Charlie Hebdo Attack

[Draggs]

I found this blog by Peter Hitchens very interesting: Link

Mr Farage had (quite reasonably) pointed out that the presence of Islamist fanatics in our midst might have something to do with, a) uncontrolled mass migration from the Muslim world, and b) decades of multicultural refusal to integrate them into our laws and customs.

Also:

We were told on Friday that ‘politicians from all sides’ had lined up to attack Ukip’s Nigel Farage for supposedly ‘exploiting’ the Paris massacre.

Yet the Prime Minister and Home Secretary are quite happy to push their agenda on the back of this atrocity.

 

[Tony Manx]

I found this blog by Peter Hitchens very interesting: Link



Also:


Yet the Prime Minister and Home Secretary are quite happy to push their agenda on the back of this atrocity.

But that is what politicians in the desperate lunge for power do!! Instead of seeking answers or solutions, they seek a lever to appeal to voters!

 

[Draggs]

But that is what politicians in the desperate lunge for power do!! Instead of seeking answers or solutions, they seek a lever to appeal to voters!

It's coming from all sides. The latest polls show that its pretty much dead even between Conservatives and Labour, with UKIP third. Clegg is trying to find his voice now, but being tied to Cameron for five years has alienated much of LibDems support; will take time to rebuild. Milliband is a joke, Labour should be far ahead considering how unpopular this government is (granted, the Labour regime before was far worse).

 

[Tony Manx]

It's coming from all sides. The latest polls show that its pretty much dead even between Conservatives and Labour, with UKIP third. Clegg is trying to find his voice now, but being tied to Cameron for five years has alienated much of LibDems support; will take time to rebuild. Milliband is a joke, Labour should be far ahead considering how unpopular this government is (granted, the Labour regime before was far worse).

My friend, I ain't getting into UK politics!! I might get banned!!

Mine is a general point common to many countries!!

 

[McTallshort]

I found this blog by Peter Hitchens very interesting: Link



Also:


Yet the Prime Minister and Home Secretary are quite happy to push their agenda on the back of this atrocity.

Its hard to argue with that, multicultualism has caused more problems than it ever solved but in France (the one currently being attacked) there was no multicultualism with berkers being banned and all sorts so the answer isnt there either.

 

[Draggs]

I think the first issue is that we have resorted to labeling it something: multiculturalism. It makes it seem like a political agenda, rather than a cultural process. I don't think people should have to just give up their culture and blend in, nobody except BNP wants that. What I do want is people who move to actually want to be a part of the country.

After the interest generated in the Scotland 2014 thread, we might need one for General Election 2015!

 

[Tony Manx]

What I do want is people who move to actually want to be a part of !

Hear, hear!!! I did not expect to live in France and live like an Engerlander! I went there to accept and enjoy what the French were about it and loved it!

Circumstances dictated that was not for life but when I go back I accept and love the French way of life!

On that basis, I would like people moving to other countries to do the same wherever it is and accept the traditions and customs of their hosts and not live like they would at home!

This is not a religious rant as would not expect to change that but a cultural change!

 

[McTallshort]

I think the first issue is that we have resorted to labeling it something: multiculturalism. It makes it seem like a political agenda, rather than a cultural process. I don't think people should have to just give up their culture and blend in, nobody except BNP wants that. What I do want is people who move to actually want to be a part of the country.

After the interest generated in the Scotland 2014 thread, we might need one for General Election 2015!

This has been a gradual process over a number of years with guilt ridden liberals pushing an aganda no one else got a choice in. Powell's rivers of blood speech was the single biggest event that drove this, well meaning, well educated middle class people were determined that everyone was to except mass immigration (even though they were the least effected by it) and if you didnt then you were a racist, ignorant bigot. When people started questioning their kids nursery for banning Baa Baa black sheep they too were shouted down. If you questioned Labours previous immigration policy something they themselves have admitted they got wrong you would be shouted down as a racist and the unions, terrifed of being put in the same bracket as the BNP rolled over and pretended nothing was happening while thousands of immigrants poured into Britain undercutting the lowest wages and all the time this was happening people were being told this is offensive you cannot say that, if someone makes a comment like that then you are being offended and in the end you have entrenched cultures learning nothing from each other and free press banging on a right to offend but are themselves to terrifed to offend anyone.

 

[j'nuh]

It's coming from all sides. The latest polls show that its pretty much dead even between Conservatives and Labour, with UKIP third. Clegg is trying to find his voice now, but being tied to Cameron for five years has alienated much of LibDems support; will take time to rebuild. Milliband is a joke, Labour should be far ahead considering how unpopular this government is (granted, the Labour regime before was far worse).

Oh God no.

The Tories' ideological war on the poorest in society, coupled with their flagrant abuse of statistics (constantly being rebuked by the Statistical Authority) to mislead people, make them utterly slimy.

 

[McTallshort]

Oh God no.

The Tories' ideological war on the poorest in society, coupled with their flagrant abuse of statistics (constantly being rebuked by the Statistical Authority) to mislead people, make them utterly slimy.

Cheeks on the same arse

 

[Tony Manx]

Cheeks on the same arse

Absolutely and refer to my previous point that ALL politicians jump on the first available bandwagon!

 

[LittleGuy]

I think the first issue is that we have resorted to labeling it something: multiculturalism. It makes it seem like a political agenda, rather than a cultural process. I don't think people should have to just give up their culture and blend in, nobody except BNP wants that. What I do want is people who move to actually want to be a part of the country.

