Bryan Habana

[Kiwi_]

give this man a bells!

i've never rated Banana actually...

He's played 3 world cups now but only because there is no-one else in the SA setup "who has experience and knows how to win"... so Banana gets to play 15 games

look at the other players he is up against like Lomu and Howlett... Lomu played in 2 wc and only played what? 8 or 10 games? Banana (because of no competition regarding selection) get to play 3 wcs

i think if he breaks lomu's record, no-one will be able to beat that, not with the amount of competition when it comes to selection, 1 player might only play 1 maybe 2 RWC going forward with x amount of starts let alone tries...

if someone breaks the 15 try record in LESS amount of games Lomu played, id be fcking impressed... but Banana? plsssss...

Wow, you could probably talk down Jesus if you had to.

Banana?

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

give this man a bells!

i've never rated Banana actually...

He's played 3 world cups now but only because there is no-one else in the SA setup "who has experience and knows how to win"... so Banana gets to play 15 games

look at the other players he is up against like Lomu and Howlett... Lomu played in 2 wc and only played what? 8 or 10 games? Banana (because of no competition regarding selection) get to play 3 wcs

i think if he breaks lomu's record, no-one will be able to beat that, not with the amount of competition when it comes to selection, 1 player might only play 1 maybe 2 RWC going forward with x amount of starts let alone tries...

if someone breaks the 15 try record in LESS amount of games Lomu played, id be fcking impressed... but Banana? plsssss...

Please share with us your own accomplishments?

 

[nickdnz]

It seems that anyone of a certain age who was lucky enough to see Danie Gerber play consistently chooses him as the finest Bok to have ever worn the jersey, amateur or otherwise. Just a shame he was playing the game at a time when he wasn't shared with the rest of the world!

Personally, I wouldn't count Habana as their greatest modern winger, let alone greatest ever player.

What...? Who then?

 

[WaterboySA]

Greatest modern winger - Habana by a long shot
Greatest winger of all time - Carel du Plessis

 

[nickdnz]

Greatest modern winger - Habana by a long shot
Greatest winger of all time - Carel du Plessis

Ehhh,

I find it difficult to make any comparison between players who played all their rugby in the amateur era - over the professional era. Without meaning to criticize players legacies - most of them are not in the same class of today's athletes. It's even harder to compare when they barely played any tests in international rugby - but even a legend like John Kirwan - who played slightly more recently, I don't think would excel particularly in the modern game.

 

[WaterboySA]

Lol, SA wingers........

Comes from your previous post.....

Just my own opinion, Carel was magic.

 

[nickdnz]

Lol, SA wingers........

Comes from your previous post.....

Sorry, what confused you?

I mentioned Kirwan as a winger who was on the periphery of professionalism - I was implying that I don't think Carel du Plessis (a winger who was playing slightly before Kirwan's era - or further away from professionalism if you will) is in my view really comparable to Bryan Habana, a full-time professional athlete who plays against top opposition. So an objective comparison between who is a better all-time winger is difficult and I don't think Carel du Plessis would excel in today's standards.

My previous post was who would be a better modern day South African winger - which I agree with you Habana wins by a long shot.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Sorry, what confused you?

I mentioned Kirwan as a winger who was on the periphery of professionalism - I was implying that I don't think Carel du Plessis (a winger who was playing slightly before Kirwan's era - or further away from professionalism if you will) is in my view really comparable to Bryan Habana, a full-time professional athlete who plays against top opposition. So an objective comparison between who is a better all-time winger is difficult and I don't think Carel du Plessis would excel in today's standards.

My previous post was who would be a better modern day South African winger - which I agree with you Habana wins by a long shot.

Yeah.

I have to say, I didn't see much of the amateur wingers of old. And my views are based on what I've seen.

As for modern day Wingers, there aren't many who would rank high up with Habana, but off the top of my head they would be:
Shane Williams
Joe Rocokoko
Doug Howlett
Julien Savea
Ben Cohen
Digby Ioane

to name a few...

 

[HowieLO6]

Please share with us your own accomplishments?

Just because he hasn't played international rugby does not mean he can't be critical of Habana's career and perception of achievements. How do you think being a critic works?

Just because one hasn't matched the standards of what is being critiqued, doesn't mean he's not entitled to a very reasonable opinion.

 

[nickdnz]

Yeah.

I have to say, I didn't see much of the amateur wingers of old. And my views are based on what I've seen.

As for modern day Wingers, there aren't many who would rank high up with Habana, but off the top of my head they would be:
Shane Williams
Joe Rocokoko
Doug Howlett
Julien Savea
Ben Cohen
Digby Ioane

to name a few...

May be pretty NZ bias (but I have no problem saying I believe we tend to produce the world's best wingers) -

Jonah Lomu, Jeff Wilson, Rupeni Caucaunibuca and Sitiveni Sivivatu would probably be there for me - I don't know if I'd put Ioane in his league, or probably (as much as I like him) Cohen.

Just because he hasn't played international rugby does not mean he can't be critical of Habana's career and perception of achievements. How do you think being a critic works?

Just because one hasn't matched the standards of what is being critiqued, doesn't mean he's not entitled to a very reasonable opinion.

If you put it in context with all of Iceman's posts - I think anyone would forgive the TRF_stormer2010's position.

But please share with me who is South Africa's better modern winger.

