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Cardiff Blues v Leicester

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stormmaster1

Guest
I don't think it will be an issue again for a long, long time. 1 previous penalty shoot out in top flight rugby, and that was 25 years ago.
 
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monkeypigeon

Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (stormmaster1 @ May 5 2009, 10:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
I don't think it will be an issue again for a long, long time. 1 previous penalty shoot out in top flight rugby, and that was 25 years ago.[/b]

I swear to god...two busses at one time thing.

Today. AIL League Final. Finishes 19-19 (I think), still scoreless after 20 minutes of Extra Time.

Except some IRFI-AIL regulation says the team that scored the first try is the winner. So Shannon win and Clontarf aren't quite sure why after a 100 minute tied game.

In need of fixing much? WTF like? New rules FTW lol.
 
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Thingimubob

Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Canadian_Rugger @ May 4 2009, 06:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
The Stanley Cup is considered the hardest trophy to win in professional sport over here as teams are forced to play 4 best of seven series to win the cup. Now imagine being in game seven of the Stanley Cup finals and having just played the best game of your life the winner is determined not by one team emerging as a victor out of pure dominance but out of the individual skill of a few select players. This would be totally unacceptable to any hockey fan and I don't know how Cardiff fans don't find this totally unacceptable[/b]

not a big fan of the shootout idea, because it is very unfair on players who don't kick (a drop goal one would be much better if you ask me), but don't think it's 'unacceptable'. It might be just because I;m used to seeing them in Football though, so I just see it as we weren't quite lucky enough. And the fact that we were 14 points down with 8 minuites to go showed that we we did very well just to get there. I wonder if this counts as actually losing a game? It wasn't won in normal or even extra time, so wonder if that means the Blues are the first team to be knocked out without losing a game... Either way I'm happy with the run we had, and this should be a lesson for the future.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Monkeypigeon @ May 9 2009, 10:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (stormmaster1 @ May 5 2009, 10:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't think it will be an issue again for a long, long time. 1 previous penalty shoot out in top flight rugby, and that was 25 years ago.[/b]

I swear to god...two busses at one time thing.

Today. AIL League Final. Finishes 19-19 (I think), still scoreless after 20 minutes of Extra Time.

Except some IRFI-AIL regulation says the team that scored the first try is the winner. So Shannon win and Clontarf aren't quite sure why after a 100 minute tied game.

In need of fixing much? WTF like? New rules FTW lol.
[/b][/quote]

Ok, that is a horribly stupid way of sorting it out... I agree, something should be sorted out for this soon. I guess it could be that because it's so rare in Rugby, they've never really had the chane to test it out.
 
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toup

Guest
My main issue with this is that where the kick involved is such an 'easy' one for a regular goalkicker (discounting the immense pressure naturally), this type of decider places a far greater strain on players for whom goalkicking is not (and arguably should never have to be) within their skill set. Assuming nobody buckles under pressure, this type of contest will be decided by the non-goalkickers 5 or 6 players down the line.

In football, all players have the reponsibility of kicking the ball accurately... whether to pass, cross or shoot, they all have to know how to control the ball with their feet. The same is not true for rugby. Whilst there is a certain impressiveness seeing a second row knock over a drop goal unexpectedly, or a number 8 catching a ball in his own 22 and delivering a lengthy touch-finder, the majority of players on the pitch will rarely, if ever kick a ball, particularly a place kick.

In my opinion, great players should not be expected to humiliate themselves by performing tasks outside their ordinary role, particularly with so much at stake. Whilst I'm sure that no true fans will begrudge their heroes (especially non-kicking ones) for a miss, it is still unfair to expect these players to do so. A flanker who has tirelessly worked all afternoon to secure ball and slow the opposition attack could then almost singlehandedly lose a game for his team by missing a kick he could never have anticipated taking. Yes these players are paid to play under immense pressure, but let's not make them perform like seals in a circus.

I don't know what the answer is - arm wrestles versus opposite numbers? One on one scrummages for the forwards? Sprint Relays for the backs? Passing accuracy competition for the scrum halves? If we are going to settle games on a sideshow of this nature, then let's at least make it a level playing field.
 
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Bullitt

Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (toup @ May 12 2009, 12:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
My main issue with this is that where the kick involved is such an 'easy' one for a regular goalkicker (discounting the immense pressure naturally), this type of decider places a far greater strain on players for whom goalkicking is not (and arguably should never have to be) within their skill set. Assuming nobody buckles under pressure, this type of contest will be decided by the non-goalkickers 5 or 6 players down the line.

