A Political Thread

[ncurd]

Yes polls by left wing and right wing media are going to be that far out.....

I like your delusion though because most people think Trump is a far bigger threat to world security than Clinton.

 

[austingtir]

Yes polls by left wing and right wing media are going to be that far out.....

I like your delusion though because most people think Trump is a far bigger threat to world security than Clinton.

How do you figure that on trump being the bigger threat? Just sounds to me like the typical attitude of the spoon fed millenial to me.

A Clinton term is almost certain to bring about a major confrontation with Russia or another world power like China. All of Trumps talk about Russia has been the complete opposite he seems to think he'll get along just fine with Putin. Why not give him a shot??

Clinton will continue with the missile defence shield which is only a step towards a full blown showdown with Russia. Theres no if's buts or maybes that will happen if they keep pushing Russia's buttons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqD8lIdIMRo

Putin doesnt strike me as the type to act like that for no reason he sounds serious. If I was Polish or Romanian I would be very concerned.

 

[ncurd]

Man it takes a real tin foil hat to think someone with the proven temperament of a toddler is a lesser threat to world security than Clinton.

All yours post is full of conjecture the USA are Russia are nowhere near coming to blows. And I fail to see how they would considering tensions between the two are nowhere near what they were like during the cold war.

 

[austingtir]

Man it takes a real tin foil hat to think someone with the proven temperament of a toddler is a lesser threat to world security than Clinton.

All yours post is full of conjecture the USA are Russia are nowhere near coming to blows. And I fail to see how they would considering tensions between the two are nowhere near what they were like during the cold war.

Your simply blind then. They are clearly heading in the same direction as what brought about the cold war they may not be there yet but certainly heading down the same path.

You really buy the main scream media BS about Trump running around firing off nukes willy nilly dont you?

 

[ncurd]

As you're thick as two shorts planks you haven't noticed I didn't mention thermo nuclear war you did.

I question the temperamane of a man who feels the need to lash out on twitter and in public on anything than irks him. Your then going to give that man one of the largest armed forces in the world. God know how he's going to react to a 9/11 style attack or even something far smaller.

And stop suggesting I'm spoon fed from the media as all your do is spout right wing media drivel.

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They are clearly heading in the same direction as what brought about the cold war they may not be there yet but certainly heading down the same path.

Sorry just realise what you said.

The Russian's people have risen and taken over country and instilled a form a communism, have they? Which is a direct difference of opinion to the USA's capitalism model?
How about the entire world has just left a stage of total war which has dramatically changed the balance of power in Europe, ending European colonialism and in turn creating massive power vacuum which the previous isolationist US now wants to fill.
Russia taken over most of Eastern Europe?

Man I've missed a lot of world events. We are no where near the events that led to the cold war.

 

[austingtir]

As you're thick as two shorts planks you haven't noticed I didn't mention thermo nuclear war you did.

I question the temperamane of a man who feels the need to lash out on twitter and in public on anything than irks him. Your then going to give that man one of the largest armed forces in the world. God know how he's going to react to a 9/11 style attack or even something far smaller.

And stop suggesting I'm spoon fed from the media as all your do is spout right wing media drivel.

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Sorry just realise what you said.

The Russian's people have risen and taken over country and instilled a form a communism, have they? Which is a direct difference of opinion to the USA's capitalism model?
How about the entire world has just left a stage of total war which has dramatically changed the balance of power in Europe, ending European colonialism and in turn creating massive power vacuum which the previous isolationist US now wants to fill.
Russia taken over most of Eastern Europe?

Man I've missed a lot of world events. We are no where near the events that led to the cold war.

No you missed the bit where America become the communists (they aint all communists just Obummer, hillary, the dems and a few republicans) and Russia has the democratically elected govt.^_^

 

[ncurd]

Man you think America is left wing

I might **** myself laughing.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

BLM in the UK been watching and reading to much American history, today was a step in the wrong direction by them IMO.

I'm sure racism exists in the uk as it does in every country bu there is only so much a government can do, but the argument that there is too many black men in custody compared to other demographic does not mean racism in the justice system, I mean how many of those are wrongly accused and how many are in for a real reason?

Compared to America it is a pin drop.

 

[McTallshort]

As you're thick as two shorts planks you haven't noticed I didn't mention thermo nuclear war you did.

I question the temperamane of a man who feels the need to lash out on twitter and in public on anything than irks him. Your then going to give that man one of the largest armed forces in the world. God know how he's going to react to a 9/11 style attack or even something far smaller.