After the interest generated in the Scotland 2014 thread, we might need one for General Election 2015!

I will be generous once again to our UK voters and allow them to go to bed early by giving them the correctly predicted result with the absolute bare minimum of results in.

In all seriousness as an occasional observer of UK politics it does seem like 2015 will be a pox on all their houses election. Not unlike where the 2015 Canadian election is looking like heading at the moment.

But on the original topic relating to Hebdo and the after effects, I found this to be a fascinating exchange on dissent magazine,( as I was looking for different persepctives on this issue in particular some voices from the left since I'm not on that side of the spectrum I can fall prey to selection bias) I highly recommened no matter your affiliations.

http://www.dissentmagazine.org/article/islamism-and-the-left

 

[goodNumber10]

this thread has veered violently off topic...

 

[Draggs]

Oh God no.

The Tories' ideological war on the poorest in society, coupled with their flagrant abuse of statistics (constantly being rebuked by the Statistical Authority) to mislead people, make them utterly slimy.

What of Labour's actual war for god knows what in Iraq and Afghanistan, coupled with their flagrant lies on the threat of terror/chemical weapons (in front of Parliament and the British people).

Yes, I agree GN10, and I hold my hands up. I would very much like to have a political discussion thread, but they always end up with bickering. If I can prepare myself to keep it in line, I might give it a go. The Scotland thread did a good job keeping relevant once it got going.

 

[William18]

Reza Aslan gives it to CNN straight.

Wasn't sure this should get it's own thread but it's really interesting discussion on Islam and the worlds perceptions.

[video=youtube_share;PzusSqcotDw]http://youtu.be/PzusSqcotDw[/video]

Reza Aslan is completely wrong for me. There is no way suicide bombing exists outside of religion. No one is going to blow themselves up if they don't think they are going to heaven because of it. There is also clearly no way the Islamic world would get so upset about unfavourable depictions of Muhammad if they were all atheists and didn't believe that Muhammad received the word of God in a cave. I think we need to have an honest debate about the role that religion is having in the recent episodes of extremism. Aslan's role is generally to shut down that debate. Just like we should all acknowledge that western countries would not have persecuted gay people or criminalised abortion - two acts which have had horrible effects on citizens of the West - were we not Christian countries.

Majiid Nawaz is a very intelligent Muslim who is willing to speak openly about the ill effects of Islamism. Britain would be well served should he be elected later this year.

 

[dasNdanger]

Reza Aslan is completely wrong for me. There is no way suicide bombing exists outside of religion. No one is going to blow themselves up if they don't think they are going to heaven because of it. There is also clearly no way the Islamic world would get so upset about unfavourable depictions of Muhammad if they were all atheists and didn't believe that Muhammad received the word of God in a cave. I think we need to have an honest debate about the role that religion is having in the recent episodes of extremism. Aslan's role is generally to shut down that debate. Just like we should all acknowledge that western countries would not have persecuted gay people or criminalised abortion - two acts which have had horrible effects on citizens of the West - were we not Christian countries.

Majiid Nawaz is a very intelligent Muslim who is willing to speak openly about the ill effects of Islamism. Britain would be well served should he be elected later this year.

Much truth in what you say. While many - most - Muslims don't condone the violence, the religion as a whole has turned a blind eye to it - or even winked at it. Until all voices in Islam take decisive action against the extremists, the violence will continue. It's not unlike the way the Catholic Church turned a blind eye to the sexual abuse carried out by priests. They kept sweeping the situation under the rug until their own members had enough and started pulling up that rug, forcing the Church to make changes. The same has to happen in the Islamic world because as long as they keep tolerating extremism the violence will continue.


das

 

[McTallshort]

Much truth in what you say. While many - most - Muslims don't condone the violence, the religion as a whole has turned a blind eye to it - or even winked at it. Until all voices in Islam take decisive action against the extremists, the violence will continue. It's not unlike the way the Catholic Church turned a blind eye to the sexual abuse carried out by priests. They kept sweeping the situation under the rug until their own members had enough and started pulling up that rug, forcing the Church to make changes. The same has to happen in the Islamic world because as long as they keep tolerating extremism the violence will continue.


das

Hold on. Islam isnt violent people are violent some of whom are Muslims. Dont forget it was the Christian religion that plunged the world into 2 world wars are we saying that Christanity is a violent religion with Genocidal tendencies? Or do we look at things a bit deeper and understand what started the wars and the people involved.

Reza Aslan talks lots of sense to me and judging the reaction of the news readers, Americans dont like being told they have it wrong.

 

[Draggs]

Hold on. Islam isnt violent people are violent some of whom are Muslims. Dont forget it was the Christian religion that plunged the world into 2 world wars are we saying that Christanity is a violent religion with Genocidal tendencies? Or do we look at things a bit deeper and understand what started the wars and the people involved.

Reza Aslan talks lots of sense to me and judging the reaction of the news readers, Americans dont like being told they have it wrong.

The world wars were not fought because of Christianity. Most people in them were Christians, but it was not because of their religion.

 

[McTallshort]

The world wars were not fought because of Christianity. Most people in them were Christians, but it was not because of their religion.

The Crusades were.

 

[LittleGuy]

The Crusades were.

Which ended centuries ago.