In football, all players have the reponsibility of kicking the ball accurately... whether to pass, cross or shoot, they all have to know how to control the ball with their feet. The same is not true for rugby. Whilst there is a certain impressiveness seeing a second row knock over a drop goal unexpectedly, or a number 8 catching a ball in his own 22 and delivering a lengthy touch-finder, the majority of players on the pitch will rarely, if ever kick a ball, particularly a place kick.

In my opinion, great players should not be expected to humiliate themselves by performing tasks outside their ordinary role, particularly with so much at stake. Whilst I'm sure that no true fans will begrudge their heroes (especially non-kicking ones) for a miss, it is still unfair to expect these players to do so. A flanker who has tirelessly worked all afternoon to secure ball and slow the opposition attack could then almost singlehandedly lose a game for his team by missing a kick he could never have anticipated taking. Yes these players are paid to play under immense pressure, but let's not make them perform like seals in a circus.

I don't know what the answer is - arm wrestles versus opposite numbers? One on one scrummages for the forwards? Sprint Relays for the backs? Passing accuracy competition for the scrum halves? If we are going to settle games on a sideshow of this nature, then let's at least make it a level playing field.[/b]


"Okay lads, you've played for 100minutes of rugby, you're battered, bruised, injured and have run out of subs - There's no way you can physically run around any more. Tell you what, 25 yards out, centre of the posts, you all get one kick each - Pick your best first, it'll be best of 5. After that if all is STILL even, it's sudden death."

What's not even?
 
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toup

Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ May 12 2009, 01:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (toup @ May 12 2009, 12:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My main issue with this is that where the kick involved is such an 'easy' one for a regular goalkicker (discounting the immense pressure naturally), this type of decider places a far greater strain on players for whom goalkicking is not (and arguably should never have to be) within their skill set. Assuming nobody buckles under pressure, this type of contest will be decided by the non-goalkickers 5 or 6 players down the line.

In football, all players have the reponsibility of kicking the ball accurately... whether to pass, cross or shoot, they all have to know how to control the ball with their feet. The same is not true for rugby. Whilst there is a certain impressiveness seeing a second row knock over a drop goal unexpectedly, or a number 8 catching a ball in his own 22 and delivering a lengthy touch-finder, the majority of players on the pitch will rarely, if ever kick a ball, particularly a place kick.

In my opinion, great players should not be expected to humiliate themselves by performing tasks outside their ordinary role, particularly with so much at stake. Whilst I'm sure that no true fans will begrudge their heroes (especially non-kicking ones) for a miss, it is still unfair to expect these players to do so. A flanker who has tirelessly worked all afternoon to secure ball and slow the opposition attack could then almost singlehandedly lose a game for his team by missing a kick he could never have anticipated taking. Yes these players are paid to play under immense pressure, but let's not make them perform like seals in a circus.

I don't know what the answer is - arm wrestles versus opposite numbers? One on one scrummages for the forwards? Sprint Relays for the backs? Passing accuracy competition for the scrum halves? If we are going to settle games on a sideshow of this nature, then let's at least make it a level playing field.[/b]


"Okay lads, you've played for 100minutes of rugby, you're battered, bruised, injured and have run out of subs - There's no way you can physically run around any more. Tell you what, 25 yards out, centre of the posts, you all get one kick each - Pick your best first, it'll be best of 5. After that if all is STILL even, it's sudden death."

What's not even?
[/b][/quote]

Teams who have more than a couple of trained goalkickers, teams who have lost goalkickers to injury, teams who are fortunate enough to have a number 8 who played fly half at youth level and can kick... there are just so many elements to a game of rugby and I feel that putting it down to one skill which is not an essential for all players is both pointless and unfair. It becomes little more than a game of chance but with an unfair disasdvantage on players who have not kicked regularly.

Your point about not playing further is one I completely agree with, but if we are going to turn the thing into effectively a lottery, why not a simple coin toss? I've had a tournament settled like this before (after all the tries scored totals etc) and although we lost, there was something dignified about it - no feeling that any one player had let us down or that we were in any way inferior. Now granted this is somewhat arbitrary, particularly with sums of money involved, but I think it's just as valid in terms of the whole thing being reduced to chance - whether a number 8, kicking further down the list, gets a kick or not is not based on a skill which he has had a chance to practice.

I think the somewhat muted response of the Leicester players shows how they felt - a win like this is lacking in satisfaction for the winners, and is far from dignified for the losers.
 
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monkeypigeon

Guest
I see what he means. Like telling the backs all to make a scrum with the number 8 satying as a number 8 and have a scrummaging competition to see who wins.

Problem is finding another practical way of finding a winner...a who has the hottest girlfriends/boyfriends competition? They can get Simon Cowell to judge it!
 
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