Best choice for wales fly half

[willrobinson]

Who do people reckon is the best choice for wales fly half ?

Because even though Preistland seems to be first choice at the moment he never seems to be able to perform on the day
and always seems to kick to kick away possession with poor kicks.

Where as dan bigger had a fantastic season last year with the ospreys and seemed confident and reliable with kicking and distribution.

and with leigh halfpenny always a risk with injuries surly we need a reliable kicker at 10

I also reckon wales could use hook and stephan jones in the same way that ireland used o'gara by starting with the more experienced 10 and introducing the younger generation slower (also adding more competition and pressure to play better) then what happened cause from what i can remember preistland was scheduled to play 15 but jones got injured and he went to 10 and hasn't really budged since even though performance is getting worse and worse.

 

[Draggs]

-The 50/50 genius of Hook extracted
-Dan Biggar's boot (last year Biggar)
-Nicky Robinson's pass
-The pace of Gavin Henson

From what I have heard, Hook has been in good form for Perpignan, but the internet tells me that he isn't a five eighths...
As Patchell had a good match, I believe if he has one more over the next month, he is given the ***le of Next Great Welsh Outside Half.
Kicker must be at outside half is antiquated. If our 8 is the best kicker, than so be it. Mark Jones seems to be caught up in 1990 and think otherwise.

Priestland is the Lee Byrne of this four-year cycle. Unfortunately, Biggar has been poor lately, or else we could give him a shot in November.

 

[welshglory]

I would have Priestland and Hook as the 10's in the squad, if Howley decides on a bigger squad then Biggar as well.

I'd start Priestland against Argentina and see how he goes, with Hook on the bench. If he's still crap then give Hook a shot against Samoa.

 

[dullonien]

I honestly don't know. Friday's game between the Ospreys and Scarlets will tell us a lot about Priestland and Biggar. Without Adam Jones playing, I can see the pack's being fairly evenly matched, so both 10's can be compared quite well (in theory). Priestland's main problem at the moment is his place kicking, but that will most likely not be an issue for Wales with imo the best kicker in world rugby playing at fullback (I expect Halfpenny to be available despite picking up a small injury a couple of weeks ago). I personally wouldn't have Biggar as first choice. He has to be 100% reliable, because he doesn't offer the attacking threat of either Priestland or Hook. He's been far from reliable so far this season, so I think we may as well forget about him.

Difficult to comment on Hook. I simply don't get any opportunities to see him play. If Priestland's form doesn't improve over the coming month, then Hook would probably be the best option though.

There is no other options. Selecting Stephen Jones would be a step backwards. Matthew Morgan has looked like a 12 y/o playing for the Ospreys. Patchell and Aled Thomas shouldn't be close to selection for a good year or two. Unfortunately the Blues have decided that Tovey isn't better than Sweeney (or is he injured?).

So after all that: Priestland or Hook (both in the 22).

-The 50/50 genius of Hook extracted
-Dan Biggar's boot (last year Biggar)
-Nicky Robinson's pass
-The pace and sidestep of Matthew Morgan
- Stephen Jones' defense.

Fixed.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Who do people reckon is the best choice for wales fly half ?

Because even though Preistland seems to be first choice at the moment he never seems to be able to perform on the day
and always seems to kick to kick away possession with poor kicks.

Where as dan bigger had a fantastic season last year with the ospreys and seemed confident and reliable with kicking and distribution.

and with leigh halfpenny always a risk with injuries surly we need a reliable kicker at 10

I also reckon wales could use hook and stephan jones in the same way that ireland used o'gara by starting with the more experienced 10 and introducing the younger generation slower (also adding more competition and pressure to play better) then what happened cause from what i can remember preistland was scheduled to play 15 but jones got injured and he went to 10 and hasn't really budged since even though performance is getting worse and worse.

We all hated that. ROG is an old gimp who needs to shove off pronto. Johnny 10 should have been handed the shirt after the 2009 South Africa test and that should have been the end of the matter. Deccie does have his favourites sadly.

Anywoo, the Welsh should have Hook and Biggar as their two outhalf options. Priestland is muck. One swallow a summer does not make.

 

[Draggs]

Wellies' defence was a great myth. Not saying he was poor, but his capabilities were often overstated. I'll have Henson's tackling if I have the option.

