Australian Republican Movement

[Peat]

I could supply anecdotes about meeting people from Norn Iron that regard themselves as British and Irish - but that would still be anecdote, and anecdote isn't evidence.

But speaking as someone with friends in Ulster, friends in the British army and a British tax payer... I'd rather all changes to Northern Ireland's status were made very carefully. Let the people there work out their own destiny and culture. That's the only pragmatic thing.

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As for the original topic... eh. I don't have a vote, obviously, but I suspect there's bigger issues in most Australians' every day lives. Its sort of how I feel about republicanism here. The current system works and there are more pressing things for governments and debates to sort. Not worth the candle, for us at least.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_republic_referendum,_1999

It seems this question has already been put to the Australian people back in 1999 and was resoundingly rejected. Almost 55% nationally voting no to an Australian President.

 

[Da Grappla]

Last ´99 was 15 years ago. If it's right what it's said about the country, after 15 years and having started from just a 55% pro monarchy...

On the other hand, The Guardian, couldn't be otherwise, aligns itself with the republicans and could not help moaning

All but the diehards agree the republic has to be forgotten for a few years: nothing until the Queen dies




http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/22/catherine-william-remind-australia-charming-durable

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

From a very foreing point of view, and a pragmatic one, Ireland should be one like it is in rugby. And part of the UK. Never met an irishmen who thought that before in my life...and I've met a few. Actually, they take offense if called "british", even speaking of a mere geographical matter. Not an oddity, because people here reffuse to thing we are africans because our islands are off the african coast.

By the way, Spain never had "colonies", but provinces. The more european populated they were, the more prosperous they became before and after their independeces. The good ones; Chile, Argentine, Uruguay, Costa Rica, Puerto Rico and Cuba.

That's a very short direct statement to a huge problem, debate, whatever you want to call it.. you might want to have a little more context or look into it a bit more before you just say "Ireland should be one". That's certainly not the majority opinion in the north. People can identify themselves with whatever terms they like, it doesn't matter, I'm from the island of Ireland but hold a British passport so I can identify myself as either, or even 'Northern Irish'.

Just reading through this thread it's very clear sanzar has a personal vendetta against the UK/England, so arguing with reason won't work.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

That's a very short direct statement to a huge problem, debate, whatever you want to call it.. you might want to have a little more context or look into it a bit more before you just say "Ireland should be one". That's certainly not the majority opinion in the north. People can identify themselves with whatever terms they like, it doesn't matter, I'm from the island of Ireland but hold a British passport so I can identify myself as either, or even 'Northern Irish'.

Just reading through this thread it's very clear sanzar has a personal vendetta against the UK/England, so arguing with reason won't work.

I don't want to start a debate here but is it common practice for people living in the north of Ireland to consider themselves Northern Irish? All my family in the north would consider themselves Irish and hold Irish passports and that's really the only 'side' I witness. The only time I've heard someone in my family referring to themselves as Northern Irish was in a job interview and they received a reply of "that's not a nationality' and didn't get the job! Admittedly that was about 15 years ago.



@DeGrappla, if your observations were an accurate reflection Ireland would be united!


@Tallshort, no one should watch the news that day, in fact the calendar should just skip from the 11th to the 13th. That day just reflects badly on everyone.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

I don't want to start a debate here but is it common practice for people living in the north of Ireland to consider themselves Northern Irish? All my family in the north would consider themselves Irish and hold Irish passports and that's really the only 'side' I witness. The only time I've heard someone in my family referring to themselves as Northern Irish was in a job interview and they received a reply of "that's not a nationality' and didn't get the job! Admittedly that was about 15 years ago.

It's definitely not the most common anyway, way behind Irish and British, but there was a poll on this and it was around 1/6 if I remember correctly consider themselves Northern Irish - still a decent chunk of the population.

& you're right on the 12th, unfortunately the minority reflect on the majority.

 

[nickdnz]

Wow quite a heated topic. Sanzar has blown a gasket!

The whole aspect of "republic movement" is rather meaningless as Australia is to all intents and purposes a republic. Australia also has its own anthem. Is Maam on the currency? I can't see any aspect of how the monarchy affects Oz society one iota. It's just symbolic. Having that minor linkage is a nod to the country's past...if Aussies want to cut off that linkage I can't see how it would change anything. The majority of its populous is of British ancestry and perhaps when that changes then it would be more understandable. I do agree with a flag change though..."Britain at night"..haha. Regards Britain, the monarchy is a priceless asset to the economy and prestige, an absolute goldmine, so no way will it disappear anytime soon. Plus they are for the most part very likeable.

