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B

Boy

Guest
Originally posted by el_tk@Dec 1 2005, 09:18 AM
Abbott is South African and really shouldn't be playing for England, as like Mike Catt, he couldn't cope physically in South Africa.

Leinster don't need a front row because they can win a match with 10% to 15% of the posession.
First thing, Catt didn't start playing first grade rugby until he came to the UK. You can't say he couldn't cope with SA physicality when he didn't concentrate on his rugby until he left. It was 1992/3, the game was still amateur, and he was barely 20.

With all due respect, every team needs a front row. If Australia had one, they wouldn't be in the trouble they are right now. Leinster's got turned inside out by Bath in the HC at the RDS a couple of months ago. They had far more than 10-15% possession (more like 50-55%), and couldn't win at home against a, let's face it, average Premiership team.
 
S

Saint N Sinner

Guest
Totally agree.

The front row is the main issue today in sport. It need's to be perfect to stand any chance of winning.

Injury's don't help either.
 
L

loratadine

Guest
i disagree, how much celtic league games do you watch, henson is a fantastic player and is in the top 4 centres in britain. Granted he aint there quite yet, but hes still an abosolute fantastic player and in my opinion is streets ahead of anyone england have got to offer, ive seen ollie smith and dont really rate him as good as henson, is passing - like most england centres is shocking.
 
C

cavan

Guest
lol, Wilkinson-esque tendancies.
 
R

robbinho

Guest
Originally posted by cavan@Dec 2 2005, 02:45 AM
lol, Wilkinson-esque tendancies.
Except Johnny isn't an over-rated fop with a hugely exaggerated sense of his own self worth. And isn't banging a fat charver.
 
F

Flamingo

Guest
Originally posted by robbinho+Dec 2 2005, 04:01 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (robbinho @ Dec 2 2005, 04:01 AM)</div>
<!--QuoteBegin-cavan
@Dec 2 2005, 02:45 AM
lol, Wilkinson-esque tendancies. 
Except Johnny isn't an over-rated fop with a hugely exaggerated sense of his own self worth. And isn't banging a fat charver. [/b]
Nor is Gav
 
S

SaintsFan_Webby

Guest
Saints have announced their line-up for the match against Leicester:

15 BRUCE REIHANA (capt)
14 SEAN LAMONT
13 Jon Clarke
12 Rhodri Davies
11 BEN COHEN
10 CARLOS SPENCER
9 MARK ROBINSON
1 Chris Budgen
2 STEVE THOMPSON
3 Pat Barnard
4 Damien Browne
5 Matt Lord
6 Ben Lewitt
7 SAM HARDING
8 Daniel Browne

16 Dylan Hartley
17 Colin Noon
18 DAVID GERARD
19 Darren Fox
20 Johnny Howard
21 Luke Myring
22 John Rudd
 
B

Boy

Guest
Think I probably played with him half a dozen or so times at Frome RFC before he went off to Bath (then Bristol, now Saints). Used to play 10 those days, and was always trying petulent little tricks. Funny to see him use pretty much the same tricks playing in the centres for Saints at Sarriers. I didn't fall for them, of course...
 
E

el_tk

Guest
Originally posted by Boy+Nov 30 2005, 10:50 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Boy @ Nov 30 2005, 10:50 PM)</div>
<!--QuoteBegin-el_tk
@Dec 1 2005, 09:18 AM
Abbott is South African and really shouldn't be playing for England, as like Mike Catt, he couldn't cope physically in South Africa.

Leinster don't need a front row because they can win a match with 10% to 15% of the posession.


With all due respect, every team needs a front row. If Australia had one, they wouldn't be in the trouble they are right now. Leinster's got turned inside out by Bath in the HC at the RDS a couple of months ago. They had far more than 10-15% possession (more like 50-55%), and couldn't win at home against a, let's face it, average Premiership team. [/b]
They lost by 3 points because Contepomi played out-half for 20 minutes and scored a full house. Then he invented this new position between 2nd centre and wing and f***ed off and played the rest of the match there.

If the ref had penalised blatant deliberate knock-ons and played advantage consistently your 14 man pack with Olly Barkley would have lost.
 
E

el_tk

Guest
Originally posted by harrison2468@Nov 30 2005, 10:38 PM
There is the ignorance - none of them played when we were relegated. Sheridan, Contepomi, Pichot, Lipman, Best... were playing for us when we got relegated.

As for Abbott, everyone poaches - http://www.therugbyforum.com/index.php?showtopic=4083.

Noon is actually a great centre, he just isn't getting the service from an inside side. Tindall isn't a great passer. On the Churchill cup a few years ago, he was one of the best performers, and had a great game versus the NZ Maori in that tournament.

Smith is better than Henson. Simple as.

All 3 aren't 'much better' than Henson, just better, and it is simple really; Wales have Ruddock, England have Robinson. Swap them around, and the 6N would had looked very different last year. It is not my fault that AR picks Tindall over Smith.

You are a fool if you think that international caps equals a good player, which is obviously the case as you beliive Henson is. He was the worst nack for Wales last year, just made to look better by media hype.
So this fantastic bunch of threequarters were only signed when all your good players left?

The Churchill cup is an absolute joke. Wow, out of England A, The US, Canada, and the NZ Maori, England A had the best centre. There's an achievement, what with there being no pro-league in the US and none tha I'm aware of in Canada.

Smith and Henson are different kinds of players. Smith is a traditional centre while Henson is used more in the 2nd playmaker role akin to Mauger and Giteau.

I didn't say an international cap equals a good player but I think we'd all agree that international players aren't picked out of a hat, or in some kind of lottery but because the international coaching team percieves them to offer more in certain areas than others.