Tovey is ill, Dull. Even without kicking Priestland looked off all year for us. He almost cost us the Triple Crown (Phillips and Halfpenny saved us). He also made numerous errors in Australia. Even when Priestland was in good form I felt he was not as good as many said. His supposed strength was bringing Roberts into the game. All Priestland really did was try less than Hook. Also, the anti-Hook and pro-Hook mafia are too busy arguing to actually try and made a valid point.

Feic, I understand ROG is poor these days, but the way I have seen many Irish fans bail on him is surprising (not referring to you or anybody on TRF). The number of matches he won that Ireland honestly had no business winning is massive. I'll get killed for saying it aloud, but what I would have given to have him over Stephen Jones in some matches. Interesting fact that many people I have come across don't realise is that Sexton is a month younger than Hook. I am always told (again, not by people here) that Sexton is a young gun and one for the future.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Wellies' defence was a great myth. Not saying he was poor, but his capabilities were often overstated. I'll have Henson's tackling if I have the option.

Tovey is ill, Dull. Even without kicking Priestland looked off all year for us. He almost cost us the Triple Crown (Phillips and Halfpenny saved us). He also made numerous errors in Australia. Even when Priestland was in good form I felt he was not as good as many said. His supposed strength was bringing Roberts into the game. All Priestland really did was try less than Hook. Also, the anti-Hook and pro-Hook mafia are too busy arguing to actually try and made a valid point.

Feic, I understand ROG is poor these days, but the way I have seen many Irish fans bail on him is surprising (not referring to you or anybody on TRF). The number of matches he won that Ireland honestly had no business winning is massive. I'll get killed for saying it aloud, but what I would have given to have him over Stephen Jones in some matches. Interesting fact that many people I have come across don't realise is that Sexton is a month younger than Hook. I am always told (again, not by people here) that Sexton is a young gun and one for the future.

Without meaning to derail the thread, I would like to point out that ROG (and this is going to stir some serious ****) only remained in the Ireland team due to the complete lack of other options and most of what he did could have been done by any semi competent outhalf. The only reason he's been anywhere near the national team for the last two seasons is due to favouritism, he certainly hasn't justified his spot in the squad. Heck, he shouldn't even be Munster's first choice should Keatley keep playing the way he is.

Now, your point about him winning matches we wouldn't have won without him. I'm sure there are lots of examples that you can give no doubt, but in truth I don't remember all that many of them and the ones I can think of, another fly half could have done the job. In the Italy game last season any 10 worth his salt would have nailed that kick, same goes for the Grand Slam game. In fact, in that 2009 season he was tremendously poor, and if it hadn't been for that kick which completely papered over the cracks, he wouldn't still be in the setup.

He does of course have his good points. He's a good goal kicker and is excellent at kicking the corners, which is good if your line out is on top, as ours was up until about 2010. However, once you are losing the set pieces, ROG's style becomes more of a hindererance than a help. Since 2010 scrums and line outs have not been our friends, yet he continues to play a game suited to a team with a very strong front five, as opposed to one with a dynamic back row, which we possess.

Then there's the fact that he's an average distributor, offers no running threat whatsoever and is such a liability in defence that he has to be babysat by one of the backrow forwards, greatly reducing our competitiveness at the breakdown. Those flaws, while not as flashy as some of the last minute kicks, have cost us as many games as he has supposedly won us, but you can't hone in on one incident in the same fashion. It was however demonstrated by how much more effective David Wallace looked on the 09 Lions tour. With a competent defensive outhalf outside him he didn't have to worry about minding the 10 channel and could compete more in the tight. All of a sudden he was ahead of the great Martyn Williams in the pecking order!

So yes, he was a good player. Not great, but a passable international 10. Essentially Stephen Jones minus the ability to defend.

 

[dullonien]

Wellies' defence was a great myth. Not saying he was poor, but his capabilities were often overstated. I'll have Henson's tackling if I have the option.

Tovey is ill, Dull. Even without kicking Priestland looked off all year for us. He almost cost us the Triple Crown (Phillips and Halfpenny saved us). He also made numerous errors in Australia. Even when Priestland was in good form I felt he was not as good as many said. His supposed strength was bringing Roberts into the game. All Priestland really did was try less than Hook. Also, the anti-Hook and pro-Hook mafia are too busy arguing to actually try and made a valid point.

Yeh, Henson's defense in his prime was excellent. Really could put in some big hits as well, not just the one against Tait. Maybe also take Henson's kicking out of hand (again from his prime), and his general distribution (retaining Robinson's long passing). Any current/recent fly-half candidate for hand-off? Sweeney's always had a decent hand-off on him.