I'm Irish and i am geographically inside the UK due to an artificial state that was named "northern Ireland" (my own county Tyrone was so close to being part of the republic but those who manufactured this state needed that bit more land to make it viable). Whilst I am a nationalist and want to see my country reunited, I actually would have zero problem remaining part of the UK in a united Ireland (no chance the southerners would agree to that btw). We are drenched in British culture. I'm totally fine with it, infact I embrace it and am thankful to Britain for it. There are those who fight it (join Gaelic clubs, do Irish dancing, even learn the Irish language)..fair enough, Sanzar it would appear belongs in this camp. It ain't for me. British culture is the best on the planet and has had the biggest influence on the modern world.

Take a look at all the former colonies of Spanish, Portuguese, German, Dutch, French Empires...third world cesspits. The British Empire, the Anglosphere, leads civilisation in the modern world. Russia with its communism, Italy with its fascism, the Islamic worid with its backward religiosity. Without the influence of Britain and the Anglosphere these systems would have run amok. Every country has it faults, but there is so much to be thankful to Britain

The Queen is on the Australian. And the New Zealand currency. And the Canadian currency. And to be fair there are plenty of former English colonies which are third world, largely because of colonization and the effects of British withdrawal without changing infrastructure. Kenya, Uganda, India, Fiji, South Africa (sorry), Sudan, Egypt, Papua New Guinea, Namibia etc, etc, etc aren't exactly the world leaders at the moment...But yes, their predominantly white colonies have done well. That's generally the effect of colonization.

As we are a democracy the government is our country as we voted for it. If he does not understand that then he doesnt understand a great deal.

Oh, I see. I didn't realize English politicians were above criticism - and that everyone in England agree with all their decisions so profoundly. Your going to be pretty disappointed that not everyone agrees with the way 50% of Britian voted - including the other 50% of Britian.

 

[Shaggy]

I have to agree with Little Guy where he says there are more important issues than retaining the monarchy or not ... the monarchy have no real power in any of the commonwealth countries, their appointed representatives (Governor Generals) are appointed by the country's Government, and much like the monarchy, are glorified ambassadors anyway.

In my opinion, politicians drag out emotive issues like republic-ism and changing the flag, when they want to divert public attention away from other, more important issues.

As the Monarchy have no power, they also do no harm, and as other posters have said, there is a financial cost to severing ties with the monarchy through legal changes etc.

SANZAR, you state that the monarchy "the antithesis of the values we pretend to hold of equality, fairness and opportunity", but I would suggest that there are more pressing, tangible issues, that Australia, Canada, and New Zealand (all countries I have lived in for a significant time), that need to be addressed if those are values that you want to aspire to as a country.

 

[SimonG]

Kenya, Uganda, India, Fiji, South Africa (sorry), Sudan, Egypt, Papua New Guinea, Namibia etc, etc, etc aren't exactly the world leaders at the moment...But yes, their predominantly white colonies have done well. That's generally the effect of colonization.

The likes of India and Afican nations were not flooded with British colonists to the extent of those nations now considered part of the Anglosphere. Whilst British colonies the indigenous populations dwarfed the colonists. The job the indigenous folk are doing in these countries today says it all.


cmac95....on the question of being "northern Irish"...it's a tricky one. I have literally walked through an airport terminal and when questioned about nationality I had to think twice. Those of us who are nationalist in the north consider ourselves Irish...but we are a different Irish to those in the south. Living under a different jurisdiction has that effect. I suppose it's like east and west Germans. Northern Irish probably makes sense as its a hybrid in terms of identity. We are not Irish Irish if that makes sense...a consequence of over 90 yrs of partition. When that southern woman told McGuinness to "go home" during the presidential candidates question and answers session that caused major uproar here, but she had a point. McGuinness (and Adams) have no business in the south (until such time the country is reunited)...they are entrenched in northern affairs and like most of us have no clue what is happening in the south. I could barely name any southern Irish politicians outside Michael D.Higgins and Enda Kenny (he's still leader yes?).

 

[McTallshort]

Not saying they are but someone cannot say what Sanzar said then simply say oh I like British people just hate their government, well the government is democratically elected so he cannot cover up his obvious prejudices by back tracking like that.

 

[Peat]

Simon - Do you think the idea of being Northern Irish as an identity is something that people are getting more used/welcoming to?

 

[Tony Manx]

Is it not a fact that the catholic population of NI is growing far faster than the protestant population and is not that the main reason behind the agreement to end the "struggles" as the Catholics/Irish people can see a united Ireland being voted in within their lifetimes by the overall Catholic majority so created?

 

[SimonG]

Simon - Do you think the idea of being Northern Irish as an identity is something that people are getting more used/welcoming to?

hmm..depends which community (i hate this word btw) you talk to. The Unionists would be more inclined to embrace it, whereas nationalists see it as limbo...a transient identity in that northern Ireland is seen as a temporary state. With nationalists there is a definite hybrid identity here...we're not "top of the mornin to ya" Irish, nor "god save the queen" British...we are kinda caught in the middle. I'd be a more moderate nationalist whereas there are those who would be more staunchly nationalist and cling on to anything Irish (join gaelic clubs here for example).

