Are the 2013 All-Blacks the best team of all time. Question mark.

[Jack Reacher]

I think that team started against Aus in Wellington 96, the 'perfect' test. Due to Lomu's injuries, and subsequent retirements I think this team only started one or two other tests

 

[ianw16]

NZ is too over powered, 1/2 of their players are/have Samoan Heritige. SBW IS The BIG ONE

ONE DAY NZ WILL FALL TO THE JAWS OF DEFEAT

Yep, possibly to an Aussie team containing the likes of Folau, Kuridrani, Tomane, Fainga'a (x2), Genia, Feauai-Sautia, Kepu, Leali'ifano, Polota-Nau, Sio and Toomua. Not that you chaps can ever be accused of being overpowered!
It's simply demographics. Generations of Pacific Islanders have seen NZ as being the place to emigrate to. Now Australia are getting their share; often (a generation or two down the line) via NZ.

 

[Folau Tank]

That's just a team which could have been selected from 1996-1997. Richie McCaw misses out by virtue of only being 15/16 years old. My possible AB's XV looks very different.



Umm, are you having a conversation with yourself? You're not really responding to anything particular. I read your posts and sometimes feel the capital letters give the impression you are excitedly shouting. It means when I read some of these I feel you are excitedly yelling the 'SBW IS HALF SAMOAN' while facing a mirror. It makes me chuckle, it's enjoyable but maybe for the wrong reasons.

...........
SORRY for not be perfect gosh

 

[FlukeArtist]

Also SBW is coming back to the ABs as he said in the Sydney Morning Hearld ( SBW IS HALF SAMOAN) and they are getting Benji marshall who would might be a treat if he plays with his mind, he can be a treat but they do have talent young players - http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...retty-boys-doing-our-hair-20131025-2w6lg.html

AND you forgot some legends that were Islanders

Jonah Lomu
Jerry Collins
Victor Vito
Tana Umaga

and more

Really??!!! The Pacific Islander BS again??
Change the record pal. This tune has been played far too many times, and has been proven to be nonsensical BS.

You may as well say that NZ are "over-powered" due to their players of European heritage (Carter, McCaw, Read, Woodcock, Smiths etc).
The players of European heritage are immigrants to this country too.

BTW: those names you mentioned above? All born in NZ except Collins who immigrated at primary school age. They are just as kiwi as McCaw or Carter.

I also don't think this team comes close to the legendary teams of the past. Not just All Black teams... This team still has a lot of flaws and a long way to go to be accredited with such presitgious accolades.

They would come close if they kept this type of momentum next year. But I highly doubt that they will win all their games next year. If anything was to go by, this year's games showed that the other teams are evolving, and adapting to new play styles and they are becoming ever closer to beating the All Blacks. Whereas the All Blacks after the successful Graham Henry era, are just tweaking little things to better their already successful gameplan. I have a feeling that the All Blacks will lose at least 2 games next year. 1 vs. the Bokke, and 1 vs a NH team..

Which legendary teams does this current team not measure up to?
I'm curious, because losing one game over 2 years must surely place them somewhere in the top echelon?

(And lets not forget that the year before last they won the World Cup too, and have pretty much dominated since '10)

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

i think conrad smith needs a mention ?

 

[Zed]

Yep, possibly to an Aussie team containing the likes of Folau, Kuridrani, Tomane, Fainga'a (x2), Genia, Feauai-Sautia, Kepu, Leali'ifano, Polota-Nau, Sio and Toomua. Not that you chaps can ever be accused of being overpowered!
It's simply demographics. Generations of Pacific Islanders have seen NZ as being the place to emigrate to. Now Australia are getting their share; often (a generation or two down the line) via NZ.

Yup.

A lot of Samoans/Tongans & Fijians who have represented NZ were either born in NZ or came there as kids, not a case of NZ poaching Pacific Islanders.

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

Yup.

A lot of Samoans/Tongans & Fijians who have represented NZ were either born in NZ or came there as kids, not a case of NZ poaching Pacific Islanders.

dont thint that new zealand needs to poach paficic islanders

 

[FlukeArtist]

I hear this morning the All Blacks were named team of the year again. This is the fourth year in a row.
Surely this must go some way to placing them among the elite teams of all time?