Regarding Priestland. I agree that his form was close to terrible last season, even without the kicking duties. He had a few nice touches against Ireland, but then went downhill from there. However Biggar has never performed for Wales, and his form for the Ospreys is completely inconsistent. I still feel that Priestland organizes the backline better than Biggar. In fact the organization of the Ospreys backline is close to laughable, and I don't want to see the Wales 10 go awol during attacking plays like Biggar often does after a few phases for the Ospreys.

Unfortunately, our options at 10 isn't great atm, so for me Priestland get's in, basically because he's the best of a bad bunch after Hook (who himself hasn't proven to be consistent in the fly-half position).

 

[Draggs]

James Hook has never been given a consistent run at outside half.
He has never played outside half more than six times uninterrupted (2007, including a 22 point haul against England, a last minute loss to Australia, and a win over Argentina).

Priestland has. Since the end of the World Cup, he has only not been the starting outside half once (Barbarians).

The Ospreys made everybody think they had a backline. In reality, they had a kicker and three try scorers (Beck, Dirksen, Shane).

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Without meaning to derail the thread, I would like to point out that ROG (and this is going to stir some serious ****) only remained in the Ireland team due to the complete lack of other options and most of what he did could have been done by any semi competent outhalf. The only reason he's been anywhere near the national team for the last two seasons is due to favouritism, he certainly hasn't justified his spot in the squad. Heck, he shouldn't even be Munster's first choice should Keatley keep playing the way he is.

Now, your point about him winning matches we wouldn't have won without him. I'm sure there are lots of examples that you can give no doubt, but in truth I don't remember all that many of them and the ones I can think of, another fly half could have done the job. In the Italy game last season any 10 worth his salt would have nailed that kick, same goes for the Grand Slam game. In fact, in that 2009 season he was tremendously poor, and if it hadn't been for that kick which completely papered over the cracks, he wouldn't still be in the setup.

He does of course have his good points. He's a good goal kicker and is excellent at kicking the corners, which is good if your line out is on top, as ours was up until about 2010. However, once you are losing the set pieces, ROG's style becomes more of a hindererance than a help. Since 2010 scrums and line outs have not been our friends, yet he continues to play a game suited to a team with a very strong front five, as opposed to one with a dynamic back row, which we possess.

Then there's the fact that he's an average distributor, offers no running threat whatsoever and is such a liability in defence that he has to be babysat by one of the backrow forwards, greatly reducing our competitiveness at the breakdown. Those flaws, while not as flashy as some of the last minute kicks, have cost us as many games as he has supposedly won us, but you can't hone in on one incident in the same fashion. It was however demonstrated by how much more effective David Wallace looked on the 09 Lions tour. With a competent defensive outhalf outside him he didn't have to worry about minding the 10 channel and could compete more in the tight. All of a sudden he was ahead of the great Martyn Williams in the pecking order!

So yes, he was a good player. Not great, but a passable international 10. Essentially Stephen Jones minus the ability to defend.

That is an extremely harsh judgement of RO'G.I agree that he shouldn't be in the squad anymore but not that he should have been benchman since 09'. Do you remember how bad Jonny was in the first few matches in the WC we needed RO'G then and to be honest this was the first year Sexton showed any consistency in green.
There have been plenty of matches where O`Gara won the game for Ireland. Against S.A in 04 he ran the game, Australia 02 he came on cold off the bench to land a winning kick, he was superb against France in 09 and dragged Ireland kicking and screaming back into the match against France in 07. O'Gara has been Ireland's most important out half and I would rank him among Ireland's best and for a lot of his career he was the second best 10 in the world. Us Leinsters are overly overly harsh in RO'G just because he is the worlds biggest dick. I'd say most professional rugby players are a bit dickish you don't get to the top by being modest.


Edit: Sorry just realised this was a Wales out half thread. I saw Feics post in the forum page and it angered my and resulted in this post. Delete it or move it if you like but i put too much work into it to delete it myself.

 

[welshglory]

Any current/recent fly-half candidate for hand-off?

