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All Blacks 2019 RWC squad

donmcdazzle

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Dalton is more of a 7 though right? I like having a big bruiser in there given we already have 2 very good 7s with Todd and Cane. If we brought in Dalton, then Savea went down, would look extremely thin at 6.

Separately - this is really bad for Jacobson. He needs to take a year off or something, having this many bouts with concussion is extremely worrying at such a young age. Especially just randomly flaring up out of nowhere.
 

Larksea

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I get it he's not a giant for a 6. But he is 193cm and 110-13kg pretty much the same size as Frizell, big for a 7 maybe has a couple of KG on Cane.
gotta say its a shame Whetu Douglas and Luke Whitelock are not in this conversation more. And it mostly comes from the AB selectors not having them in the conversation.
But Whetu's stats are awesome, IMO better than Fifita and Frizells stats for this year. And Luke whitelock ticks lots of boxes for me. I think hes the most like for like comparison to Read in terms of lineout/restart work, smart ball carrying and stinging defense.
 

donmcdazzle

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Like Whitelock is a great player at NPC, very good at Super, but not enough for test rugby. He is nowhere near as dynamic as Read, although I acknowledge the comparison.

He doesn’t do enough with the ball in hand. He seems like Reuben Thorne to me. Very accurate but doesn’t make much of an impact.

I like Douglas, the one that kind of surprises me is the Taufua. He’s fallen off the radar.

I saw those stats for Papalii, he doesn’t look anywhere near 113kg, that really surprises me I thought he’d be more the same as Cane round the 103kg mark
 

Larksea

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yeah rugbypass has him at 95kg but there is no way that's true. Wiki and the blues site has him as 113kg. Given he is 6ft4in and his build, 110kg doesn't seem crazy. I would struggle to believe 115kg given he's so young.
crazy that he's still only 21(22 next month I think), got some very good young players around.
No Luke doesn't carry as well as Read but his defense and work in the Air is very good. He has a tidy pass/offload game.
Funny, Luke is a genuine #8. 6ft3 and 110kg. Dalton is bigger than Luke, and may even be slightly bigger than Read.
to me Luke has been getting better and better each year, the last couple of years have been his best and he hasn't really got many chances at test level in that time. Given he's only had 8 tests most of which off the bench or in 2nd string sides I don't really think we can honestly know his test potential. To me his ability to knock guys over with his defense very similar to Read. That is the selling factor of his game IMO, and he has transferred that to test level when he had chances.
 

Umaga's Witness

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Gutted for the future all blacks captain Luke Jacobson. I hope his career isn't compromised.

Gutted for Luke but yeah Frizell is an awesome player and he can be great if he stays switched on I think Jabby is 100% correct.

So Fifita is injured I would have taken Frizell over Fifita anyway but I would have taken Dalton Papalii over them both but Dalton is injured as well?! Not sure how bad they are but in this situation you want guys that are ready to go.

More obvious than ever now that Squire was not ready to go to Japan. Hansen has been pretty guarded about that situation but foster was more open and hinted that the decision was Squires. Seems like squire will only asnwer an SOS later in the picture if it happens.

Still gutted for Luke, at the same time I've been thinking there was a strong chance that this would happen given the issues he has had this season. His last symptoms happened from just taking hits carring a tackle bag. That is not a good sign. He needs to take the summer off and just hope he gets sorted. The guy has all the assets to have a long rugby career if he can get through this patch. Looking at Dane Coles and Charlie Ngatai as examples of players who looked like their careers were over from concussion but seemed to have recovered ok.
i thikn it was always going to be Frizell, if not Squire. they select so they have 3 options in each position, i.e. they needed someone who could cover both 6 and 8.
I get it he's not a giant for a 6. But he is 193cm and 110-13kg pretty much the same size as Frizell, big for a 7 maybe has a couple of KG on Cane.
gotta say its a shame Whetu Douglas and Luke Whitelock are not in this conversation more. And it mostly comes from the AB selectors not having them in the conversation.
But Whetu's stats are awesome, IMO better than Fifita and Frizells stats for this year. And Luke whitelock ticks lots of boxes for me. I think hes the most like for like comparison to Read in terms of lineout/restart work, smart ball carrying and stinging defense.
I think Luke whitelock had a year 2 years go where he asserted some physical dominance, but has lost that edge meaning he doesn't have the bit extra they are looking for. Still Luke would be a good option, Frizell is still a bit fresh to be relied on as a number 8.

