• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

A Political Thread

TRF_heineken

RIP #J9
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Messages
11,469
Reaction score
1,257
Country Flag

South Africa

Club or Nation

South Africa

That's sort of besides the point, the US likes to style itself as the leader of the free world and the most developed nation on the planet. If you compare their president to that you'd find in the 3rd world, in most people's books that would be deemed a huge failure.

Yes things could be worse. Imagine what worse would look like and then imagine Trump has 4 more years. given the damage he has done in 4 already, that is a real possibility. The USA may still be in a better place but the rate at which Trump and his administration are destroying the system is unprecedented, even Nixon didn't cause that much damage. Do you propose Trump is given a free rein until he is literally the worst president on the entire planet or do you think he should be held to a higher standards as befitting his position?

And why is it a bad thing to cosy up to Dictators, and being more harshly towards Allies?

Seriously? You are right, you really do look at this through a different lens. There is an argument for treating dictators better to change their ways, Trump isn't doing that. If anything he is doing the opposite, he is trying to adopt their ways and has openly stated so. There is also an argument to be made for ensuring allies pull their weight, for example Trump is correct in saying Europe has not been pulling its weight when it has come to military spending and has relied on the USA to do the military work whilst sitting on the sidelines tutting. However Trump isn't doing that, he has attacked allied leaders personally, he has weighed in on domestic affairs that are none of his business, he has been petty and he has sabotaged the actions of allied nations. He treats America's traditional enemies better than he treats Americas traditional allies. That's sort of the whole point of having allies...

For Trump to send a delegation here, just to investigate what's going on in the agriculture sector, including the farm murders, just shows that he's taking things seriously abroad

White people potentially being murdered by black people, can't see why that might be a pet project of his... Notice the consistent themes in what he does and doesn't decide to investigate? Clue, it is NOTHING to do with the relative merits or any sense of justice, it is about stroking his ego and proving to himself what he already believes.
I guess the conservative lens of mine would never stack up to the liberal lens of yours. And that's okay. We all can't be the same with the same values and ideologies.

I for one think it's about time the cages are rattled. Keeping people on their toes and being unorthodox. Being a president of such a big country can't be an easy job, and I for one can think of many people worse than Trump in that position. All presidents make mistakes, they are human after all.

I mean, we had Nelson Mandela as president, and while he's still a beloved leader by many, many people forget that he was a mass murderer and a bomb-maker. But people tend to look at just the good part of his life and not the bad. Perspectives are different, and I'm okay with that.
 

ragerancher

International
TRF Legend
Joined
Sep 20, 2011
Messages
5,494
Reaction score
1,684
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Bath

I guess the conservative lens of mine would never stack up to the liberal lens of yours. And that's okay. We all can't be the same with the same values and ideologies.

I for one think it's about time the cages are rattled. Keeping people on their toes and being unorthodox. Being a president of such a big country can't be an easy job, and I for one can think of many people worse than Trump in that position. All presidents make mistakes, they are human after all.

I mean, we had Nelson Mandela as president, and while he's still a beloved leader by many, many people forget that he was a mass murderer and a bomb-maker. But people tend to look at just the good part of his life and not the bad. Perspectives are different, and I'm okay with that.

The problem is your "shakeup" is resulting in attempts to sabotage the democratic system, destruction of the US postal service, mass polarisation of society, extensive criminal activity by those surrounding the president, politically motivated murders and death toll from a virus going into the hundreds of thousands. That's a price you think is worth paying to "shake things up"? Besides showing just how bad it can get and needing to address things to prevent it happening again, just what has this shakeup improved? This is not a liberal vs conservative issue, what Trump has done is objectively wrong.

Many people worse than Trump? Like who? Making mistakes is one thing, Trump is being actively malicious. That is a VERY different kettle of fish. His constant lying is not a mistake, it's a choice (or a compulsive habit he has absolutely no control over, not that that is better). To dismiss what Trump is doing wrong as just "mistakes" is frankly ******* pathetic. The fact you try to portray this as a simple case of different ideologies is ******* pathetic. I know plenty of conservatives I disagree with but that's about the extent of it, Trump is NOT someone who merely holds different views, he is someone who is fundamentally opposed to huge swathes of accepted norms on decency. Do you think persistent lying is ok? Do you think childish name calling is ok? Do you think knowingly letting thousands die is ok? Do you think using a country's justice system as your own personal means of enforcing a vendetta is ok? Do you think hiring someone to play the part of your opponent so you can role play shouting and firing them is ok? Do you think engaging in criminal activity is ok? Do you think all of those are merely matters of ideology and that those actions are those of people on the right wing? For **** sake man stop making excuses.
 