And stop suggesting I'm spoon fed from the media as all your do is spout right wing media drivel.

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Sorry just realise what you said.

The Russian's people have risen and taken over country and instilled a form a communism, have they? Which is a direct difference of opinion to the USA's capitalism model?
How about the entire world has just left a stage of total war which has dramatically changed the balance of power in Europe, ending European colonialism and in turn creating massive power vacuum which the previous isolationist US now wants to fill.
Russia taken over most of Eastern Europe?

Man I've missed a lot of world events. We are no where near the events that led to the cold war.

Although lots of what austingtir writes is frankly ******** I do think a confrontation between Russia and the West is on the cards and we have already seen this in the Ukraine and Syria and its going to get worse unless someone from the west (USA most likely) sits down and talks to Putin. Russia aggressive foreign policy needs to be curtailed but not confronted and the EU needs to back off any new membership in Eastern Europe.

People have to understand the Russians just don't want what we want and unless we can find a way of working together there really could be a similar situation as I grew up with in the 70s and 80s but instead of the Soviets reacting to threats from NATO (mainly the US) it would be us reacting to Russian aggression similar to what we saw in the Ukraine.


I think Putin saw a weak president in Obarma and he was correct in that presumption.

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BLM in the UK been watching and reading to much American history, today was a step in the wrong direction by them IMO.

I'm sure racism exists in the uk as it does in every country bu there is only so much a government can do, but the argument that there is too many black men in custody compared to other demographic does not mean racism in the justice system, I mean how many of those are wrongly accused and how many are in for a real reason?

Compared to America it is a pin drop.

Black culture in the US is completely different to that in the UK, for a start most Black people from the USA are descended from Slavery and that forms a big part of their culture and heritage plus you have had in large parts of the US an apart ide system similar to the one that existed in SA. Black Culture in the UK is more about immigration from the West Indies and Africa and it creates a completely different mindset, yes there have been growing pains but on the whole west Indian/African immigrants are completely integrated into UK society.

 

[ncurd]

The Chimera incident was vastly complicated by ethnic Russian's in the area. Not that I think Putin was right in how he went about his actions. However I think Obama and the West applied about much pressure as they could without going into a fully blown conflict. Economic sanctions have had some effect.

Syria's just a ****storm.

I don't the EU plans to being any of the 6 currently applying countries in the near future but it shouldn't try to wind up Russia by suggesting they might.

I think Russia and China are always going to be difficult (superpowers always will be) the key things is to do our level best not to get into another bloody ******* contest. Try to work harder on joint venture's like the ISS.

However I do think the main mentality now is to avoid conflict as much as possible unlike it was. Trump I'm 99% sure isn't the man for that taking a touch stance with Russia will only agitate them further (which is why Putin like Trump he'll play right into his hands). It's one hell of a fine line between being too passive and too aggressive. Clinton's the best choice america has on this although I think they could of done a lot better than choice they've given themselves.

 

[McTallshort]

The Chimera incident was vastly complicated by ethnic Russian's in the area. Not that I think Putin was right in how he went about his actions. However I think Obama and the West applied about much pressure as they could without going into a fully blown conflict. Economic sanctions have had some effect.

Syria's just a ****storm.

I don't the EU plans to being any of the 6 currently applying countries in the near future but it shouldn't try to wind up Russia by suggesting they might.

I think Russia and China are always going to be difficult (superpowers always will be) the key things is to do our level best not to get into another bloody ******* contest. Try to work harder on joint venture's like the ISS.

However I do think the main mentality now is to avoid conflict as much as possible unlike it was. Trump I'm 99% sure isn't the man for that taking a touch stance with Russia will only agitate them further (which is why Putin like Trump he'll play right into his hands). It's one hell of a fine line between being too passive and too aggressive. Clinton's the best choice america has on this although I think they could of done a lot better than choice they've given themselves.

The Crimea was Russia securing a warm water port, the ethnic make up was made up to cloud things but it was Russia looking after its interests pure and simple. The Russians used to be very wary of upsetting the Americans during the cold war because America was far more aggressive in it foreign policy but several decades of expensive wars, bad military procurement and mounting debt have weakened the USA more than many realise. Obarma also is a manufactured President who can say all the right things to the press etc but doesn't have the nouce to deal with a far more intelligent and ruthless head of state such as Putin.

The Crimea has been building up over time, the Russians have been pushing things and no one has really pushed back so they get themselves into a position where they can overrun half a sovereign state knowing nothing will really happen.

