A Political Thread

[McTallshort]

Tories the second party of Scotland. Never thought I would ever see that

 

[ncurd]

TBF it's second in seats on popular vote it's labour....just.

Scotland's a weird place poltically right now. It appears everyone who wants an independant Scotland is voting SNP but they still just shy of getting the mahority of popular vote meaning they'd like loose another referendum.

This means every other party is after the scraps that remain and you'll get the odd freak result due to local politics but I imagine seeing Scotland in yellow will remain for years to come.

Due to this Labour and LD have effectively been snuffed out of Scotland and that leaves the Tories getting their traditional votes.


The odd thing is what does to the makeup of parliment which from now on will almost certainly be hung or Tory majority can't see us having a second party purely in control ever again. the only thing that will change that will be if the Conservative ever fragment properly like what threatened to happen with UKIP.



Proves Corbyn is the Trump of Britain though superb core base within his own party but won't be able to translate that to entire nation.

 

[Peat]

The normal rule of politics would suggest that a party that's been in power as long as the SNP is starting to outwear its welcome and you could argue that the failure to gain a Holyrood majority is a sign of that. Interesting to see whether it will work out that way.

Also, even an SNP dominated Scotland doesn't have to mean only Tories. This Labour party doesn't look like doing it, but Labour has won elections without needing a single Scottish vote before.

I've come to the conclusion that this has been a bad night for Labour as it's neither provided the triumph to ignite Corbyn's campaign, or the disaster to end it. Instead the civil war grinds on.

 

[j'nuh]

People forget that SNP used to be a party of the centre-right. They have drifted to the left, occupying Labour's political territory. In this election, between SNP, Labour and Greens, you have 67.4% of voters in Scotland. It's a massively crowded area of the political spectrum. Doesn't surprise me whatsoever that the Tories are getting a bit of a foothold now.

If SNP were to implode (for whatever reason), Labour would re-establish itself as the dominant party in Scotland. Also, importantly, Labour can form coalitions with SNP and Tories can't.

In fact, Tories only have DUP (and maybe UKIP if they ever start gaining seats) as potential coalition allies. Lib Dems are not going to want a repeat, and neither Plaid Cymru nor SNP could work. Tories effectively have to win the election outright in England, since Labour will have the power in a hung Parliament.

The political landscape is going to change after the EU referendum. No matter what happens, the topic of the EU will die down, and it's anyone's guess as to who will benefit from that.

 

[j'nuh]

Watched QT.

Impressed by Nandy. She would make a good Labour leader.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07bgnkn/hillsborough

For those in the UK well worth watching this superb, powerful and compelling documentary on Hillsborough and how events unfolded leading to the deaths of 96 fans, the effects on the injured, their families and even Bobbies involved on the day, but also how this is probably the biggest miscarriage of justice in British legal history.

Now uploaded to YouTube if you don't have access to bbc iplayer

*Warning: there are images of the crushing that took place on the day*

[video=youtube_share;qBbifoVdyGM]http://youtu.be/qBbifoVdyGM[/video]

 

[j'nuh]

Why is it that racism bounces off the Conservative Party but does not for the Labour Party? Contrasting the recent high-profile cases, Zac Goldsmith's campaign, and the antisemitic claims by some Labour party members.

Zac's campaign was coordinated by a campaign team, making his racism a conscious decision by the wider party. The Labour comments come from individuals acting out of line.
Zac is pardoned by Osborne, who predicts Zac to have a big role in the Tory party in the future. Labour suspends the party members who acted out of line.
Yet everywhere is in meltdown about an "antisemitism problem" in the Labour party, whilst Zac's campaign is broadly forgotten about.

Why the double standards? (Not pardoning Labour here, just trying to understand why racism just doesn't stick to a party which clearly has its own problems with it.)

 

[McTallshort]

What did Goldsmith say that was racist?

 

[ncurd]

What did Goldsmith say that was racist?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...ZAC-GOLDSMITH-four-days-Mayoral-election.html

I think trying to link Khan to Islamic Extremism and terrorists terrorists by posting picture of 7/7 bombings when he's progressive Muslim is quite shameful. Even if he doesn't outright say it the implication is quite clearly there and the campaign quite frequently tried to do it. So whilst not saying he's tried to say all Muslim's are terrorists and that is racism.

 

[McTallshort]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...ZAC-GOLDSMITH-four-days-Mayoral-election.html

I think trying to link Khan to Islamic Extremism and terrorists terrorists by posting picture of 7/7 bombings when he's progressive Muslim is quite shameful. Even if he doesn't outright say it the implication is quite clearly there and the campaign quite frequently tried to do it. So whilst not saying he's tried to say all Muslim's are terrorists and that is racism.

And the result was he was made to look a fool and lost. He isn't racist he's just an out of touch fool who was shown up by the better man. Old red Ken isn't antisemitic he just doesn't like Israel unfortunately this country loves to brand people and it comes from everywhere, the right wing press to the liberal media. People on all sides should grow up.

 

[Peat]

Why is it that racism bounces off the Conservative Party but does not for the Labour Party? Contrasting the recent high-profile cases, Zac Goldsmith's campaign, and the antisemitic claims by some Labour party members.

