Are most female rugby players steroids clean?

[Leonormous Boozer]

I think doping is pretty **** to be honest, while it's against the rules there's players out there doping stopping players who don't with more potential getting contracts.

The rules are in place so that there's a level playing field. The substances might be arbitrarily banned but while they are strict sanctions should be handed out for their use. I definitely don't think rugby is at all clean, there's plenty of guys out there that have more impressive bodies than Grobler, you have to presume we don't exclusively have genetic lottery winners in our sport!

 

[The5thOfficial]

I think doping is pretty **** to be honest, while it's against the rules there's players out there doping stopping players who don't with more potential getting contracts.

The rules are in place so that there's a level playing field. The substances might be arbitrarily banned but while they are strict sanctions should be handed out for their use. I definitely don't think rugby is at all clean, there's plenty of guys out there that have more impressive bodies than Grobler, you have to presume we don't exclusively have genetic lottery winners in our sport!

I guess the basic premise is that if the substance enhances performance then its cheating, plain and simple. But having said that, the difference between a 100th of a second in a 100 meter race, 24 second win in the Tour De France gained by doping - and then what are the gains in rugby - faster harder tackles, faster runs down the wing but they are never measured in 100ths are they? I suppose it becomes incomparable and yet its still cheating.

 

[RedruthRFC]

I remember some guy ranked like 200th in the world beating the Williams' Sisters back to back, as well.

I love this story. Apparently the games took place after he's enjoyed a few beers with lunch and the Williams sisters objected to him smoking during the change of ends! IIRC he was defending a load of ranking points at the next grand slam and when he failed to match his previous performance dropped to something like 350th in the world.

 

[die_mole]

I love this story. Apparently the games took place after he's enjoyed a few beers with lunch and the Williams sisters objected to him smoking during the change of ends! IIRC he was defending a load of ranking points at the next grand slam and when he failed to match his previous performance dropped to something like 350th in the world.

Also played a round of golf before the match.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Also played a round of golf before the match.

"Round of golf and two shandies"

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'm fairly ambivalent about PED use generally.

Same,
I like a level playing field but when the testing is as crap as it is in rugby that's what you get.
It's the equivalent of PRIDE FC's drugs testing which was "You will **** in a cup on this date.", if you got caught you're really too dumb to be using them in the first place.

Most PEDs in sport these days are used for recovery rather than muscle building, which is why I'm fine with it in a lot of cases (don't like it in combat sports). Like in rugby I have no qualms about players taking a little something extra to recover after playing 80mins of a high intensity collision sport + gym work during the week, every week for 9months of the year. They'd implode if they didn't. If you had players walking around looking like Dorian Yates then maybe it'd be worse.

 

[RedruthRFC]

"Round of golf and two shandies"

I read that on Wikipedia after I made the post. I'm sure the account of this that I read many moons ago didn't mention shandy.....I wouldn't forget anything that heinous!

 

[ratsapprentice]

I'm sure in 10 years time it'll be "An ultra-marathon and two cc's of heroin".

 

[Mr Ruggleby]

Most PEDs in sport these days are used for recovery rather than muscle building, which is why I'm fine with it in a lot of cases (don't like it in combat sports). Like in rugby I have no qualms about players taking a little something extra to recover after playing 80mins of a high intensity collision sport + gym work during the week, every week for 9months of the year. They'd implode if they didn't. If you had players walking around looking like Dorian Yates then maybe it'd be worse.

Not strictly true, a lot of rugby players display clear signs of Human Growth Hormone which will have as significant an impact in raising testosterone levels, building muscle mass and strength (improving performance) as it will with aiding recovery. Based on a combination of first hand and second hand accounts, I believe the doping problem in rugby union is far worse than most would assume. I know for a fact that coaches or senior players at multiple leading rugby universities/colleges have essentially sanctioned/encouraged use of PEDs. The openness of use extending to the point where one (now international) player was given a birthday cake containing PEDs as a "joke". I have also heard several stories from champ/prem level clubs where players with long-term injuries get encouraged to take "extended holidays". Once you drop below champ level, the amateur game (at least in Wales and England) is a joke with regards to the policing of PEDs. I would be amazed if there was a single team between National 3 and National 1 level that didn't have somebody doping.

I guess the basic premise is that if the substance enhances performance then its cheating, plain and simple. But having said that, the difference between a 100th of a second in a 100 meter race, 24 second win in the Tour De France gained by doping - and then what are the gains in rugby - faster harder tackles, faster runs down the wing but they are never measured in 100ths are they? I suppose it becomes incomparable and yet its still cheating.

