And now it begins...

Discussion in 'General Rugby Union' started by Bullitt, Dec 14, 2006.

  1. Bullitt

    Bullitt Guest

    Scrum Law changes


    The IRB Council has approved a change to the Law that governs the scrum. This follows a review of the scrum by the IRB Rugby Committee and its Law Project Group following recommendations made by the IRB's Medical Committee. The Law change will see the implementation of a four stage "crouch, touch, pause, engage" sequence for the initial scrum engagement at all levels of the Game from 1 January, 2007.

    Rewrite law 20.1(h) as

    The referee will call "crouch" then "touch". The front rows crouch and using their outside arm each prop touches the point of the opposing prop's outside shoulder. The props then withdraw their arms. The referee will then call "pause". Following a pause the referee will then call "engage". The front rows may then engage. The "engage" call is not a command but an indication that the front rows may come together when ready.

    (This is a large wmv file, so please be patient. You can download it by right-clicking and selecting 'save target as')


    Law 20.1 (g)
    Each player's head and shoulders are no lower than the hips.
    Penalty: Free Kick - CLICK TO WATCH EXAMPLE>>

    Law 20.1 (h)
    The referee will call "crouch".
    Penalty: Free Kick - CLICK TO WATCH EXAMPLE>>

    Law 20.1 (h)
    The front rows crouch and using their outside arm each prop touches the point of the opposing prop's shoulder.
    Penalty: Free Kick - CLICK TO WATCH EXAMPLE>>

    Law 20.1 (h)
    The front rows crouch and using their outside arm each prop touches the point of the opposing prop's shoulder. The props then withdraw their arms.
    Penalty: Free Kick - CLICK TO WATCH EXAMPLE>>

    Law 20.1 (h)
    The referee will then call "pause". Following a pause the referee will then call "engage".
    Penalty: Free Kick - CLICK TO WATCH EXAMPLE>>

    Law 20.1 (j)
    A front row must not form at a distance from its opponents and rush against them. This is dangerous play.
    Penalty: Penalty Kick - CLICK TO WATCH EXAMPLE>>

    Law 20.1 (k)
    Until the ball leaves the scrum half's hands, the scrum must be stationary and the middle line must be parallel to the goal lines. A team must not shove the scrum away from the mark before the ball is thrown in.
    Penalty: Free Kick - CLICK TO WATCH EXAMPLE>>

    Law 20.3 (a-d)
    Incorrect binding by props and hookers
    Penalty: Penalty Kick - CLICK TO WATCH EXAMPLE>>

    Law 20.5 (a)
    As soon as the front rows have come together, the scrum half must throw in the ball without delay. The scrum half must throw in the ball when told to do so by the referee.
    Penalty: Free Kick - CLICK TO WATCH EXAMPLE>>

    Law 20.6 (d)
    The scrum half must throw in the ball straight along the middle line….
    Penalty: Free Kick - CLICK TO WATCH EXAMPLE>>

    Original article here


    So, how long until it's like schoolboy rugby in the scrum. Or even worse, touch rugby! :eek:
  2. Forum Ad Advertisement

  3. DC

    DC Guest

    its still not going to make a difference really.. scrums really are quite pointless in my opinion, besides a means for a 'fair' restart, and this is coming from a scrum half, all we do (us scrumhalves) is angle the feeds like you wouldnt believe so 98% of the time the team with the possesion of the ball at the scrum will win it.. it wont really matter if they have the 4 step process at not, at least this will make it a little more fair, and maybe decrease the early pushing... and im so sure the refs will really crack down on the angled feed

    who knows.
  4. O'Rothlain

    O'Rothlain Guest

    Tying together the Juiced up thread, players are way bigger, stronger and more powerful than they were 20 years ago. It was time to re-examine the scrum. Safety should be first issue. Wether or not this accomplishes it, the pause and making sure that the two front rows are of an equal, understood distance apart should cut down on neck trauma.
  5. Rothers has a point...anything that stop more Matt Hampsons has to be applauded.
  6. Prestwick

    Prestwick Guest

    You know DC, Australia were of the same opinion up until last year....until Wales surged in a 5 meter scrum and steamrollered the poor Aussies over their own line. In fact, guess what? When Wales and Australia met again in November, the Welsh almost pulled off eactly the same trick.

    Oh, yes, then there was the match before when a really impotent English side even ran rings around the Aussies and dominated the scrum, thus effectively castrating the Aussie threat.

    I think Brian Moore put it best when he said:

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("Brian Moore")</div>
    Brian Moore comes out with alot of rubbish, but he was bang on there. You won't lose games if your scrum is awful, but you will make it at least ten times harder on yourself.