Hooky

 

[Draggs]

That is an extremely harsh judgement of RO'G.I agree that he shouldn't be in the squad anymore but not that he should have been benchman since 09'. Do you remember how bad Jonny was in the first few matches in the WC we needed RO'G then and to be honest this was the first year Sexton showed any consistency in green.
There have been plenty of matches where O`Gara won the game for Ireland. Against S.A in 04 he ran the game, Australia 02 he came on cold off the bench to land a winning kick, he was superb against France in 09 and dragged Ireland kicking and screaming back into the match against France in 07. O'Gara has been Ireland's most important out half and I would rank him among Ireland's best and for a lot of his career he was the second best 10 in the world. Us Leinsters are overly overly harsh in RO'G just because he is the worlds biggest dick. I'd say most professional rugby players are a bit dickish you don't get to the top by being modest.


Edit: Sorry just realised this was a Wales out half thread. I saw Feics post in the forum page and it angered my and resulted in this post. Delete it or move it if you like but i put too much work into it to delete it myself.

What the flying **** is an out half?

BAN

 

[Sker]

Like an outhouse, but no shitter.

 

[Draggs]

Like an outhouse, but no shitter.

A really bad shed?

 

[Tony Manx]

Priestland showed up at the RWC but has not since............have seen Hook twice this season for Perpignan and has been no better than average although would concede so has the team but, conversely, one of the games I saw was the win in Barcelona against ST. Jones is surely out of the picture and have not seen Biggar but............. has he had any longer run than Hook has supposedly had?

As for ROG................I have felt for a number of years that he is not an international player, although was brilliant in the time he was and for what he did, and that his position is latterly solely due to the fact that he sings the national anthem but not the all Island song, Ireland!! You can always tell....................Stuart Barnes drooled over him!!

Soooooooooooooooooo..................I would give Biggar a go and have Priestland as back up with Hook as a utility back who can play 10. Sorted!

 

[DuncTheDoodle]

Yeh, Henson's defense in his prime was excellent. Really could put in some big hits as well, not just the one against Tait. Maybe also take Henson's kicking out of hand (again from his prime), and his general distribution (retaining Robinson's long passing). Any current/recent fly-half candidate for hand-off? Sweeney's always had a decent hand-off on him.

Far, as I'm concerned, we let Priestland keep the shirt for the first game, as he provides something of a middle ground between all the other options, then look to change it if that doesn't work in the Samoa game, possibly by letting Biggar and Hook have a half each. Provided he continues to perform, let's get Patchell training with the squad, but not formally in it unless we pick up a couple of injuries. I'm not sure about him being the next Barry John, but we need to start looking at him, Jordan Williams and Matthew Morgan in case one of them has it in them and we can try and build that from an early age. I fear we've missed the boat with Tovey, which is a real shame, as he's long been a terrific player.

 

[Draggs]

Sounds like Biggar had a good match yesterday, wonder if it will make any impression on Howley.

Dunc, Tovey was close to cracking the Welsh squad (named in the tour party for the 2009 North American tour) and he made a few wider training squads, but he had injuries at the wrong times.
He still has a chance, he just needs to have an injury-free run.

Priestland, pending any massive changes, will be our first-choice outside half for the Argentine test.

 

[psychic duck]

Dan Biggar's improving vision and decision making skills. He's outplaying Priestland (who's punt kicking has was poor vs Australia) at the moment and is the leading Welsh player in the RaboPro12 Golden Boot standings (http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/statzone/rhino_golden_boot.php) and most of those misses were all in the first match against Treviso.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/i3ViJflBhbE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Dunc, Tovey was close to cracking the Welsh squad (named in the tour party for the 2009 North American tour) and he made a few wider training squads, but he had injuries at the wrong times.
He still has a chance, he just needs to have an injury-free run.

And improve an awful lot more.

Priestland, pending any massive changes, will be our first-choice outside half for the Argentine test.

There have been massive changes, Priestland's RWC form has disappeared, his punt kicking has turned poor, his goal kicking has turned atrocious and Biggar has improved markedly. I hope the decision for Wales 10 vs Argentina is between Hook and Biggar tbh.

 

[welshglory]

What's disappointing is that it's taken him 3/4 seasons.

I fear that on the international stage he would revert back to his comfort zone by kicking the ball away and/or pointlessly shoveling it on regardless of the situation.

 

[willrobinson]

Been rewatching the first game against australia down under and preistland is terrible they could of won if hook was ten i reckon. every punt was out of reach for the chasers. wales had a huge overlap on the right with about 15 minutes to go and preistland passed it over the centres head forcing him to jump and knock it on. about 10 minutes in they had a break preistland goes into scrum half and knocks it on when picking it up. his form has just gone out of the window completely.