Good thing is after many many years of being a small minded backward society, Norn Iron is moving forward and folk are gradually becoming less tribal. Folk are looking outside the box and becoming more worldly.. thanks to easier/cheaper travel, Internet, and immigration of other ethnicities here.

 

[SimonG]

Is it not a fact that the catholic population of NI is growing far faster than the protestant population and is not that the main reason behind the agreement to end the "struggles" as the Catholics/Irish people can see a united Ireland being voted in within their lifetimes by the overall Catholic majority so created?

Not sure about that tbh. Did chuckle a few years ago when a mate said in a rather enthusiastic manner; "Catholics are having more babies so soon we will have our country back"...or words to that effect. What has changed here is immigration...lots of it from east Timor, Lithuania etc. From a society of two tribes (catholic/protestant) its becoming more multicultural and that is something unionists don't like as they see it as changing the status quo.

When you analyse the history of boundaries and nations very little is permanent, there is constant change. While there will be a united Ireland at some point, I don't envisage it happening in my lifetime.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

The likes of India and Afican nations were not flooded with British colonists to the extent of those nations now considered part of the Anglosphere. Whilst British colonies the indigenous populations dwarfed the colonists. The job the indigenous folk are doing in these countries today says it all.


cmac95....on the question of being "northern Irish"...it's a tricky one. I have literally walked through an airport terminal and when questioned about nationality I had to think twice. Those of us who are nationalist in the north consider ourselves Irish...but we are a different Irish to those in the south. Living under a different jurisdiction has that effect. I suppose it's like east and west Germans. Northern Irish probably makes sense as its a hybrid in terms of identity. We are not Irish Irish if that makes sense...a consequence of over 90 yrs of partition. When that southern woman told McGuinness to "go home" during the presidential candidates question and answers session that caused major uproar here, but she had a point. McGuinness (and Adams) have no business in the south (until such time the country is reunited)...they are entrenched in northern affairs and like most of us have no clue what is happening in the south. I could barely name any southern Irish politicians outside Michael D.Higgins and Enda Kenny (he's still leader yes?).

I wouldn't really agree there to be honest. While we could do without McGuinness and Adams here, obviously, it is well within their right considering they can get an Irish passport etc... The North and South are undoubtedly still linked and it should remain like this until a day that/if the country is united otherwise the nationalists in the North will once again feel as if they have been left behind by the South like after our independence and obviously that did the nobody any good. And, yes Kenny is still Taoiseach.

 

[SimonG]

I'm greedy...have both an Irish and British passport. Regards Martin and Gerry, personally dont see how a passport gives them anymore authority to intervene in southern affairs. They have spent their entire lives in the north. The south is generally a very peaceful, civilised society and completely alien to how it has been up here, and those two are interlopers. Maintaining links absolutely, but direct involvement?

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I'm greedy...have both an Irish and British passport. Regards Martin and Gerry, personally dont see how a passport gives them anymore authority to intervene in southern affairs. They have spent their entire lives in the north. The south is generally a very peaceful, civilised society and completely alien to how it has been up here, and those two are interlopers. Maintaining links absolutely, but direct involvement?

If they want it and can achieve it I don't see why not! There's obviously the cultural difference and this is a question of attempting to bridge the gap or leaving it to grow bigger. I'd obviously prefer if it wasn't the likes of Adams and McGuinness but I think the right has to be there while we offer the passport and they/you/we continue to call them/your/ourselves Irish. I'd be certain that there's some Irish in the North who'd do a considerably better job than some of the clowns we have here.

 

[Tony Manx]

Not sure about that tbh. Did chuckle a few years ago when a mate said in a rather enthusiastic manner; "Catholics are having more babies so soon we will have our country back"...or words to that effect. What has changed here is immigration...lots of it from east Timor, Lithuania etc. From a society of two tribes (catholic/protestant) its becoming more multicultural and that is something unionists don't like as they see it as changing the status quo.

When you analyse the history of boundaries and nations very little is permanent, there is constant change. While there will be a united Ireland at some point, I don't envisage it happening in my lifetime.

Good point that I had not thought about....!!!

 

[The big Kangaroo]

I think begin a republic sounds cool, but nothing would change so there is no point in doing it. I don't think see it happening anytime soon after seeing the media coverage of the royal tour. one of the funny headlines was the breaking news of will and Kate walking 500m to a sheep pavilion









lest we forget.

 

[InsaneAsylum]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_republic_referendum,_1999

It seems this question has already been put to the Australian people back in 1999 and was resoundingly rejected. Almost 55% nationally voting no to an Australian President.

i remember clearly I voted to reject. I wouldn't exactly call myself a monarchist or a republican, I don't love or hate the royals or Great Britain, but I don't think becoming a republic will change anything significant off us here. I want to keep our flag though because it's ours, I don't even care about the Union Jack, it is simply our flag which I am proud of.