Aviva Premiership - Round 20

[TRF_Olyy]

I'm assuming it was classed as a dangerous tackle, I think thats what he said.

With Brown, as far as I saw they both got carried offer in the general comotion surrounding trying to get the ball. Brown certainly didn't lift Flood up. Obviously he then got in Floods face on the floor which doesn't make him look that innocent I admit.

Obviously I haven't had a chance to to watch it back, and wont for at least another day, but it seems fairly clear cut. One was a dangerous tackle, another was not.

Brown clearly dump tackled Flood, there was no falling over. Flood stumbled over whichever Tigers player was on the floor, and into Brown who then "lashed out" by dump tackling him/getting into his face on the floor. Brown probably thought Flood was trying to push him off the player on the floor, hence the reaction.
It was a dump, rather than a tip, though. Penalty but no card.

I thought all of the cards were correct, though think he possibly went light on Robson as striking a player in the head is an automatic red in my books.

I like Wigglesworth as a referee, to be fair. Not afraid to make the big calls (the penalty try/the reds last week). Possibly a little too pedantic on the laws/not allowing the game to flow as much, but he referees to the letter of the law, and to each team equally - in theory you can't ask for more than that.

 

[Patchey]

Fair enough, I'm happy to take your word for it. i'm sure it'll be in the highlights package anyway.


As far as the rugby itself, I was on the edge of my seat. Thought it was a great game, and the atmosphere at the Stoop sounded incredible. I still find myself furous at Quin's inability to secure ball at the rucks. I know part of our style relies of offloading and keeping as many men in the attacking line as possible but the amount of turnovers we give away is silly. I often feel we ride our luck too much.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Fair enough, I'm happy to take your word for it. i'm sure it'll be in the highlights package anyway.

For a game like this you would be best off looking at the full game on the premiership website.

Sinkler is certainly one for the future as I thing some of us noticed when they played sarries. Ayerza just got to him in the second half but considering they isn't many LH in the world better than ayerza that bloody brilliant for a 21 year old. From a Leicester viewpoint he is like a Cole (in his earlier years)/Mulipola lovechild.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Matera's was a tip tackle - tackled player went beyond horizontal. The ref has the leeway to decide which card is appropriate.
I thought Robson was hard done by, because it looked to me like he went to push Matera.
I'm not saying it wasn't a yellow - for running in and potentially escalating the situation - but it was not a swinging arm IMO.
The second camera angle shows it much more clearly.

Flood (not very aggressively TBF) grabbed Brown - Brown grabbed back and Toby took out Toby's legs.
Not a dump because he didn't lift him - just took his legs.

Rats, if you're watching this game, what is it that makes Sinckler so good at the scrum? I'm terrible at analysing front rows. All I know is he is winning.

He's ****ing strong - that helps. A lot.
He's not a particularly aggressive scrummager - he's happy enough if he can lock out and provide a platform/not concede ground or a penalty.
Those two things force the LH to have to use very big angles to destabilise him, in order to drive him back or negate his drive.

Most LH's go-to tactic is to walk around the outside of the TH, or simply drive in without shifting their hips/feet out (They need to be very strong to do that though).
This is very obvious.

Initially Ayerza was just driving straight and not doing much wrestling from what I remember - and he got no change, and was in fact beaten.
What Ayerza did to get around Sinckler was a bit more subtle and much harder to referee than simply not driving straight.
Instead of stepping out and driving in at a really obvious angle, he was pulling Kyle's outside shoulder down really hard, then driving back up, and into him (towards the hooker) once he had lost his shape.
This means that Kyle has to spend all of his energy trying to keep his outside shoulder up and out - as opposed to just pushing back against a straight drive.
A natural reaction to this is to swing the hips out.
All this makes it difficult for the ref to tell whether the TH is angling in, or the LH is pulling down/collapsing.

What was so impressive, was that you could see him trying to work out how to counteract it - and he managed to do that towards the end.

All my opinion of course, and the scrum can be interpreted very differently by different people.

It was a great contest which Kyle just about edged IMO.

 

[Nielsch]

Quins - Bath in the last round is shaping up to be awesome. Winner will go to the play-offs (probably).

 

[TheSaffycen]

He's ****ing strong - that helps. A lot.
He's not a particularly aggressive scrummager - he's happy enough if he can lock out and provide a platform/not concede ground or a penalty.
Those two things force the LH to have to use very big angles to destabilise him, in order to drive him back or negate his drive.

Most LH's go-to tactic is to walk around the outside of the TH, or simply drive in without shifting their hips/feet out (They need to be very strong to do that though).
This is very obvious.

Initially Ayerza was just driving straight and not doing much wrestling from what I remember - and he got no change, and was in fact beaten.
What Ayerza did to get around Sinckler was a bit more subtle and much harder to referee than simply not driving straight.
Instead of stepping out and driving in at a really obvious angle, he was pulling Kyle's outside shoulder down really hard, then driving back up, and into him (towards the hooker) once he had lost his shape.
This means that Kyle has to spend all of his energy trying to keep his outside shoulder up and out - as opposed to just pushing back against a straight drive.
A natural reaction to this is to swing the hips out.
All this makes it difficult for the ref to tell whether the TH is angling in, or the LH is pulling down/collapsing.

What was so impressive, was that you could see him trying to work out how to counteract it - and he managed to do that towards the end.

