGT, IHT, corporation taxes. This also includes Statutory instruments (secondary legislation/delegated which is brought into law without the need for parliament approval) and also European material and guidance notes.

Also These books also don’t even cover another major tax and revenue raiser VAT, which is another 2 fat orange books.

Managed to dig out a pic of the books from 2007 where the yellow books are the equivalent of above 13 years ago, just to give anyone an idea how UK tax legislation has proliferated and why UK probably has the longest tax legislation in the world:
View attachment 8312
Do you collect these books? Looks like something interesting to read during weekends :D
 

The_Blindside

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Do you collect these books? Looks like something interesting to read during weekends :D
The books I have at present I “borrowed” from work. Otherwise they would have cost me £185, with a student discount. Well I have marked them so they are not getting them back Lol. They refused to buy me my own set and these books will get replaced with a new set when the Finance Act 2020, which only came into force 6 days ago anyway.

I need them for my exams which I am taking, and yes reading them sends me to sleep lol most nights and the weekends.
 

ragerancher

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View attachment 8310

tax legislation for income tax, NIC, CGT, IHT, corporation taxes. This also includes Statutory instruments (secondary legislation/delegated which is brought into law without the need for parliament approval) and also European material and guidance notes.

Also These books also don’t even cover another major tax and revenue raiser VAT, which is another 2 fat orange books.

Managed to dig out a pic of the books from 2007 where the yellow books are the equivalent of above 13 years ago, just to give anyone an idea how UK tax legislation has proliferated and why UK probably has the longest tax legislation in the world:
View attachment 8312
Sweet Jesus
 

ncurd

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On one hand with a prime example of why our tax system needs simplifying on the other we also want to Blindside out of a job by understand all that stuff.
 

The_Blindside

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On one hand with a prime example of why our tax system needs simplifying on the other we also want to Blindside out of a job by understand all that stuff.
Hahaha and yep, I am fully aware that I am part of the hypocrisy that is the system created to provide jobs in accountancy and the legal profession. Even our main tax partner thinks it’s ridiculous how much legislation has proliferated. But the more complex it is the more the wealthy will try and game the system and that‘s where accountants and tax lawyers make their living from, by charging hefty fees to decipher the more complex aspects of it.
 

ragerancher

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In other news, trump and his slobbering younger namesake both retweeted a tweet by a "doctor" who said masks didn't work, hydroxychloroquine was a cute to the virus and that all attempts to do anything else were lies. That alone would be bad enough but some people did some digging, this "doctor" also claimed that gynecological problems are cause by people dreaming about having sex with demons and witches, alien DNA is used in medical treatments, scientist are making a vaccine against religion and that lizard people run part of the US government. What ******* insane times do we live in!?
 
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Reiser99

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:rolleyes: And walking out from his press briefing when challenged on it.
I really would love to know how he will be remembered in history, especially if current video evidence is well preserved, how can anyone look at it objectively and not ask 'wtf?'?
 

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I really would love to know how he will be remembered in history, especially if current video evidence is well preserved, how can anyone look at it objectively and not ask 'wtf?'?
People will completely forget all that in 10-15 years, when there will be another idiot, I think. Maybe even earlier..and he will become just an "average president"
 

The_Blindside

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I really would love to know how he will be remembered in history, especially if current video evidence is well preserved, how can anyone look at it objectively and not ask 'wtf?'?
I am hoping in the immediate future like in the 3 and bit months like this

 

The_Blindside

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Trump's done it before and will do it again. He's a coward and that's what they do.

Yes, let’s not forget he did it two months ago after making a snide racist reply to the American Chinese reporter for daring to ask a question he did not like.
 
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