We'd have put that match to bed by 60mins with George
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Argentina vs England - 12/07/25
- Thread starter Pieter Steph du Teague
- Start date
We have a problem at Hooker.
Have we finally got a solution at 12.
The back row options are becoming a major headache in a positive way.
Roebuck v Freeman is now a battle royale...
Have we finally got a solution at 12.
The back row options are becoming a major headache in a positive way.
Roebuck v Freeman is now a battle royale...
Yeah the dodgy line out kept Argentina in it
LIONSxv
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Absolutely George hits his man on at least two of those entries. Our maul before the subs looked dominant.
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I counted a total of 7 lineouts that went awry (either overthrows or not straight) with the majority of those in or close to the 22. With George, we'd have converted at least one of those into points, very possibly a number of them.
To make matters worse, one of the few straight throws was easily picked off on their 5m line and ultimately resulted in their second try giving them a thoroughly undeserved half time lead.
To make matters worse, one of the few straight throws was easily picked off on their 5m line and ultimately resulted in their second try giving them a thoroughly undeserved half time lead.
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Always prefer a tight match with a bit of jeopardy so quite enjoyed that even if it degenerated into a bit of a kick fest. Well done England although very disappointed by Argentina over the 2 games.
Scrum was good although the Arg prop factory is MIA with the Welsh fly halves. Good display but much tougher tests await - ditto for the defence.
I can see why SB was interested in Dan but the experiment has massively failed - in addition to line out woes he spilled virtually every carry. Langdon fluffed his lines too. 3rd hooker slot still up for grabs - maybe worth having another look at Dunn who had an excellent season for Bath.
Pepper is going to be a real complication in the back row picture. Others huff and puff but he looks like a potential Rolls Royce. Willis again showed why a powerful 8 is generally a good idea.
Northmore went well and while the midfield is far from fixed Atkinson has shown he’s worth a proper look in the Autumn.
Winning habit kept and some good experience for some of the newer players. Positive tour.
Scrum was good although the Arg prop factory is MIA with the Welsh fly halves. Good display but much tougher tests await - ditto for the defence.
I can see why SB was interested in Dan but the experiment has massively failed - in addition to line out woes he spilled virtually every carry. Langdon fluffed his lines too. 3rd hooker slot still up for grabs - maybe worth having another look at Dunn who had an excellent season for Bath.
Pepper is going to be a real complication in the back row picture. Others huff and puff but he looks like a potential Rolls Royce. Willis again showed why a powerful 8 is generally a good idea.
Northmore went well and while the midfield is far from fixed Atkinson has shown he’s worth a proper look in the Autumn.
Winning habit kept and some good experience for some of the newer players. Positive tour.
Pepper
Pollock
Curry x 2
Underhill
Earl
That's a headache for the coaches ...and complicated more if SB wants a Chessum style 6.
Pollock
Curry x 2
Underhill
Earl
That's a headache for the coaches ...and complicated more if SB wants a Chessum style 6.
I was torn apart for saying Langdon's not past it at 27 - Dunn's 5yrs older!
I think it's early to be writing off Langdon, he dropped into the playing side on a handful of hours notice - it's not like he's got form for crap darts at club level, like Dan. Worth getting more caps into at this stage
If we had injuries I'm not against someone like Dunn getting a run though, 2yrs out from a world cup realistically all that matters is are they gonna make it to that, and Dunn's play style isn't really one that'll be effected by being 2yrs older
I think it's early to be writing off Langdon, he dropped into the playing side on a handful of hours notice - it's not like he's got form for crap darts at club level, like Dan. Worth getting more caps into at this stage
If we had injuries I'm not against someone like Dunn getting a run though, 2yrs out from a world cup realistically all that matters is are they gonna make it to that, and Dunn's play style isn't really one that'll be effected by being 2yrs older
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Didn’t realise Dunn was quite that vintage. But could still do a job over the next couple of years.
Absolutely not writing off Langdon, but there seems to have been something the coaches weren’t too keen on and if that’s right last night won’t have helped. But he should get other chances, Dan shouldn’t.
Langdon was incredibly frustrating at the time after what Dan had served up for 50 odd minutes, but totally agree that he'd been dropped in at the deep end and absolutely deserves more caps to prove himself.
I think Seb Atkinson is my success story. He's looked solid in every aspect of the game, completely at home. Dingwall has a fight on his hands to get the shirt back (sod off Owen!)
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My issue with Dunn being temporary is that LCD and George are also past 30. LCD is also an injury worry. Not saying they still won't be good enough in 2 years, but it's definitely rolling the dice and if something happens the drop off would be huge.
I think Borthwick was right to try and identify the next cab off the rank and Dan wasn't a bad option at the time. The mistake was giving him a central contract so early and committing to him when he was still unproven.
I think Borthwick was right to try and identify the next cab off the rank and Dan wasn't a bad option at the time. The mistake was giving him a central contract so early and committing to him when he was still unproven.
Dan was always a bad option at the time. There were plenty of first choice proven club hookers to pick and he went for second choice Dan who had poor basics.
This was never the horse to pin your hopes on.
This was never the horse to pin your hopes on.
Hear me out but maybe Pepper could play hooker?
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Yeah. It was dumb giving a central contract to a player with so many work-ons who isn’t even first choice at club level?
Dunn can probably feel hard done by not to have had more of a shot at test level. His 1min cap was arguably more of a slap in the face than a proper reward. He’s been a very consistent performer for a good 6-8yrs. At 32 though, I think that ship has sailed.
I hope Blamire goes well at Tigers. If he can improve his throwing, the rest of his game is good.
I’m confused at Blake being consistently overlooked for even the A squad. He looks like a great all rounder to me - very solid in the set piece, a big unit for the scrum and shows up well in the loose. What’s not to like?
Dunn can probably feel hard done by not to have had more of a shot at test level. His 1min cap was arguably more of a slap in the face than a proper reward. He’s been a very consistent performer for a good 6-8yrs. At 32 though, I think that ship has sailed.
I hope Blamire goes well at Tigers. If he can improve his throwing, the rest of his game is good.
I’m confused at Blake being consistently overlooked for even the A squad. He looks like a great all rounder to me - very solid in the set piece, a big unit for the scrum and shows up well in the loose. What’s not to like?
I think the other issue is that none are really the style of 6 I feel Borthwick wants
As in like a Lawes/Chessum kinda 6?
It's weird that (in my mind) that seems to be the 6 that SB would want but then he's not interested in CCS or Hill there
Maybe he is coming round to the dual openside?
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Dunn was the ultimate example of Eddie Jones fuckery and the thing that made me despise him more than anything else. It felt more than just a snub, it seemed actively cruel.
Hmmm idk he gave CCS a few starts there but he didn’t have the stamina or positioning and hill well you saw this boards feelings after the France XV game
Yeah, very true - the stats and workrate aren't matching up with the theoreticals
I mean Dunn was part at the time of a very underwhelming Bath side
You had
Singleton who was about 3 years younger and playing just as good rugby only got 4 caps
Blamire who is 5 years younger again playing just as well at the time only got 6 caps
Dolly who is 6 years younger playing out of his skin that season with 13 prem starts and 7 tries only got 2 caps
Walker 3 years younger and got 1 cap
Like Eddie Jones made a lot of errors but in all honesty for me Dunn wasn't one of them.
Hartley (At the start), LCD and George are both miles ahead of him and we had younger players playing at the time just as good rugby. Tommy Taylor was more unlucky imo