Which Tyler

First XV
TRF Legend
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Messages
4,921
Reaction score
1,714
Country Flag

England

Club or Nation

Bath

The problem is your "shakeup" is resulting in attempts to sabotage the democratic system, destruction of the US postal service, mass polarisation of society, extensive criminal activity by those surrounding the president, politically motivated murders and death toll from a virus going into the hundreds of thousands. That's a price you think is worth paying to "shake things up"? Besides showing just how bad it can get and needing to address things to prevent it happening again, just what has this shakeup improved? This is not a liberal vs conservative issue, what Trump has done is objectively wrong.

Many people worse than Trump? Like who? Making mistakes is one thing, Trump is being actively malicious. That is a VERY different kettle of fish. His constant lying is not a mistake, it's a choice (or a compulsive habit he has absolutely no control over, not that that is better). To dismiss what Trump is doing wrong as just "mistakes" is frankly ******* pathetic. The fact you try to portray this as a simple case of different ideologies is ******* pathetic. I know plenty of conservatives I disagree with but that's about the extent of it, Trump is NOT someone who merely holds different views, he is someone who is fundamentally opposed to huge swathes of accepted norms on decency. Do you think persistent lying is ok? Do you think childish name calling is ok? Do you think knowingly letting thousands die is ok? Do you think using a country's justice system as your own personal means of enforcing a vendetta is ok? Do you think hiring someone to play the part of your opponent so you can role play shouting and firing them is ok? Do you think engaging in criminal activity is ok? Do you think all of those are merely matters of ideology and that those actions are those of people on the right wing? For **** sake man stop making excuses.
But none of that matters, so long as it upsets liberals.
That's literally the only thing that counts.

 
Last edited:

TRF_heineken

RIP #J9
TRF Legend
TRF Supporter
Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Messages
11,469
Reaction score
1,257
Country Flag

South Africa

Club or Nation

South Africa

The problem is your "shakeup" is resulting in attempts to sabotage the democratic system, destruction of the US postal service, mass polarisation of society, extensive criminal activity by those surrounding the president, politically motivated murders and death toll from a virus going into the hundreds of thousands. That's a price you think is worth paying to "shake things up"? Besides showing just how bad it can get and needing to address things to prevent it happening again, just what has this shakeup improved? This is not a liberal vs conservative issue, what Trump has done is objectively wrong.

Many people worse than Trump? Like who? Making mistakes is one thing, Trump is being actively malicious. That is a VERY different kettle of fish. His constant lying is not a mistake, it's a choice (or a compulsive habit he has absolutely no control over, not that that is better). To dismiss what Trump is doing wrong as just "mistakes" is frankly ******* pathetic. The fact you try to portray this as a simple case of different ideologies is ******* pathetic. I know plenty of conservatives I disagree with but that's about the extent of it, Trump is NOT someone who merely holds different views, he is someone who is fundamentally opposed to huge swathes of accepted norms on decency. Do you think persistent lying is ok? Do you think childish name calling is ok? Do you think knowingly letting thousands die is ok? Do you think using a country's justice system as your own personal means of enforcing a vendetta is ok? Do you think hiring someone to play the part of your opponent so you can role play shouting and firing them is ok? Do you think engaging in criminal activity is ok? Do you think all of those are merely matters of ideology and that those actions are those of people on the right wing? For **** sake man stop making excuses.
There is really no need to be so aggressive and antagonising against me.

Lying??? Show me a politician that isn't a lying mother******...

Mass polarisation of society is the norm in many countries at the moment. It's not exclusive to the US. Extensive criminal activity by those surrounding the president, again, not exclusive to the US. Politically motivated murders, as old as time, not exclusive to the US, and happened even before Trump was President. Rising death toll of a Virus with no exact cure, NOT EXCLUSIVE TO THE US.

All these things you mentioned are happening all over the world, and in some cases to a much larger extent per capita than the US.
 
Top