 

[TRF_heineken]

May be pretty NZ bias (but I have no problem saying I believe we tend to produce the world's best wingers) -

Jonah Lomu, Jeff Wilson, Rupeni Caucaunibuca and Sitiveni Sivivatu would probably be there for me - I don't know if I'd put Ioane in his league, or probably (as much as I like him) Cohen.

It's a pretty bias approach, and topic.

I would add all of those guys you mentioned, if we didn't use a framework of what a classy wing is and his attributes are. I think Nemani Nadolo, Alesana Tuilagi, Christoff Dominici, Breyton Paulse, Adam Ashley-Cooper, Corey Jane, and Takudza Ngwenya should also be on the list. But once again, it's just my opinion.

 

[HowieLO6]

What...? Who then?

Personally, I prefer both Paulse and Rossouw. Found the former to be more of a livewire, albeit on some relatively-poor South African teams, and I loved the physicality of the latter.

Habana's longevity has served him well, but I'd take the other two over him.

 

[TheOvalBall]

Personally, I prefer both Paulse and Rossouw. Found the former to be more of a livewire, albeit on some relatively-poor South African teams, and I loved the physicality of the latter.

Habana's longevity has served him well, but I'd take the other two over him.

Pieter Rossouw was amazing, especially in the Nick Mallett era. Loved him!

 

[HowieLO6]

Pieter Rossouw was amazing, especially in the Nick Mallett era. Loved him!

Always full of fight, even when on the back foot. Surprisingly graceful and ran some beautiful lines. Didn't have the kind of length of career of BH, but I'd take him at his pomp.

 

[WaterboySA]

Sorry, what confused you?

I mentioned Kirwan as a winger who was on the periphery of professionalism - I was implying that I don't think Carel du Plessis (a winger who was playing slightly before Kirwan's era - or further away from professionalism if you will) is in my view really comparable to Bryan Habana, a full-time professional athlete who plays against top opposition. So an objective comparison between who is a better all-time winger is difficult and I don't think Carel du Plessis would excel in today's standards.

My previous post was who would be a better modern day South African winger - which I agree with you Habana wins by a long shot.

My mistake. Read your post 100miles per hour and missed the context. So I confused myself.

Heineken, I'm sure you will find something on Youtube showing Carel Du Plessis run. Do yourself the favour.

 

[nickdnz]

Personally, I prefer both Paulse and Rossouw. Found the former to be more of a livewire, albeit on some relatively-poor South African teams, and I loved the physicality of the latter.

Habana's longevity has served him well, but I'd take the other two over him.

Well let's assume longevity has been in Habanna's side - would we assume then Paulse and Rossouw were dangerous wingers in their shorter Springbok careers?

Paulse average tries per match at international level at 0.41
Roussow average tries per match at international level is 0.48
Habana average tries per match at international level is at 0.56

So he averaged more tries per game, over a much longer career. He has won a World Cup, Super Rugby ***les, Lions Tours, Currie Cup, Top 14 and Champions Cup. He is fifth in overall Super Rugby tries scored and third in international tries scored. He won IRB Player of the Year in 2007 (as well as player of the 2007 RWC). He is now the most capped winger of all time as well.

I think you would have a very hard case arguing he isn't the greatest South African winger in professionalism, at least based on individual and team achievements.

 

[Mcfadden]

Who is this "OUR" you are talking about?? in this thread it looks like you're a New Zealander, and in another thread you use this term towards the Wales. pick a side man!

Anyways. I think there were a lot of great players who were better than Habana:

Amateur Era:
Frik Du Preez
Naas Botha
Danie Gerber

Proffessional Era:
John Smit
Os Du Randt
Percy Montgomery
Joost van der Westhuizen
Andre Joubert
Ruben Kruger

But this is just my opinion. Habana is great, but to call him the greatest is a bit of stretch.

Frik Du Preez won the award for Springbok of the Century, and this is just the beginning of the next century, so Habana's odds of winning that looks rather dim...

@TRF_heineken What are you talking about? I've supported New Zealand for a long time - I primarily post in NZ threads. Can't remember using the term 'our' when referring to Wales.

 

[Kiwi_]

Personally, I prefer both Paulse and Rossouw. Found the former to be more of a livewire, albeit on some relatively-poor South African teams, and I loved the physicality of the latter.

Habana's longevity has served him well, but I'd take the other two over him.

Hipster Rugby supporter spotted.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Just because he hasn't played international rugby does not mean he can't be critical of Habana's career and perception of achievements. How do you think being a critic works?

Just because one hasn't matched the standards of what is being critiqued, doesn't mean he's not entitled to a very reasonable opinion.

If it were that, then sure.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Yeah.

I have to say, I didn't see much of the amateur wingers of old. And my views are based on what I've seen.

As for modern day Wingers, there aren't many who would rank high up with Habana, but off the top of my head they would be:
Shane Williams
Joe Rocokoko
Doug Howlett
Julien Savea
Ben Cohen
Digby Ioane

to name a few...

In terms of rugby playing ability all these guys, North, Bowe, Hickie, Robinson, Lewsey, Corleto etc... were better for periods of their careers but few, if any, can match him when it comes to longevity and consistency. This is a testament to him as wing isn't a position associated with longevity or consistency at all, if the guy was a second row he'd be lauded as one of the greats. I wouldn't put him in a world XV but if I was given a choice to have a winger play for my team from the start of their career it'd be hard to look past Habana.