A Political Thread

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Turnout was the lowest since 2000 around 18 million less than 2012.

Tell you what USA is already polarised this is going to send things though the roof.

Esp with 66% of white women voting trump apparently.


My biggest pet peeve is people complaining about a vote being the fault of a certain group when there own communities failed to turnout.

Why not vote?

 

[saulan]

You realise Ncurd that essentially you are saying 100m (or however many voted republican)Americans are wrong and more than that they are too stupid to understand why they are wrong.

58,228,625 voted for Hillary, 58,518,876 voted for Trump.
5,901,347 voted for smaller parties.
I think it's important to note that no matter who won this election, more than half of the population were wrong from any person's perspective.

 

[ncurd]

You realise Ncurd that essentially you are saying 100m (or however many voted republican)Americans are wrong and more than that they are too stupid to understand why they are wrong. I understand you're upset, for whatever reason, but that's pretty condescending.
I tend to steer clear of politics with people I don't know and this is the reason why.

I think I have 100million American's backing my side too. I don't know if projections have changed but Hillary was still being predicted to win the popular vote at one point...she's loosing barely at the moment.


I'll address both your and Henieiken points about saying everyone is wrong, no they're not, I belive 100% in consensus politics but we don't have that we have extremist politics currently, your either full in or fully out (try suggesting to most Brexiters that soft Brexit is probably the consensus opinion of the nation), your either left or your right . I can understand voting Republican, I understand voting Brexit (I disagree and think they are the wrong choice). Voting Trump nope as a good friend put it earlier there a point when your choosing between Hitler (sorry Godwin's Law using it for juxtaposition) and Thatcher (a devisive but not universally bad figure) and accept voting Thacher is just better. And that to me is what this election came to.

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My biggest pet peeve is people complaining about a vote being the fault of a certain group when there own communities failed to turnout.

Why not vote?

What about when your in a social community like mine that has massive voter turnout and it other groups thinking that? You can only encourage those you know.

 

[saulan]

Turnout was the lowest since 2000 around 18 million less than 2012.

I didn't realise how bad it was until I looked up the US voting age population. 235 million and maybe half of that turned up to vote. That's shocking.

 

[ncurd]

Look at it this way I'm looking at certain demographics from my political viewpoint and thinking "they are not voting my way" which I consider 'wrong', how do I understand why are they are doing that so they my way which I consider "right".

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Turnout was the lowest since 2000 around 18 million less than 2012.

Well that's interesting the BBC were saying last night they perceived it to be high turnout (which is supposed to help Hillary, probably to do with base enthusiasm the die hard Trump's were always going to turn up) yet another thing that was gotten wrong last night.

 

[Aristodemus]

I'm not on either side, I'm just saying that anything I believe or you believe is not right. It's our opinion and that's it, insulting people who don't share your own view isn't necessary.

 

[ncurd]

This is interesting Trump isn't even winning 50% of the vote in a few of these states. He looses 59 electoral votes (on called states) on that alone that's the election .

A quick look tells me that Obama managed that in every state he won last time. In 2008 he would of lost 26 electoral votes but it was a landslide he'd have won anyway.
Bush 2004 would of won if states he didn't carry over 50% of the vote on.

Bush 2000 was the last time a candidate failed to get 50% of the vote in states that gave him the electoral colleage math.

And guys that's FPTP being utter horlicks again, you don't get the candidate most people would of voted for in a two-way race, you get the candidate that isn't nessarially the most agreed upon but carried the largest minority of views.

 

[Deleted member 53362]

Ask yourself if this sound familiar from individual commenters on say the BBC that get massively upvoted (and downvoted).

"This an up yours to the 'elites'"

"The people are railing against the establishment."

That's the very definition of a protest vote.

I think your mixing the two issues as the same thing. But massively in the demographics lesser educated people are resorting to this kind of language and that's obvious if you keep you ear to the ground.
Less about the Tory's winning last election but why are people voting UKIP or Green? In their droves parties unlikely to even get a seat. The SNP a traditional labour heart ground is now almost entirely SNP.
People are railing against the establishment, and a lot of language to why people voting for Trump was the same (if you read around, thank God our friend Austintir isn't around). Why are they running from the establishment?

Let not forget Clinton (the establishment candidate) without the help of super-delegates barely won the Democratic nomination.
Corbyn (again anti-establishment even when his party was in government) has massive support in the UK.

And those are the university educated running in those directions.


It's a mixing up of the protest vote and education levels.

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It doesn't matter really. Little stressed out over other things right now (outside of global changing event) probably biting a bit more than I should at ever little bit.

