Aviva Premiership - Round 4

[ratsapprentice]

Sinckler's looked just as good as he did last season when he's just been defensive/locking out - very, very strong in that regard.
I think he's been tasked with being more aggressive and trying to pressure the opposition, which is where he's running into trouble - I don't think Ward (or Matthews) is helping him much here.
Put an Attwood or Kohn behind him, and Webber beside him and I think he'd trouble his opposition a lot more.

Ewers has to be in the EPS this season - he's also definitely a 6... perfect example of a classic "smash everything" blindside.
I think the England coaches will like the way he ****ing demolishes on his clearouts.

 

[Crapspray]

With Slade, I'd have to agree with what Healey said in commentary (and vomit in my mouth slightly), he really has to be in the EPS this autumn to have a chance of starting by the world cup. He seems to be on the radar with the Barbarians game, so here's hoping.

Given how meh Twelvetrees has been it's Eastmond for me. It would be interesting to see two stand-offs being played, since that's basically how Lancaster says he wants his attack. Ford and Slade? Surely England's inside-centres aren't that crap.

 

[goodNumber10]

Slade is looking excellent, though i have to say i am a big fan of steenson.

Also small mention for that elliot daley half break for the varndell try in the wasps falcons game....

 

[Peat]

I think I'd have given that try initially. Looked flat initially from me, and I'd rather the benefit of the doubt went to the guys playing rugby - besides, in this case, they need to say the pass was forwards, and I can't see how they can categorically say it was before bouncing; and if they're wrong, I've got a word with the refs for Ulster's game...

Still, fantastic break, then fantastic work to pressure the situation.

Putting a pair of 21 fly-halves in and asking the one with a bit more experience at 12 to lead the defence seems a bit suicidal to me. Long term, I believe Slade is an option, but I'd be surprised if it happens this season. Besides, has Slade even played 12 this season?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Given how meh Twelvetrees has been it's Eastmond for me. It would be interesting to see two stand-offs being played, since that's basically how Lancaster says he wants his attack. Ford and Slade? Surely England's inside-centres aren't that crap.

Yeah, I'd agree that Eastmond is next in line.
I just really think Slade should be in the EPS, he's shown that he's a genuine option in the centres (as well at 10) and it isn't just a case of Exeter shoe-horning him into the 23 because they want both him and Steenson.

You say "surely England's [...] centre's aren't that crap" but we don't have a settled centre partnership, and Twelvetrees is looking worse at time goes on.

Slade hasn't put a foot wrong, I'd definitely have him in the top few options.
I'd pick X amount from:
Eastmond, Tuilagi, Burrell, Slade, Hill, Twelvetrees, Joseph, Barritt.


I really like Daly, but it seems that Lancaster doesn't, and he's got the most questionable defence of any of the possibilities (other than Trinder and occasionally Joseph).



My two centre partnerships, based on the start of the season, would be Eastmond & Tuilagi, and Burrell & Slade

 

[Crapspray]

I was more surprised that England's centres might indeed be that crap at the moment. On paper there's tons of players kicking around, but Lancaster just can't seem to get any of them to mesh properly.

So yeah, I see nothing against throwing Slade in- anywhere in the backline. He looks the real deal, so he's going to be in within the next few years anyway; let's just cut to the chase. I don't expect him to start any time soon, but a cap or two against Samoa/Italy/Scotland would be interesting to see.

---

A bit disappointed that Nowell hasn't featured more today. Understandable, given his long absence, but I'd like to see him throw his hat into the ring soon. All I remember is him being bounced by Brown- who continues to be the shiniest piece of sweetcorn in the 'Quins turd.

EDIT: Just as I say Nowell hasn't featured...

 

[Peat]

I feel like I've missed something. I don't watch too much of Bath, but Joseph's defence was like a rock for LI. I'm surprised it's viewed as questionable now.

I feel dirty for saying this, but if Twelvetrees doesn't find some form, I want Barritt in the side - stick him at 13, Eastmond or Slade at 12, Tuilagi on the wing. Mad, but not quite as mad as starting a centre-partnership with no one to lead the defence.

Oh look, a stupid yellow card. Consistent, I'll give you, but really stupid.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Hmm, maybe I'm mistaken then. I've always had the impression that, while his defence itself is all right, he drops off tackles.
Stats have him as missing 5 tackles this season, which ain't bad. Burrell's missed 8, for comparison.

 

[ratsapprentice]

JJ has been a rock in defence for us - yesterday was actually probably his worst defensive performance for us.
And even then that was just just 2 bad missed tackles.

Ewers is a ****ing animal. I'd have him starting on this form.
He is also one of the only flankers who can cover number 8 - something that Lancaster obviously wants on the bench.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Haskell/Ewers at 6/20 would be boss.

 

[Peat]

I'm quietly impressed and appalled then Quins managed to concede to a crossfield kick when a man up. That's special that is.