 

[The Jones Boy]

Really, after a miracle escape against Ireland?
Aussie took Ireland apart, and made Ireland look like a bunch of amateurs.
Ireland then played us and spent large parts of the game making us look ordinary at best.
This is a very fine team but until it has Kaino back in it and he's on form then it can't possibly be considered for best AB team of all time.
Messam is a fine player but when Kaino returns to form and full fitness Messam will be warming the bench.
Dan Coles looks like a school kid and I'm scared he will get hurt by that towering behemoth Du Plessis. The pressure is on Coles now that he can't hide for the first 60 minutes behind Andrew Hore.
To be fair, this year, only the Boks looked like a team that could give us the full measure of a test and beat us.
It's not that we were great, it's just that were great in rare moments when it really counted. Apart from the Boks every other team seemed to be below par. Hey, you can only beat what is put in front of you but this year I think we got off lightly.
Aussie were very ordinary in the RC, England were average by their standards at home, the French are still too early in their managers tenure to be a settled line up. Argentina are a strong pack but a regular back line.
It was a good year for the chance to go through unbeaten and apart from the two games against the Boks which were very tough games, and the tired looking performance (very shabby first half) against the Irish, the rest of the games did not see a severely tested AB team.
1987 team rates above this one.

 

[FlukeArtist]

Really, after a miracle escape against Ireland?
Aussie took Ireland apart, and made Ireland look like a bunch of amateurs.
Ireland then played us and spent large parts of the game making us look ordinary at best.
This is a very fine team but until it has Kaino back in it and he's on form then it can't possibly be considered for best AB team of all time.
Messam is a fine player but when Kaino returns to form and full fitness Messam will be warming the bench.
Dan Coles looks like a school kid and I'm scared he will get hurt by that towering behemoth Du Plessis. The pressure is on Coles now that he can't hide for the first 60 minutes behind Andrew Hore.
To be fair, this year, only the Boks looked like a team that could give us the full measure of a test and beat us.
It's not that we were great, it's just that were great in rare moments when it really counted. Apart from the Boks every other team seemed to be below par. Hey, you can only beat what is put in front of you but this year I think we got off lightly.
Aussie were very ordinary in the RC, England were average by their standards at home, the French are still too early in their managers tenure to be a settled line up. Argentina are a strong pack but a regular back line.
It was a good year for the chance to go through unbeaten and apart from the two games against the Boks which were very tough games, and the tired looking performance (very shabby first half) against the Irish, the rest of the games did not see a severely tested AB team.
1987 team rates above this one.

I agree somewhat.
But like you say; you can only beat what is in front of you.
So are you saying every other team in the world has been average for the past 2 years?

It's kind of like a chicken - egg question.
Because firstly, I don't agree that every other international rugby team has been average. And I think even if the other teams may have been average, they do tend to raise their games against the ABs.

Great teams win those close games when most teams would not be able to close them out.

In saying that though, this ABs team does need to keep improving.
After all, every other team will too.

 

[Chikwa]

Really, after a miracle escape against Ireland?
Aussie took Ireland apart, and made Ireland look like a bunch of amateurs.
Ireland then played us and spent large parts of the game making us look ordinary at best.
This is a very fine team but until it has Kaino back in it and he's on form then it can't possibly be considered for best AB team of all time.
Messam is a fine player but when Kaino returns to form and full fitness Messam will be warming the bench.
Dan Coles looks like a school kid and I'm scared he will get hurt by that towering behemoth Du Plessis. The pressure is on Coles now that he can't hide for the first 60 minutes behind Andrew Hore.
To be fair, this year, only the Boks looked like a team that could give us the full measure of a test and beat us.
It's not that we were great, it's just that were great in rare moments when it really counted. Apart from the Boks every other team seemed to be below par. Hey, you can only beat what is put in front of you but this year I think we got off lightly.
Aussie were very ordinary in the RC, England were average by their standards at home, the French are still too early in their managers tenure to be a settled line up. Argentina are a strong pack but a regular back line.
It was a good year for the chance to go through unbeaten and apart from the two games against the Boks which were very tough games, and the tired looking performance (very shabby first half) against the Irish, the rest of the games did not see a severely tested AB team.
1987 team rates above this one.

To win 14 out of 14 and gracefully give excuses to the opposition performances does a severe injustice to a team that overcame adversity, in many forms .I read a quote this week that asked a very interesting question: Do you search for perfection or success? Steve Hansen has achieved unparalleled success without reaching perfection In a time where players are fitter,Faster and stronger.The game is subject to more analysis and scrutiny than ever I would opine that this is the best ever All black team ever without necessarily have the most talented players in their line up. And in my definition team includes the entire squad and coaching staff.(by the way I think luatua will surpass kaino next year)

 

[Larksea]

The reason the All Blacks are so good is because we combine great island/Maori heritage players with great European players seamlessly as brothers and New Zealand All Blacks.

ok thats gushing....