    Look at Ireland, Scotland and Wales, they each have very strong packs who can scrum pretty damn well. You can angle the ball, DC, however you like, if your scrum is being turned at right angles or is being shoved back five meters within seconds, it won't matter one iota because you would have lost the ball. Australia found that out to their cost.

    At the end of the day, scrums are one of the vital parts of the game.
  7. as a forward... i dont give a shite... I will still scrum the way i used to... it is time for a revolution!!!!!! lol :p
  8. BokMagic

    BokMagic Guest

    Most scrum-related injuries doesn`t even happen at the "hit" anyway- it happens as a result of the collapse. The IRB should have rather looked at this aspect, and as I said elsewhere, also the "cleaning out" that occurs, legally, at rucks.

    By the way, I personally suspect that Syd Millar is contemplating a move to Australia- why else all these rule changes which are to the benefit of the Aussies? Consider the following:
    - As already stated here, the Aussie scrum is basically porridge- trying to bring the scrum closer to the diet rugby version would clearly favour Oz more than anyone else.

    - Proposal for allowing the collapsing of mauls for safety reasons- utter shite one this- aptly described as a death-trap in another thread. Now, we all know that Oz can`t get a rolling maul going against even the likes of Italy, as for stopping one legally, well they have a snowball`s chance in hell of that.

    - Proposal for hands in the ruck- the Aussies must be sick of the sight of one Richard McCaw- sure, us Saffas also have our annual drubbing at the hands of mr McCaw and co. over in NZ, but at least we seem to be able to neutralise him in SA. The Aussies also have to face him in the Bledisloe Cup, so if Tuquiri and Elsom can`t take the guy out with spear tackles, why not neutralise him by changing the rules?

    -Proposal to have off-side line 5m behind the scrum- in the 2004 Tri-Nations, Oz kicked the least, rucked the most, passed the most and had the most possession- and ended stone last. Same story again in 2005, and in 2006, well the stats were exactly the same, a lucky win in Sydney kept them from the wooden spoon. So now, who do you reckon will benefit most from this rule? Methinks the team that kicks the least, passes the most, rucks the most and retains possession the most.

    -Proposal to do away with the corner flags- Clyde Rathbone has an excellent strike-rate in international rugby, but he also gets bundled out quite regularly into, yup you guessed it, the corner flag!

    So there :p you have it folks, the reasons for the new rule changes, all of course with tongue firmly in cheek.
  9. The TRUTH

    The TRUTH Guest

    More like knob firmly in hand :p

    BokMagic, I honestly encourage and enjoy new supporters of the game ... but supporting the game actually means WATCHING it as well!

    Instead of falling for your rancid bait, i'll just leave you with a few of my favorite numbers...49-0 :bleh!: :bleh!: :bleh!:
  10. Prestwick

    Prestwick Guest

    Here some scores I'd like to recall too, mainly to expose the Aussie's Borat-like approach to Scrums. Unlike some people, I do not need to resort to bold, large type to drill home my points (although it does help ;) )

    24 - 22

    26 - 16

    I'll leave you all to guess who was on the better side of the scores ;)

    I might do a Borat poster photoshop jobbie with Al Baxter's ugly mug on it with the title:

  11. Ripper

    Ripper Guest

  12. LeinsterBoy

    LeinsterBoy Guest

    I like the idea of the scrum half putting the ball in exactly along the middle. Too many times does my team demolish others in scrums but they still come away with it thanks to a crooked put in.

    It won't make much of a differance though. I don't think it was worth going through the effort of changing the rules.
  13. BokMagic

    BokMagic Guest

    On the matter of favourite numbers, here`s one of mine, from 1997 actually- 64-19. Guess who was on the receiving end?
  14. The TRUTH

    The TRUTH Guest

    WOW some massive margins there...... doesn't really have the same ring to it as a 49-0 or 76-0(thanks rip, close enough) though does it?

    If we're gonna play the numbers game then look no further than this year for.....



    Lucky you guys had the dominant scrum on those days :roflrol:
  15. ak47

    ak47 Guest

    I have some input too....try these figures for value

    2 x Webb Ellis - Class dimissed

    You see we have met Mr Ellis on 2 occasions...thus voiding any one night stands.
  16. Prestwick

    Prestwick Guest

    WOW some massive margins there...... doesn't really have the same ring to it as a 49-0 or 76-0(thanks rip, close enough) though does it?

    If we're gonna play the numbers game then look no further than this year for.....