Dalton comes across as a big, strong, boy to me. I think he covered 6 well for the Blues this year. But he's not an 8.
 

Larksea

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no not an 8
the reference to #8 was just for the sake of a size comparison. my bad
 

Kapa O Pango

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What are your thoughts on the possible backrow that could be selected against on the Boks.

6. Savea
7. Cane
8. Read

Reverse: Todd or Frizell?
 

donmcdazzle

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What are your thoughts on the possible backrow that could be selected against on the Boks.

6. Savea
7. Cane
8. Read

Reverse: Todd or Frizell?

Yep they'll probably start with that given that seems to be the #1 combo... I'd take Frizell on the bench given we essentially have two 7s starting - would be weird to have no reserve to play 6. If Read got injured we would have Todd, Cane and Savea which would be a little unbalanced in my view.
 

Umaga's Witness

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What are your thoughts on the possible backrow that could be selected against on the Boks.

6. Savea
7. Cane
8. Read

Reverse: Todd or Frizell?
I reckon they will go with Todd. It just seems to be the game plan.

Personally I’d switch read and savea. And probably go with frizell on the reserves for the conditions and opposition. It depends on who is the lock reserve. If it’s Patrick I probably would go for Todd, if it’s scott I’d go for frizell.

There’s always a chance we start Scott at 6 and bring on Ardie and frizell. Just because it’s South Africa and they are big. But probably not.


The trend around the top teams is to have looser forwards. Ireland have it with props that are like sevens, South Africa with Vermeulen, wales has two sevens and a loose 6, England have two sevens and a loose lock, australia will probably have two sevens.

Also, there is another thread to talk specifically about the Boks game.
 

Larksea

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I think the Trio may vary depending on the opposition, but it seems clear our top 3 loose forwards are Read, Cane and Savea
of those three Cane is the likely guy to be substituted, after 60min of being the main guy stopping the opposition big men and throwing himself into must rucks he's often spent at that time. Todd is a good guy to sub on at that time, he has shown he cam come on and make a crap load of tackles and get stuck into a ton of rucks in the last 20. That may change against packs where we need extra height. When Retalick is fit again we may want to Run Scott Barrett as loosie cover. He's a world class player you just need guys like him on the park even more so if tuiplotu's great form continues.
 

Kapa O Pango

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Yep they'll probably start with that given that seems to be the #1 combo... I'd take Frizell on the bench given we essentially have two 7s starting - would be weird to have no reserve to play 6. If Read got injured we would have Todd, Cane and Savea which would be a little unbalanced in my view.
I think Hansen is looking to play a fast pace game against the SA with more mobile loosies, if Todd is on the bench, but Frizell does have his versatility cover multiple positions.



Frizell can also cover lock if needs be
Scott Barrett mostly does that already and offers a bit more I guess.

I reckon they will go with Todd. It just seems to be the game plan.

Personally I’d switch read and savea. And probably go with frizell on the reserves for the conditions and opposition. It depends on who is the lock reserve. If it’s Patrick I probably would go for Todd, if it’s scott I’d go for frizell.

There’s always a chance we start Scott at 6 and bring on Ardie and frizell. Just because it’s South Africa and they are big. But probably not.


The trend around the top teams is to have looser forwards. Ireland have it with props that are like sevens, South Africa with Vermeulen, wales has two sevens and a loose 6, England have two sevens and a loose lock, australia will probably have two sevens.