Whilst I agree that in some sports doping is more directly attributable to improved performance i.e. shaving time off your 100m, that's not to say it doesn't have a significant impact. Firstly, having seen some players playing whilst doping and then not, I can confirm that the impact on overall performance, particularly in the contact area, is very noticeable (obviously it depends on the potency of what an individual is using to some degree). Secondly, and in my opinion more importantly, it creates a knock-on effect on the game. It encourages players who's game or position is based on physical dominance to dope to keep up/push the boundaries and simultaneously marginalises the small/skillful players who may once have flourished but now literally cannot effectively participate due to the vast gap in physical strength and durability (see George Ford - he can still participate but hopefully you get the point)...

I

 

[The5thOfficial]

Not strictly true, a lot of rugby players display clear signs of Human Growth Hormone which will have as significant an impact in raising testosterone levels, building muscle mass and strength (improving performance) as it will with aiding recovery. Based on a combination of first hand and second hand accounts, I believe the doping problem in rugby union is far worse than most would assume. I know for a fact that coaches or senior players at multiple leading rugby universities/colleges have essentially sanctioned/encouraged use of PEDs. The openness of use extending to the point where one (now international) player was given a birthday cake containing PEDs as a "joke". I have also heard several stories from champ/prem level clubs where players with long-term injuries get encouraged to take "extended holidays". Once you drop below champ level, the amateur game (at least in Wales and England) is a joke with regards to the policing of PEDs. I would be amazed if there was a single team between National 3 and National 1 level that didn't have somebody doping.



Whilst I agree that in some sports doping is more directly attributable to improved performance i.e. shaving time off your 100m, that's not to say it doesn't have a significant impact. Firstly, having seen some players playing whilst doping and then not, I can confirm that the impact on overall performance, particularly in the contact area, is very noticeable (obviously it depends on the potency of what an individual is using to some degree). Secondly, and in my opinion more importantly, it creates a knock-on effect on the game. It encourages players who's game or position is based on physical dominance to dope to keep up/push the boundaries and simultaneously marginalises the small/skillful players who may once have flourished but now literally cannot effectively participate due to the vast gap in physical strength and durability (see George Ford - he can still participate but hopefully you get the point)...

I

Yeah good convo this 'cause tbh doping in rugby never crossed my mind other than to think if it was a problem then it would be in the news. In athletics and cycling even the word 'doping' is toxic. Mention it in rugby though and its almost 'jovial', the way it is discussed. Weird.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I think part of it is that testing in rugby is so poor.
It's very rare you hear of anyone popping for PEDs in top level rugby, so people just assume it's a clean sport.

 

[The5thOfficial]

I think part of it is that testing in rugby is so poor.
It's very rare you hear of anyone popping for PEDs in top level rugby, so people just assume it's a clean sport.

You're probably absolutely right. Makes you think though!

 

[smartcooky]

I think part of it is that testing in rugby is so poor.
It's very rare you hear of anyone popping for PEDs in top level rugby, so people just assume it's a clean sport.

That might be so in your part of the world but it ain't so here. Beginning in January last year, New Zealand Rugby started having everyone (players, coaches and administrators) involved in the national game open for random testing for illicit drugs. This testing was performed by Drug Free Sport New Zealand.

Up until January, it has been focused on PEDs but from January onwards, DFSNZ started carrying out random out-of-competition testing for illicit drugs as well. All Mitre 10 Cup unions, the men's and women's sevens teams and All Blacks have had players randomly tested in the last 18 months. They caught four players almost straight away

The New Zealand Rugby Judicial Committee has ordered the suspension of the following players

Zoey Berry (who won one cap for the Black Ferns in 2012) for four years from July 31 2017
Rhys Pedersen (who played for Manawatu against the Hurricanes in 2014) for 21 months from January 1 2017,
Gary Robertson (a former Waikato Player) for four years from February 3 2017 and
Ben Qauqau-Dodds for two years commencing on July 31 2017

The main concern here however, is with schools. There is considerable debate over the ethics of testing school age kids for PEDs

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11895531

 

[The5thOfficial]

That might be so in your part of the world but it ain't so here. Beginning in January last year, New Zealand Rugby started having everyone (players, coaches and administrators) involved in the national game open for random testing for illicit drugs. This testing was performed by Drug Free Sport New Zealand.

Up until January, it has been focused on PEDs but from January onwards, DFSNZ started carrying out random out-of-competition testing for illicit drugs as well. All Mitre 10 Cup unions, the men's and women's sevens teams and All Blacks have had players randomly tested in the last 18 months. They caught four players almost straight away

The New Zealand Rugby Judicial Committee has ordered the suspension of the following players

Zoey Berry (who won one cap for the Black Ferns in 2012) for four years from July 31 2017
Rhys Pedersen (who played for Manawatu against the Hurricanes in 2014) for 21 months from January 1 2017,
Gary Robertson (a former Waikato Player) for four years from February 3 2017 and
Ben Qauqau-Dodds for two years commencing on July 31 2017

The main concern here however, is with schools. There is considerable debate over the ethics of testing school age kids for PEDs

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11895531

See this is just about what I would expect in the UK if there was a problem - which with everything that has been said in this thread, there seems to be.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

That might be so in your part of the world but it ain't so here. Beginning in January last year, New Zealand Rugby started having everyone (players, coaches and administrators) involved in the national game open for random testing for illicit drugs. This testing was performed by Drug Free Sport New Zealand.