All my opinion of course, and the scrum can be interpreted very differently by different people.

I was going to have a go at explaining it as I have played a lot at tighthead but this was bloody brilliant

 

[Patchey]

Quins - Bath in the last round is shaping up to be awesome. Winner will go to the play-offs (probably).

As a neutral it will be incredible.

As a Quins fan, not so much. Bath make me nervous.



Cheers Rats, really got analysis there. I agree its impressive that Sinckler was dominated for a bit but didn't cave and came back strong. I just with BT hadn't been talking about him like he was playing his first ever senior game or something.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Stinger has been good so far.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Gloucesters defence is gash - Wasps making line breaks for fun.
Great try for Daly



Edit:
Sale dominating down in Exeter, apparently. Cipriani bossing it and Faz is in the crowd observing.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Sale 55 - 12 Exeter
8 tries

Nice

 

[ratsapprentice]

I think exe are a little tired.

 

[Patchey]

Exeter have faded towards the end of the season for a couple of years now no? I think they and Wasps show that while you can build a really good 23 on a budget, you've got to have major squad depth to compete all season in the Prem and/or Europe.

Juts going hunting for some Stinger highlights. Was offered a ticket but am away from London this weekend, sounds like I missed a great day :/

 

[Draggs]

Bath win 32-20 with a try BP over Worcester. Third place with 64pts, bet they'd love to have that game v Sale back.
Ok, who is kind of glad to see Gloucs downed by Wasps? Young v Davies, two great Welsh coaches there.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Bath win 32-20 with a try BP over Worcester. Third place with 64pts, bet they'd love to have that game v Sale back.

Considering how poor they looked last week, and from what I've read how much they struggled today, I wouldn't mind it either - we could deny them the LBP and be closer to them

Ok, who is kind of glad to see Gloucs downed by Wasps? Young v Davies, two great Welsh coaches there.

I think every neutral

 

[Draggs]

They need more Gavin, obv.

 

[bertiec]

pah

Matera's was a tip tackle - tackled player went beyond horizontal. The ref has the leeway to decide which card is appropriate.
I thought Robson was hard done by, because it looked to me like he went to push Matera.
I'm not saying it wasn't a yellow - for running in and potentially escalating the situation - but it was not a swinging arm IMO.
The second camera angle shows it much more clearly.

Flood (not very aggressively TBF) grabbed Brown - Brown grabbed back and Toby took out Toby's legs.
Not a dump because he didn't lift him - just took his legs.




He's ****ing strong - that helps. A lot.
He's not a particularly aggressive scrummager - he's happy enough if he can lock out and provide a platform/not concede ground or a penalty.
Those two things force the LH to have to use very big angles to destabilise him, in order to drive him back or negate his drive.

Most LH's go-to tactic is to walk around the outside of the TH, or simply drive in without shifting their hips/feet out (They need to be very strong to do that though).
This is very obvious.

Initially Ayerza was just driving straight and not doing much wrestling from what I remember - and he got no change, and was in fact beaten.
What Ayerza did to get around Sinckler was a bit more subtle and much harder to referee than simply not driving straight.
Instead of stepping out and driving in at a really obvious angle, he was pulling Kyle's outside shoulder down really hard, then driving back up, and into him (towards the hooker) once he had lost his shape.
This means that Kyle has to spend all of his energy trying to keep his outside shoulder up and out - as opposed to just pushing back against a straight drive.
A natural reaction to this is to swing the hips out.
All this makes it difficult for the ref to tell whether the TH is angling in, or the LH is pulling down/collapsing.

What was so impressive, was that you could see him trying to work out how to counteract it - and he managed to do that towards the end.

All my opinion of course, and the scrum can be interpreted very differently by different people.

It was a great contest which Kyle just about edged IMO.

Ok. so its alright to tackle off the ball and after the whistle? I got some coffee here if you need a sniff. Sinckler got the benefit of the ref nothing much else. His feet were to far back bringing the scrum down a few times, and got a penalty. He drove in a few times as well. Robson "made contact with an arm moving toward a player and no attempt to tackle". Red. for retaliation and a swinging arm. I have known Tigers to have 6 scrums on the line brought down by cynical fouls before a pt given. The game was good the ref worse than Wayne (should have gone to spec savers) Barnes.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

What a man.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Why the **** aren't ruck stats published?

So ****ing stupid.

 

[Draggs]

Why the **** aren't ruck stats published?

So ****ing stupid.

It's the backs, trying to hog all the glory.

 

[Patchey]

Ok. so its alright to tackle off the ball and after the whistle? I got some coffee here if you need a sniff. Sinckler got the benefit of the ref nothing much else. His feet were to far back bringing the scrum down a few times, and got a penalty. He drove in a few times as well. Robson "made contact with an arm moving toward a player and no attempt to tackle". Red. for retaliation and a swinging arm. I have known Tigers to have 6 scrums on the line brought down by cynical fouls before a pt given. The game was good the ref worse than Wayne (should have gone to spec savers) Barnes.

I suppose Tigers are always victims right? Also, as Wayne Barnes' decisions have, intentionally or otherwise, been very good for Tigers in recent season I don't think you've got much cause for criticising him.

What a man.

Well Faz was at the game, lets hope he counted the rucks as well...

*Dreamy eyes*

Seymour in an England shirt would be wonderful.