 

[ncurd]

Obarma also is a manufactured President who can say all the right things to the press etc but doesn't have the nouce to deal with a far more intelligent and ruthless head of state such as Putin.

Obama is more of a domestic president hampered by a hostile congress. he was pretty much elected on a platform of stopping foreign wars so it's understandable he doesn't really have the mandate of dealing with the Russian's.

I;m also at a loss to think what he could of done short of sending troops.

 

[McTallshort]

Obama is more of a domestic president hampered by a hostile congress. he was pretty much elected on a platform of stopping foreign wars so it's understandable he doesn't really have the mandate of dealing with the Russian's.

I;m also at a loss to think what he could of done short of sending troops.

Your missig the point. Russia have been getting very brazen for a number of years now. Harder more aggressive counter measures by NATO eqrlier on would have made the russians doubt themselves more and they wouldnt have made a play like they did in the crimea but because the west is so obsessed with economic sanctions like the russians actully give **** they felt they could do what they want and to be honest they could.

 

[j'nuh]

The Crimea was Russia securing a warm water port, the ethnic make up was made up to cloud things but it was Russia looking after its interests pure and simple. The Russians used to be very wary of upsetting the Americans during the cold war because America was far more aggressive in it foreign policy but several decades of expensive wars, bad military procurement and mounting debt have weakened the USA more than many realise. Obarma also is a manufactured President who can say all the right things to the press etc but doesn't have the nouce to deal with a far more intelligent and ruthless head of state such as Putin.

The Crimea has been building up over time, the Russians have been pushing things and no one has really pushed back so they get themselves into a position where they can overrun half a sovereign state knowing nothing will really happen.

Whatever Russia's intentions, it's difficult to argue that Crimea does not have a right to self-determination.

 

[McTallshort]

Whatever Russia's intentions, it's difficult to argue that Crimea does not have a right to self-determination.

Are you serious? Thousands of Russian troops turn up. Take over part of another country and you call that self determination?! Bet you supported argentina taking the falklands

 

[ncurd]

Are you serious? Thousands of Russian troops turn up. Take over part of another country and you call that self determination?! Bet you supported argentina taking the falklands

slightly different mate Falkanders want to be part of Britain those in Crimera did want to be part of Russia. they do have the right to be part of Russia.

It would of been nice had they actually declared that want a little more vocally before Russia said 'ours now'.

Look I'm not naive I don't think that's why Russia took it but it's a bloody hard thing to argue for British exactly because of out position on the Falklands and Gibraltar for that matter.

 

[McTallshort]

slightly different mate Falkanders want to be part of Britain those in Crimera did want to be part of Russia. they do have the right to be part of Russia.

It would of been nice had they actually declared that want a little more vocally before Russia said 'ours now'.

Look I'm not naive I don't think that's why Russia took it but it's a bloody hard thing to argue for British exactly because of out position on the Falklands and Gibraltar for that matter.

How is it hard to argue? Russia invade the crimea and Putin calls it self determination and everyone believes him. Didnt Hitler use a similar argument to take half of Czechoslovakia? And whats wrong with our position on the Falklands and Gib?

 

[ncurd]

How is it hard to argue? Russia invade the crimea and Putin calls it self determination and everyone believes him. Didnt Hitler use a similar argument to take half of Czechoslovakia? And whats wrong with our position on the Falklands and Gib?

Look if you held an open and free referendum in Crimera they'll say they want be Russian we argue the same for Gib and Faulklands we can't have it both ways.

There's nothing wrong with our position but we couldn't give two hoots if it wasn't for Gibraltar's strategic position and the Falklands potentially having oil.

 

[McTallshort]

If you held a free referndum before Putins invasion i doubt the result would have been that decisive.

Shows how clever Putin is

 

[j'nuh]

Are you serious? Thousands of Russian troops turn up. Take over part of another country and you call that self determination?! Bet you supported argentina taking the falklands

The referendum overwhelmingly backed being part of Russia. Normally I wouldn't trust a referendum conducted with the existential threat of soldiers lying in the background of the public psyche, but outside polls also seem to indicate that Crimea overwhelmingly support being part of Russia.

e.g.:

According to an opinion poll in February conducted by pollster GfK, 93% of the people asked said that they were happy that Crimea was under Russian control.

Such an overwhelming figure might look distinctly Soviet, or even North Korean; but the polling organisation which conducted it was Ukrainian, not Russian.

And even though plenty of people no doubt thought it would be better to give the safe answer, the general sense of peace and quiet on the streets seems to indicate that they accept what has happened.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31869747