Should be an example to everyone for what can be achieved when races work together! Steve Hansen should get the fricken Nobel Peace Prize ! actually a lot of it has to do wit the culture that came through from Ted, he is basically an expert at coaching young people, islanders in particular from his experience as a school principal.

 

[Aspry]

Btw I am just wondering, who has Maori heritage in this All Black squad? As far as I know only Messam and Aaron Smith cause I saw them playing for the Maoris... but I am sure there are more.

 

[shiznit26]

Tawera Kerr-Barlow
TJ Perenara
Corey Jane
Aaron Cruden
Israel Dagg

 

[ianw16]

Tawera Kerr-Barlow
TJ Perenara
Corey Jane
Aaron Cruden
Israel Dagg

Dan Carter?

 

[SimonG]

The best team of the pro era is the Australia 2001 team that cleaned up the lot and in an era of quality opposition. I've been following Union for roughly 20 yrs and this NZ ain't anywhere near the level of their own past teams. The drop in standard of the game showed in the last WC when most of that team limped over the line against a very ordinary France team in their own backyard. Think of the NZ teams that didn't win the WC.

The statistic of being unbeaten (if only Sexton had made a simple kick) in a calendar year looks good on paper, but the standard of the opposition has lowered significantly. Australia have pretty much given up on Union...I was delighted as the next man that we won the Lions series but it was against dreadful opposition. The John Eales side would have battered us. SA haven't been anywhere near the force of four yrs ago with so many top players gone. So that's the two main opponents. In the NH, England haven't been good since 2003...Johnson, Dallaglio, Wilkinson, Robinson etc..the current side of no stars would have been humped into oblivion by that lot. France...again, a pale shadow of the side of old (even Michalak can still get a game). So that's the four main opponents.

That just leaves the other home nations. Scotland...well the game is near dead. The last time they were any good? Gavin Hastings era. Ireland...we hit our peak around 2009 (O'Driscoll was just about done after that), O'Connell is now a 60 minute player. The one team that are actually better now than say 10 yrs ago is Wales (scrum still weak tho).

Although the opposition haven't been great it's still an impressive feat. They are the best team of 2013 that's all that can be said.

 

[Big Ewis]

^ interesting post.
But New Zealand though have looked absolutely amazing throughout 2013. Nearly flawless on attack. And sure they played a French side in complete crisis 4 times, an Aussie team that's never been worse...but just their game itself. Wow. Did they have such excellent no.8's as Kieran Read back in the day ? I think the combination/schemes on attack have looked better than ever, from what I've seen from the AB. I've seen how they used to play during the 70's/80's, beautiful stuff. Some 90's, and a lot of 2000's AB matches. I do reckon, lest my memory fails that badly, their attack has never looked this sharp.
They've typically played matches this year where the opponent had possession and territory stats in their favor big time, and on the slightest opportunity, they'd score a try on the other end.
Their game in Paris in November was ridiculous. We smothered them as best we could the whole match, would not let them breathe, "skin-tight" defense so to speak. They get like literally 3 opportunities the whole 80, and score on a couple.
They scored a try at 14 men in Joburg like it was a walk in the park, that Read walk-in. And SA are hardly soft, even in this era.

 

[SimonG]

I would compare the current NZ team to Larry Holmes, beating everyone in a poor era.

That NZ XV at the top of this page is pretty mouthwatering, and they were handed a few beatings. Campese, Farr Jones, Lynagh, Eales and co. did a number on quite a few of them in '91. The French in '99 were just awesome. When they clicked no-one could touch them...problem is they didn't click often enough. Lomu is easily the most electrifying player i've seen; thought he was unstoppable until he ran into the SA wall in the '95 final.

Far better NZ teams didn't win the WC than the one that limped over the line vs the French. For whatever reason the standards of many of the major teams have nosedived. England was probably the most alarming..after winning the Cup in '03 they disintegrated.

 

[Big Ewis]

yeah but they're coming back and looking good again (England) and Ireland's never been as good as currently, like, the past years.
And you say the level has dropped in test Rugby, I'll tell you Lomu was absolutely awesome but players weren't nearly as huge as now...

And the defenses are excellent nowadays, and filled with bigger, more athletic, more efficient players. And yet NZ has scored the most amazingly designed tries over all top tier teams last year. NZ has, to my humble knowledge, never been this complex with its attacking schemes and never this fluid. They literally looked like they shared a common brain on some plays - I can't imagine the hours they put into making those movements possible.
Although I have seen some amazing designs from past decades from em...

 

[Toby Sweeney]

This is almost impossible to measure, you can't compare amateurs to professionals therefore it's impossible to know. I think we will know more this season coming, I don't see them losing anytime soon.