They're suffering rotten luck with backs injuries but things do look wrong there.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Saffy - What would he offer that our current back-rows don't?

Well it's just his level of play. Everything he has done he's done really well, but I wouldn't have him yet it's just if he keeps going the way he does. His carrying was very good, made 26 meters in 9 carries but they were all hard yards.

More stats from the weekend Foden made 96 meters beating 5 defenders and having one clean break, and was brilliant under the ball. If we play a fullback on the wing I don't mind it being him. Burrell made 5 tackles but missed 5 !! His defence was awful but I was impressed with his try assist, a ball every centre should make but ours have a habit of not. Rokoduguni made 84 meters, beating 8 DEFENDERS ! 2 clean breaks. He has to be in the AI teams, he can play 14/13 and would add alot of pace and power on the wing with Yarde.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Foden was pants on the wing for England.

 

[Patchey]

John Fisher reminds me of the man whose injury he was signed to offset, Sam Dickinson. Might make a BaBaas game and will probably be with the Saxons if he keeps it up but not much further.



Only caught the last ten of the Quins game (beautiful try by Slade, phwoar) so I've yet to feel the pain. Ewers looked very, very good though. If I look at Exeter's pack and then at Quins' we need a Ewers type, 20 stone lump in order to compare. Seeing how devestating it was will have brought that home to the Quins fans who an insisting that our pack can beat the big boys by being 'dynamic'.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Foden was pants on the wing for England.

Was he ? I always thought he played well and did everything asked of him it was just the system we played that doesn't accomidate wingers all that well. I would rather Roko and ? May, Yarde, Nowell but if Lancaster goes for a fullback i would rather Foden than Nowell. Just becuase of he has the pace for a winger and I think his kicking is better.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Well, Mike Brown did significantly better than Foden did. And I don't think many people are clamoring for the heady days of Mike on the wing.

 

[Peat]

Quins pack might be able to beat the big boys by being dynamic if their forwards were good enough at being dynamic and if they were allied to a back line dangerous enough to keep the game moving fast. Right now, the answer to those things are no and no.

Some will disagree with me, but as far as I'm concerned, playing well is not enough these days. Either you offer something none of the other choices do, or you play so ridiculously incredibly eye-catchingly good that the coach will be lynched for not picking you - or you wait for collapses in form/fitness. It's just not worth risking the familiarity the international team builds up for a guy who may be a little better once he's acclimatised to international rugby. Given our current depth in the abck row, I think Fisher doesn't have a hope as things stand. Not exactly fair, but the right thing to do.

If Foden's recovered form, then he's a shout for the wing, because I can't recall any dumb defensive things there, which makes him a massive rarity among England wingers - and yeah, that means I think he did better than Brown. I'm going to keep jumping up and down about Tuilagi though as, unless Twelvetrees recovers form, I don't see how you can get a midfield that is defensively secure, creative and contains Tuilagi.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I don't think yarde should be guaranteed his place.
He's been poor for Quins (though their back play in general hasn't been great).

 

[TheSaffycen]

I agree that Fisher doesn't offer us anything different so it's hard for us too say yep he will be picked. I just think that if he keeps up playing well then Saxons is on at least then who knows ? He has a very good ability of whenever the ball hits the ground of being the first guy on it.
With Brown being better than Foden, well I would guess so because Brown is in the prime of his career. He is also a better runner through traffic than Foden which England wingers have needed to be, but my point is that if it was between Nowell and Foden then I would go for Foden. He is a good try scorer and has real gas, if there was an overlap I would want Foden there over Nowell just because I have seen Nowell get caught by defenders when it looks like he's going to go through.

 

[Patchey]

Agreed Peat. When we had Johnson, Mo and Kohn the rest of the pack actually could work in being dynamic and really getting around the pack in support of our beautiful backs moves. Now there's no one to do the grunt work and as a result we can't do the dynamic stuff.

Part of the issues is Quins' desire to promote from within. I'm normally a massive fan of this but we've consistently failed to bring in a proper, big lock two two season now. First it was 'Bring in Kennedy as a stop gap and let Matthews develop', now its 'Matthews can make the shirt his own this year given game time, if he doesn't an academy lad will step up next year'. Would have been much better to spend big on an late twenties, 18 stone+ lock to compete with Robson and Matthews for a few seasons and then tell the academy guys to start eating pies and deadlifting everything that isn't bolted down.

I don't think yarde should be guaranteed his place.
He's been poor for Quins (though their back play in general hasn't been great).

To be fair, he's been given nothing to work with and his still been the best back by a mile. Maybe that isn't saying much, considering how poor everyone else has been, but just as it was unfair for Kvesic to carry the blame of operating in a failing pack last year, Brown shouldn't be made to carry the responsibility of how lazy Yarde has looked or how gash JTH has been.