Henson was not Wales' worst player last year. As I said before, you're just jealous because he doesn't play for Bristol/England.
 
B

Boy

Guest
Originally posted by el_tk+Dec 3 2005, 03:04 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (el_tk @ Dec 3 2005, 03:04 AM)</div>
Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2005, 10:50 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-el_tk
@Dec 1 2005, 09:18 AM
Abbott is South African and really shouldn't be playing for England, as like Mike Catt, he couldn't cope physically in South Africa.

Leinster don't need a front row because they can win a match with 10% to 15% of the posession.



With all due respect, every team needs a front row. If Australia had one, they wouldn't be in the trouble they are right now. Leinster's got turned inside out by Bath in the HC at the RDS a couple of months ago. They had far more than 10-15% possession (more like 50-55%), and couldn't win at home against a, let's face it, average Premiership team.
They lost by 3 points because Contepomi played out-half for 20 minutes and scored a full house. Then he invented this new position between 2nd centre and wing and f***ed off and played the rest of the match there.

If the ref had penalised blatant deliberate knock-ons and played advantage consistently your 14 man pack with Olly Barkley would have lost. [/b]
You said Leinster could win with 10-15% possession. If your players aren't disciplined enough even to play in their right position, your statement is clearly false.

If the ref had properly penalised the scrum, your prop Byrne would have been whistled all day. He wouldn't have been able to hear it, of course, what with his head being shoved up his arse by David Barnes and Matt Stevens.
 
E

el_tk

Guest
Originally posted by Boy@Dec 2 2005, 06:04 PM
You said Leinster could win with 10-15% possession. If your players aren't disciplined enough even to play in their right position, your statement is clearly false.

If the ref had properly penalised the scrum, your prop Byrne would have been whistled all day. He wouldn't have been able to hear it, of course, what with his head being shoved up his arse by David Barnes and Matt Stevens.
Leinster can generally win with 10-15% of posession because their back play compensates for the forward failings, due to the fact that they usually have an outhalf in the traditional position.

If the ref had played advantage properly and brought back Shane Horgan's kick-through Leinster would have gained at least another 3 points in the 1st half, if he had penalised the 3 blatant deliberate knock-ons Leinster would have got another 6-9 points in the 2nd half.

This is all more or less irrelevant anyway as my original point was about jealousy of Henson and Catt was merely a convienent example for something 2 pages back.

I'd say deep down you're still hurting from last season when Leinster beat you once and then got away with daylight robbery in a match where their line-out (and probably scrum) got murdered. What happened then? BOD popped up and scored one try and played a large part in another for O'Kelly.
 
B

Boy

Guest
Your point was that Leinster didn't need a front row. I don't believe that to be true. Leinster's backs are, on their day, extremely impressive, but until they build up the front five, they aren't going to make any impression on the Heineken Cup. Likewise, the same goes for Bath's backline.

You mentioned Catt, and as I know about him, I clarified the reference you made.

I'd like to think that my life is full enough not to still be hurting about two games of rugby last season, neither of which Bath deserved to win.
 
H

harrison2468

Guest
Originally posted by el_tk+Dec 2 2005, 03:11 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (el_tk @ Dec 2 2005, 03:11 PM)</div>
<!--QuoteBegin-harrison2468
@Nov 30 2005, 10:38 PM
There is the ignorance - none of them played when we were relegated.  Sheridan, Contepomi, Pichot, Lipman, Best... were playing for us when we got relegated.

As for Abbott, everyone poaches - http://www.therugbyforum.com/index.php?showtopic=4083.

Noon is actually a great centre, he just isn't getting the service from an inside side.  Tindall isn't a great passer.  On the Churchill cup a few years ago, he was one of the best performers, and had a great game versus the NZ Maori in that tournament.

Smith is better than Henson.  Simple as.

All 3 aren't 'much better' than Henson, just better, and it is simple really; Wales have Ruddock, England have Robinson.  Swap them around, and the 6N would had looked very different last year.  It is not my fault that AR picks Tindall over Smith.

You are a fool if you think that international caps equals a good player, which is obviously the case as you beliive Henson is.  He was the worst nack for Wales last year, just made to look better by media hype.
So this fantastic bunch of threequarters were only signed when all your good players left?

The Churchill cup is an absolute joke. Wow, out of England A, The US, Canada, and the NZ Maori, England A had the best centre. There's an achievement, what with there being no pro-league in the US and none tha I'm aware of in Canada.

Smith and Henson are different kinds of players. Smith is a traditional centre while Henson is used more in the 2nd playmaker role akin to Mauger and Giteau.

I didn't say an international cap equals a good player but I think we'd all agree that international players aren't picked out of a hat, or in some kind of lottery but because the international coaching team percieves them to offer more in certain areas than others.

Henson was not Wales' worst player last year. As I said before, you're just jealous because he doesn't play for Bristol/England. [/b]
You still don't what your talking about when it comes to the players though, making you ignorant. They are doing a very good job, but you wouldn't know about that, being ignorant and all.


Henson is a centre. Smith is a centre. Smith is better, simple as.

Regardless of quality, which he really doesn't have much of, I would never want such an unproffessional player in a team I support. Slagging off your own players is just out of order. He isn't as good as you think him, it's just that you are engulfed by the media for him too much. You can only make up your mind through reading articles, rather than watching the player himself.


Jealous of Henson?
What, because I slag him off for being a knob, a crap one at that. Get over it, you just love his legs in reality.
 
B

Bullitt

Guest
^^^

Not to be too akward, but Henson is an inside centre while Smith is an outside centre.

However, Ollie Barkley > Henson. And that's a hell of a comment!!!!
 

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