Then perhaps the establishment is wrong and in need of change not that people are wrong and need convincing.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I am not confident of HILARY winning until she seals 270. Not after Brexit. Too many Swing states are within the margin for error.

trump lawsuit thrown out... this is over as soon as new hampshire comes back

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i am going to dismiss your logic and continue to believe that this is in the bag

So, your belief in Hilary winning was completely misplaced and you are in the US? How is it the feeling there at ground level?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Lol 11,000 people voted for Harambe.

Some people need to grow up.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

So, your belief in Hilary winning was completely misplaced and you are in the US? How is it the feeling there at ground level?

I want morphine

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I don't get why Clinton had a big gig with random celebrities, instead of doing direct work in a key state of something.

I mean it's 2016 people don't care about celebrities thoughts, a black person isn't more likely to vote for you becuase Jay-Z was on stage with you...

Oh god you dearly overestimate americans, the electorate has morons on both sides of the spectrum.

 

[Groundhog]

To be fair it sounds like the Clinton campaign had more people in the field and knocked on more doors, but she's highly resented. People would rather a probably chaotic unknown than an entity they know, but hate is the impression I've got from this.
Irish people ranting about the result of an election thousands of kilometers away that will have a minimal effect on us is cringe worthy. The world will continue to spin, Trump will do his term to little effect, probably claim the republican victories achieved by others, and go gently into the night.
Boys if you'd put a fiver bet on Leicester winning the PL, Brexit and Trump together you'd be 15 million euro richer today. Someone tell Marty McFly.

 

[ncurd]

Boys if you'd put a fiver bet on Leicester winning the PL, Brexit and Trump together you'd be 15 million euro richer today. Someone tell Marty McFly.

Marty would of blown it all on betting the Cubs would win last year not this year.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Boys if you'd put a fiver bet on Leicester winning the PL, Brexit and Trump together you'd be 15 million euro richer today. Someone tell Marty McFly.

Marty made way more than that by placing a bet against the ABs last weekend.

 

[ncurd]

Then perhaps the establishment is wrong and in need of change not that people are wrong and need convincing.

You won't get me disagreeing that the establishment have issues and drastically need to change, I would never call a Lib Dem an 'establishment'. I'd probably tactically vote for other parties due to FPTP if every constituency I've ever lived in the Lib Dems weren't the first or second party. In fact the entire reason we got into trouble was for propping up a Conservative government.

This is what worries me the anti-establishment cause was easily seeable and the amount of people who wanted Bernie and switched to Trump shows it has very little to do with political beliefs (Clinton is a lot of things but politically further away from Sander's than Trump is not one). So this is list of questions (please note this is from PoV of not understanding how anyone vote Trump).

1) What made Clinton so toxic that people voted Trump over her?

2) In some area's 3rd party candidate votes are massively up it's at 5%, that's 250% more than last time. How many were Obama last time and how many Romney? I suspect many more neither voters were Obama last time not Romney. I suspect there was far more of that than people switching from Obama to Trump.

3) Why the complacency? I'll be honest my posting here proves it and many people thought it. The common thinking was it didn't matter who the Democrats picked, Trump was so repugnant and toxic anyone could beat him.

Once you get to the bottom of those questions you can start asking how you move from there.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Plus side Hopkins said she would move to he US if Trump won.

 

[ncurd]

Plus side Hopkins said she would move to he US if Trump won.

Sadly she won't, they deserve each other though. Populists who will say or do anything outrageous in order to bring the spotlight on them.

That's one thing about the uncertainty of the Trump we don't know how much of rhetoric he actually believes.....not sure if that's a good thing or bad thing.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

What made Clinton so toxic that people voted Trump over her?

The BBC's take: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-37922959

She definitely lost this as much as he won it.

 

[ncurd]

The BBC's take: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-37922959

She definitely lost this as much as he won it.

That's pretty superficial (I'm not expecting great analysis mere hours into this thing and I know they need to write something).

We knew yesterday that Hillary was disliked for all those reasons so why has she lost badly(electoral college wise she's still in narrowest of lead popular vote wise)? Most money was despite this she'd win. List all the reasons why Trump is disliked put them side by side why has one come out above the other? Most people in the UK looked at it and can't understand how anyone would vote for Trump, serious here UK perspective does anyone know anyone who would voted Trump who say voted the leave the EU? Everyone I know and some passionately belived in leaving the EU wouldn't go anywhere near Trump.
There more to it than the simple stuff.

 

[saulan]

Most people in the UK looked at it and can't understand how anyone would vote for Trump, serious here UK perspective does anyone know anyone who would voted Trump who say voted the leave the EU? Everyone I know and some passionately belived in leaving the EU wouldn't go anywhere near Trump.
There more to it than the simple stuff.

Most of the World said the same thing about Brexit and then that happened too.