Up until January, it has been focused on PEDs but from January onwards, DFSNZ started carrying out random out-of-competition testing for illicit drugs as well. All Mitre 10 Cup unions, the men's and women's sevens teams and All Blacks have had players randomly tested in the last 18 months. They caught four players almost straight away

The New Zealand Rugby Judicial Committee has ordered the suspension of the following players

Zoey Berry (who won one cap for the Black Ferns in 2012) for four years from July 31 2017
Rhys Pedersen (who played for Manawatu against the Hurricanes in 2014) for 21 months from January 1 2017,
Gary Robertson (a former Waikato Player) for four years from February 3 2017 and
Ben Qauqau-Dodds for two years commencing on July 31 2017

The main concern here however, is with schools. There is considerable debate over the ethics of testing school age kids for PEDs

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11895531

How random are the tests really though? It's very convenient that they could ban four relative nobodies early on to show they're combatting it, how many have been caught since? It could easily be a case where a few brown envelopes are left in the right places and calls along the lines of "hey Beauden, you're getting a random test in three weeks, ease off the good stuff" are put in.

Every union has an "independent" body do their testing, here Sport Ireland do it. It all seems unconvincing at best.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Unless it's a completely independent body (i.e. USADA with the ufc, And even they can be tricked/given the run around to avoid random testing) I'm sceptical.
The NFL has drug testing, but is pretty blatantly juicy as ****

 

[ratsapprentice]

The "problem" with testing, as Olyy points out, is that unless you have a fully independent group administering the testing, you've got turkeys maintaining the ovens.

As you've seen with the UFC too, people prefer the product with all of the drugs. I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if the UFC does not renew it's contract with USADA when it expires.
They'll probably bring it in house as part of their performance centre.

It's similar to the way that all American politicians are Christian, sure... some of them are, but they have to feign it because that's the party line.

 

[RedruthRFC]

That might be so in your part of the world but it ain't so here. Beginning in January last year, New Zealand Rugby started having everyone (players, coaches and administrators) involved in the national game open for random testing for illicit drugs. This testing was performed by Drug Free Sport New Zealand.

Up until January, it has been focused on PEDs but from January onwards, DFSNZ started carrying out random out-of-competition testing for illicit drugs as well. All Mitre 10 Cup unions, the men's and women's sevens teams and All Blacks have had players randomly tested in the last 18 months. They caught four players almost straight away

The New Zealand Rugby Judicial Committee has ordered the suspension of the following players

Zoey Berry (who won one cap for the Black Ferns in 2012) for four years from July 31 2017
Rhys Pedersen (who played for Manawatu against the Hurricanes in 2014) for 21 months from January 1 2017,
Gary Robertson (a former Waikato Player) for four years from February 3 2017 and
Ben Qauqau-Dodds for two years commencing on July 31 2017

Without stats on how frequent tests are per capita, it's impossible to say if this is any more or less stringent than what happens in any other part of the world. In one regard, it has only just caught up with the RFU - a player at my local club (then at level 3) received a 2 year ban for testing positive for speed back in the 09/10 season. If the four players listed are the first to receive bans, New Zealand are light years behind the game, I recall Plymouth Albion's Russell Thompson receiving a ban back in 2002, IIRC for the same thing than Mark McGuire eventually got caught out taking.

The main concern here however, is with schools. There is considerable debate over the ethics of testing school age kids for PEDs

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11895531

I remember reading an article a few years ago suggesting that 10% of Craven Week players would fail a drug test. I have no idea what (if any) evidence there was to support this.

 

[The5thOfficial]

The "problem" with testing, as Olyy points out, is that unless you have a fully independent group administering the testing, you've got turkeys maintaining the ovens.

As you've seen with the UFC too, people prefer the product with all of the drugs. I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if the UFC does not renew it's contract with USADA when it expires.
They'll probably bring it in house as part of their performance centre.

It's similar to the way that all American politicians are Christian, sure... some of them are, but they have to feign it because that's the party line.

Yeah there's no real point in testing if it isn't independent.

 

[die_mole]

one of the first things told to me when I got to SA is that competition for contracts is so high that high school kids get driven to doping. I think 10% of craven kids doping (at the u19 level) would be low.

And as others said the nfl and mlb suspend relative nobodies all the time, but never catch a superstar. The nzru catching four nobodies at first and no one since doesn't make me believe that rugby there is clean.