Zac's campaign was coordinated by a campaign team, making his racism a conscious decision by the wider party. The Labour comments come from individuals acting out of line.
Zac is pardoned by Osborne, who predicts Zac to have a big role in the Tory party in the future. Labour suspends the party members who acted out of line.
Yet everywhere is in meltdown about an "antisemitism problem" in the Labour party, whilst Zac's campaign is broadly forgotten about.

Why the double standards? (Not pardoning Labour here, just trying to understand why racism just doesn't stick to a party which clearly has its own problems with it.)

Because the Tory party has more of the media onside and less of its members care about racism (anyone care to guess how many constituencies Michael Howard had to ask before being accepted as a candidate for the Tory party?)

Also, in this case, they can hardly hang Zac out to dry as then he might start talking about just who gave him ideas for the campaign. I mean, it is slightly suspicious that a man who built his entire career on being very liberal for a Tory all of a sudden comes out swinging like that...

And yeah, it was a racist campaign. When not playing the "Muslim = Terrorist" card, he was busy assuming all people of sub-continental descent were big on their family jewellery and sending out leaflets targeting people by ethnicity (only to send them out to people of the wrong ethnicity). Oh! And there was the Bollywood thing too. I'm willing to believe that Goldsmith is not himself racist but he was definitely head of a racist campaign.

I am less willing to believe that Livingstone is not anti-Semitic. Too many weird things concerning Jews and Nazis have come out of his mouth over too extended a time period.

 

[ncurd]

Because the Tory party has more of the media onside and less of its members care about racism (anyone care to guess how many constituencies Michael Howard had to ask before being accepted as a candidate for the Tory party?)

Also, in this case, they can hardly hang Zac out to dry as then he might start talking about just who gave him ideas for the campaign. I mean, it is slightly suspicious that a man who built his entire career on being very liberal for a Tory all of a sudden comes out swinging like that...

And yeah, it was a racist campaign. When not playing the "Muslim = Terrorist" card, he was busy assuming all people of sub-continental descent were big on their family jewellery and sending out leaflets targeting people by ethnicity (only to send them out to people of the wrong ethnicity). Oh! And there was the Bollywood thing too. I'm willing to believe that Goldsmith is not himself racist but he was definitely head of a racist campaign.

I am less willing to believe that Livingstone is not anti-Semitic. Too many weird things concerning Jews and Nazis have come out of his mouth over too extended a time period.

What I don't understand it why they felt this campaign would work? Londoners for the most part are very proud of it's multicultural nature in the way the London mayoral elections works your not going to succeed the appealing to a large minority (in this case people with strong Islamaphobia). It might have worked 11 years ago but this time round was absolute insanity.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

What I don't understand it why they felt this campaign would work? Londoners for the most part are very proud of it's multicultural nature in the way the London mayoral elections works your not going to succeed the appealing to a large minority (in this case people with strong Islamaphobia). It might have worked 11 years ago but this time round was absolute insanity.

You're implying that tories are in anyway connected to or knowledgeable about the general public.

 

[McTallshort]

Weird because they fought a very successful campaign in Scotland without all the smear stuff. Lesson there I suppose

 

[psychic duck]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...ZAC-GOLDSMITH-four-days-Mayoral-election.html

I think trying to link Khan to Islamic Extremism and terrorists terrorists by posting picture of 7/7 bombings when he's progressive Muslim is quite shameful. Even if he doesn't outright say it the implication is quite clearly there and the campaign quite frequently tried to do it. So whilst not saying he's tried to say all Muslim's are terrorists and that is racism.

In fairness, whilst he's obviously not himself an Islamist, Sajid Khan attended a multitude of Islamist events and gave nods to some incredibly vulgar characters. If any politician had spoken at a white nativist event then questions would rightly be asked, even if they weren't one themselves. It's not racist just because in this instance the far right bigots happen to be non-white.

 

[Groundhog]

Saw a protest video earlier from some woman in BNP or one of those pricks. Her words said "Christian country" but her face said "I huff glue and lost my V plates in a Morrisons car park when I was 13"

 

[ncurd]

In fairness, whilst he's obviously not himself an Islamist, Sajid Khan attended a multitude of Islamist events and gave nods to some incredibly vulgar characters. If any politician had spoken at a white nativist event then questions would rightly be asked, even if they weren't one themselves. It's not racist just because in this instance the far right bigots happen to be non-white.

Did he? or are beliving what dodgy Dave retracted after the vote?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36272269

- - - Updated - - -

Saw a protest video earlier from some woman in BNP or one of those pricks. Her words said "Christian country" but her face said "I huff glue and lost my V plates in a Morrisons car park when I was 13"

I hate the term Christian Country mainly because I'm not Christian and my family is British to quite aways back (the SA part is literally for 1 generation born there).

I prefer British values which stem from Christian teachings.

 

[psychic duck]

Did he? or are beliving what dodgy Dave retracted after the vote?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36272269

Did he go to Islamist events and give nods towards some extremely foul and unpleasant characters? Yes, countless times. Questioning of his judgement in doing so is entirely warranted.

 

[McTallshort]

Same as corybn sitting and posing for photos with Jerry Adams and Martin McGuiness during the heights of a main land bombing campaign.

 

[psychic duck]

Same as corybn sitting and posing for photos with Jerry Adams and Martin McGuiness during the heights of a main land bombing campaign.

Corbyn is a joke and has had loads of cases like that. He has literally buddied up with Islamists who call for things such as homosexuality to be punished by death (among other things) and in his own words called them 'very good friends'.