    Lucky you guys had the dominant scrum on those days :roflrol:

    Sadly though Mr Truth, we're not talking about England here, as much as it orgasmically delights you that you trounced England's B team who toured Australia in the summer (who could and should have done better IMHO).

    We're talking about Australia's fundemental weakness currently at the scrum and how its costing them games. No those arn't huge margins, but the scores don't emphasise the fact that at no point did Australia look like they were going to win those games. They were relegated to a Wales like position: always threatening, but never actually hitting the tempo needed to get those extra points and winning.

    And sadly when Australia met Ireland last month, where were one of the places where Ireland positively dominated and prevented Australia ball? The scrum of course.

    21 - 6, a match where Australia were devoid of any attacking prowess or intelligence and were out muscled at the ruck and (most importantly) at the scrum. The so called revolutionary tory-boy Collonney had no answer.

    The facts hurt eh? At least I'm brave enough to acknowledge somethings wrong with me team.

    *laughs* what exactly does that have to do with anything? What, do you think its some kind of magical get out of jail card? Maybe Eddie Jones should have said last year "oh, oh but wait guys, we won 2 world cups! Does that men I get to keep my job?!"

    Having won two world cups, the last one six years ago, dosen't explain away the fact that the Australian scrum is nothing short of dismal. Having two world cups won't explain away the fact that when Gregan, Tiquiri, et al leave, they will face a seriously difficult period of searching for new talent. And two world cups won't stop them from crashing out of the Semi finals.
  17. Mr. Laxative

    Mr. Laxative Guest

    But it did last time Prestwick, didn't it?? Remember - semi-final, no one gave us a chance in hell (or heaven for that matter) to win and we did. Clearly that was all to do with us winning 2 World Cups previously......? No? And, hell I scrum was utter shite there (i.e Ben Darwin) but we still managed to pull off a remarkable victory.

    Well, to be honest AK, we have actually met Mr Ellis on 3 occaisons. The first two turned into long term relationships (its not uncommon to get back together after breaking up ;) ), the other was more of a one-night stand and farewell at the same time.

    I'm sure that next year we'll get our third, four year relationship with him. And then we won't lose him ever again. We'll get to keep him if the IRB follow through with their promise....
  18. Prestwick

    Prestwick Guest

    Sadly though, when the final came up, when Australia came up against a defence that could dampen down their rampaging running game, no amount of phases or passing or lack of kicking could cover over the fact that they were a one trick pony.

    Teams like England (twice in 2003), New Zealand (er 2004, 5 and 6), Wales (2005,6) and Ireland (2006) made Australia look quite ordinary once they exposed their running game and adjusted accordingly.

    Look at teams like Ireland and New Zealand right now. They are very physical and can therefore dominate physically in the scrum and in the ruck and yet, when it demands it, they have the speed, agility and finesse to squeeze through gap and race away for tries.

    Can Australia claim such versatility? Nope, but then again neither can teams like England or France right now.

    And if you think you can beat New Zealand, a team that has had you bent over like a lady of the night on at least four Bledisloe cups in a row, in the world cup, then sadly I think you are going to have to join Lora on that train to la-la land :)
  19. The TRUTH

    The TRUTH Guest

    This thread is about the new IRB laws, your the only one talking about Australia's scrum ( *see Prestwick's typical sad aussie rant earlier in thread)

    How is our scrum suppose to compete with an obese country like England who has national sporting icons like this bloke....


    It's just not fair

    I mean we're talking about a Country where Matt Dunning would be seen as a physical specimen and would no doubt be the starting flyhalf for the English team..... just like Andy Goode.
  20. I heard this issue addressed thusly on the Tiger's forum :

    If you mock Goodey's backside
    a word to the wise
    if the goals are going over
    it's just the right size
  21. Prestwick

    Prestwick Guest

    I think whats really sad is how you're using Darts players of all people (and trust me, the average Aussie darts player isn't the best specimen of male either) for...for...what is your point exactly Mr Truth?! *laughs*

    And actually, if you bothered to read the thread, it was actually myself, DC, O'Rothlain, Bokmagic, allblacksfreak, actually everyone bar you is talking about the scrum. I was merely using Australia's scrum as an example as, to be quite blunt (and as you keep ignoring), it isn't really that good at all.

    All you seem to be doing is fanatically trying to defend your national team through thick and thin, no matter how bad they get. Like I said, at least I'm brave enough to recognise that something is seriously wrong with my team.

    You may call that "whinging" sir, but I call it "not being delusional."
Enjoyed this thread? Register to post your reply - click here!

Share This Page