Argentina vs England - 12/07/25

[saulan]

What I never saw coming was after this test window England being tied in the rankings with France, but if next weekend is another 14+ score win for New Zealand, then that will be the case... Would have been a clear 4th place for England if there was a larger margin for NZ in the first game:

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I mean Dunn was part at the time of a very underwhelming Bath side
You had
Singleton who was about 3 years younger and playing just as good rugby only got 4 caps
Blamire who is 5 years younger again playing just as well at the time only got 6 caps
Dolly who is 6 years younger playing out of his skin that season with 13 prem starts and 7 tries only got 2 caps
Walker 3 years younger and got 1 cap

Like Eddie Jones made a lot of errors but in all honesty for me Dunn wasn't one of them.

Hartley (At the start), LCD and George are both miles ahead of him and we had younger players playing at the time just as good rugby. Tommy Taylor was more unlucky imo

I think it’s less about where he stood in the pecking order than how he was treated when he was in camp.

In an era of automatic front row subs he was on the bench a couple of times in the 20 6N - unused v Sco and got 1 minute v Ita in a game that was long since won. I think there was other stuff too.

 

[Geordie]

I think the other issue is that none are really the style of 6 I feel Borthwick wants

What style if not Chessum as a replacement for Lawes?
He clearly isn't sold on Hill or CCS yet. Tom Curry has been the go to when everyone's fit

 

[Geordie]

Yeah. It was dumb giving a central contract to a player with so many work-ons who isn't even first choice at club level?

Dunn can probably feel hard done by not to have had more of a shot at test level. His 1min cap was arguably more of a slap in the face than a proper reward. He's been a very consistent performer for a good 6-8yrs. At 32 though, I think that ship has sailed.

I hope Blamire goes well at Tigers. If he can improve his throwing, the rest of his game is good.

I'm confused at Blake being consistently overlooked for even the A squad. He looks like a great all rounder to me - very solid in the set piece, a big unit for the scrum and shows up well in the loose. What's not to like?

Sadly that ain't going to happen. Hell of a player and a genuine warrior this season, he's put his head in places he shouldn't for the team. But that lineout has cost us tries both for and against this season....

 

[Geordie]

Jibulu off to Sale this season...he's the man to watch. Very prominent in the loose, let's hope his core skills are up to scratch.

Maybe Seb Blake?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

What style if not Chessum as a replacement for Lawes?
He clearly isn't sold on Hill or CCS yet. Tom Curry has been the go to when everyone's fit

I think my point is more just we have so many world class opensides but none in that true blindside style

Ilione could maybe do a job there I feel next season he might even play 8 a few times

 

[Geordie]

And where does Kepu Tuipolotu come in. Will he be getting more time for Bath this season?

 

[Geordie]

I think my point is more just we have so many world class opensides but none in that true blindside style

Ilione could maybe do a job there I feel next season he might even play 8 a few times

Ah theres another I completely forgot about. Looks a top player....strong and intelligent

 

[TRF_Olyy]

And where does Kepu Tuipolotu come in. Will he be getting more time for Bath this season?

Still has another season of u20 eligibility, but I imagine he'll make the A side in either the autumn or 6N

 

[Reiser99]

There are plenty for the future, we need to identify someone in roughly the 24-30 bracket who plays regularly for his club and performs well. I know it might be asking a lot, but the younger ones are for 2031, not 27.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

My issue with Dunn being temporary is that LCD and George are also past 30. LCD is also an injury worry. Not saying they still won't be good enough in 2 years, but it's definitely rolling the dice and if something happens the drop off would be huge.

You’re quite right to say in a subsequent post that we need players from the next age group down, not the kids.

But front rowers often get better with experience and go on longer than players in other positions. I’d say Dunn and LCD are playing as well as they ever have, if not the rugby of their lives. George has slipped a bit but is still more than good enough for the international game. Plus we’re starting to build a really powerful and dynamic pack, so it wouldn’t be the absolute worst thing in the world if the hooker was more rock solid than rock star.

 

[Crash Hamster]

Hear me out but maybe Pepper could play hooker?

Pepper is the new Barbeary..?

 

[Ddanno]

Pepper is the new Barbeary..?

I think Dan should be the new Barbeary and look at joining the backrow asap

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I mean Dunn was part at the time of a very underwhelming Bath side
You had
Singleton who was about 3 years younger and playing just as good rugby only got 4 caps
Blamire who is 5 years younger again playing just as well at the time only got 6 caps
Dolly who is 6 years younger playing out of his skin that season with 13 prem starts and 7 tries only got 2 caps
Walker 3 years younger and got 1 cap

Like Eddie Jones made a lot of errors but in all honesty for me Dunn wasn't one of them.

Hartley (At the start), LCD and George are both miles ahead of him and we had younger players playing at the time just as good rugby. Tommy Taylor was more unlucky imo

It was not about whether he got selected or not but how Jones kept ******* with him by waving a carrot in front of him then giving him pitiful 1 minute appearances. Rather than simply saying no, he mucked him around for years.

 

[Grizwald]

Langdon can be cut some slack. It will have been assumed George starting and Dan to back him up if needed in case of injury. I might be wrong but you're probably not getting many reps in as third choice hooker with the starting lineout.

The Prem seems to be filled with backrowers who've converted to hooker. Be interested to know what the likes of Dan Sheehan and Malcolm Marx started out as positionally as tall hookers who have a bit of everything to their game.

It's a bit like the approach to props changing for a time, going for more mobile players that could get around the pitch, tip a pass on etc. But fundamentally if you can't scrum to the top level you'll get found out eventually.

 

[Scotty]

Dan needs to become first choice at Sarries or move as its not doing his development any good being stuck behind George. How can Englands 3rd choice hooker not even be 1st choice at his club. LCD had issues with his lineouts but got alot better. If Dan becomes first chose and has a full season I do thinkbhe will get better but right now he can't be back up. George to second choice isn't a bad thing at club level as he has nothing to prove.

When are these central contracts up?

 

[Which Tyler]

And where does Kepu Tuipolotu come in. Will he be getting more time for Bath this season?

He's 19.
Absolutely no need to push him too hard.
He'll be 3rd choice at Bath next year, hopefully subject to careful and considered management of his game time.

Having said that, I think I'd call him up to cover Dan's injury in USA. But that's on the general principle that he's the only one of all the options who's actually been playing rugby the last few weeks, rather than picking someone up off the beach.
He's good enough to the bench against USA if required, and seems intelligent enough to learn a tonne from holding tackle bags for a week.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

The Prem seems to be filled with backrowers who've converted to hooker. Be interested to know what the likes of Dan Sheehan and Malcolm Marx started out as positionally as tall hookers who have a bit of everything to their game.

Flanker at youth level.

 

[Geordie]

He's 19.
Absolutely no need to push him too hard.
He'll be 3rd choice at Bath next year, hopefully subject to careful and considered management of his game time.

Well he's got a very good manager at Bath to bring him on.

 

[AlRums]

What I never saw coming was after this test window England being tied in the rankings with France, but if next weekend is another 14+ score win for New Zealand, then that will be the case... Would have been a clear 4th place for England if there was a larger margin for NZ in the first game:
View attachment 24089

These are different numbers to the ones I see