Also, there is another thread to talk specifically about the Boks game.

Ardie is really interchangeable during matches you can have him on attacking scrums at 8, or switch him and Read around Read playing more like a 6 tighter around the fringes of the ruck on defense making big hits. Ardie just offers a lot more around the field in the loose. The downside is the lineout gets a bit weaker, because playing Ardie and Cane.

The main jumpers being Read, Patrick, Whitelock, Barrett when starting.
 

Kiwiwomble

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Scott Barrett mostly does that already and offers a bit more I guess.

I'm not a huge fan of Scott Barrett at 6, he looks like a lock covering 6....I guess Frizell looks like a 6 covering lock though....if they were both on your bench you'd have some good flexibility
 

Kapa O Pango

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Ardie Savea has reached peak form in that Springboks match. He was immense in attack and defence agsinst a well organised Springboks defence.
 

Umaga's Witness

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Ardie Savea has reached peak form in that Springboks match. He was immense in attack and defence agsinst a well organised Springboks defence.
I was disappointed with him actually, but hope your eyes were better than mine. Certainly the most disappointing thing for me was how he was relatively ineffective at 6 and then managed to get 4 turnovers, and should have got 7 if not for the ref, when playing openside in the second half. That’s an impressive strike rate but disappointingly we are unlikely to see him at openside in the big games.
 

Kapa O Pango

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I was disappointed with him actually, but hope your eyes were better than mine. Certainly the most disappointing thing for me was how he was relatively ineffective at 6 and then managed to get 4 turnovers, and should have got 7 if not for the ref, when playing openside in the second half. That’s an impressive strike rate but disappointingly we are unlikely to see him at openside in the big games.

I understand what you mean. Ardie has been peaking and playing really good rugby though. Hansen usually starts Cane at 7, Ardie can play almost anywhere from 6, 7 and 8, but would like to see him more in his natural position at 7.
 

Larksea

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some complicated selection forces at play IMO
Frizell is the natural 6 cover but if I had to choose between having him or Scott Barrett on the field it has to be Scott, again ask that same question comparing Tuipulotu and Frizell and its Definitely Tuipulotu, he's had an excellent run of form.
Then you have Savea in awesome form, But Sam Cane is playing great as well and IMO still the best option at 7 to defend in that critical channel the 7 covers with Savea playing wider/looser. With all these things in mind i think the selection is almost spot on.
Cane at 7, Savea at 6, Read at 8, Scott Starts at lock, Paddy from the bench earlier in the 2nd half and Frizell or Todd to come on later or cover injury. I do think Todd maybe a better option for that bench spot. They went for Frizells size against the boks but Todd is the proven test performer still better to have him there than the 5-6cm or so extra height Frizell offers.
Odd having 3 opensides in the 23 but that is the nature of the situation we are in with all 3 in great form and no genuine world class blindside with squire missing.
When Retalick is back in the mix and ok to start I'd go with Scott and Paddy on the bench. Two locks, but you select your best players and back them to do the job. Scott is more than adequate at 6.
 

Umaga's Witness

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I think they need to work out their structures better so Ardie can play a bigger role getting turnovers than he has at 6 without sacrificing the defensive strengths of cane. Maybe Ardie at 8 would be a better option, with read at 6.
 

Umaga's Witness

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For the next game? I presume they’ll still want to keep their top team relatively fresh. But that will mean some players will be backing up minutes after the Canada game.
moody
Taylor
Taavao
Tuipolotu
Barret
Frizell
Todd
Savea
Weber
Jordie
Ione
Sbw
Goodhue
Bridge
Smith

Moli
Coltman
Ofa
Whitelock
Cane
Tj
Crotty
Reece

With moody to come off after 25.
 

Larksea

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I know this is harsh and Savea is in awesome form. But the biggest break SA made in the match was just after half time when cane was off in that HIA mixup and Savea was defending in the 7 channel and missed that tackle on Vermeulen
 
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