Cheetahs & Kings thread

Discussion in 'Guinness Pro14' started by TRF_stormer2010, Aug 8, 2017.

  1. Bruce_ma_goose

    Bruce_ma_goose Senior Member

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    No Rhule, Mohoje, Cassiem or Venter for the Cheetah's opening tour. I hope they can keep things respectable.

    Kendricks failed his medical for the Kings.

    Zebre might get off to a flyer this year as the first to tour SA.
     
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  3. TRF_stormer2010

    TRF_stormer2010 Super Moderator

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    Kings touring squad;

    Forwards


    Tango Balekile
    Stephan Coetzee
    Rossouw de Klerk
    Bobby de Wee
    Martin Dreyer
    Schalk Ferreira
    Khaya Majola
    Siyabulela Mdaka
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    Victor Sekekete
    Entienne Swanepoel
    Dries van Schalkwyk
    Jurie van Vuuren
    Michael Willemse (captain)

    Backs

    Masixole Banda
    Kurt Coleman
    Ntabeni Dukisa
    Rowan Gouws
    Berton Klaasen
    Godlen Masimla
    Jacques Nel
    Yaw Penxe
    Sibusiso Sithole
    Rudi van Rooyen
    Luzuko Vulindlu
    Oliver Zono
     
  4. TRF_stormer2010

    TRF_stormer2010 Super Moderator

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    Cheetahs’ 28-man squad: Charles Marais, Ox Nche, Joseph Dweba, Jacques du Toit, Torsten van Jaarsveld, Erich de Jager, Aranos Coetzee, Tom Botha, Justin Basson, Armandt Koster, Reniel Hugo, Rynier Bernardo, Paul Schoeman, Henco Venter, Gerhard Olivier, Niell Jordaan, Shaun Venter, Tian Meyer, Zee Mkhabela, Cecil Afrika, Robbie Petzer, Makazole Mapimpi, Ali Mgijima, William Small-Smith, Rayno Benjamin, Rosko Specman, Sergeal Petersen, Clayton Blommetjies
     
  5. TRF_heineken

    TRF_heineken RIP #J9

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    I don't know what to make those 2 squads.

    Both of them have very exciting backs, but they seem a bit inexperienced in the forwards.
     
  6. TRF_stormer2010

    TRF_stormer2010 Super Moderator

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    Cheetahs can't help the injuries and Bok selections though. Their biggest issue remains injuries at 10. Despite that they remain unbeaten in the Curry Cup even if it took magic by Africa and Petersen in the dying minutes to beat the Lions on the weekend.

    Yeah, forwards and halves are a bit "no-name". I still think the Cheetahs will be pushing for inside a 6th place finish. Kings I have no idea what to expect from them.
     
  7. TRF_heineken

    TRF_heineken RIP #J9

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    But the Cheetahs doesn't even know if Mohoje will be on their books after October. Actually, I can see some changes happening in October when the "transfer window" in SA Rugby is open...

    I have to give kudo's to Mr. Davids at the Kings, he sure has a knack of getting the best out of his players, no matter how unknown they are.
     
  8. TRF_stormer2010

    TRF_stormer2010 Super Moderator

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    I've been really impressed by specifically the Pumas. I expect to see a few of their players in the Kings and Cheetahs even if only on loan as the Pumas have done regularly.

    That is true. Hope he can replicate his efforts of 2017 SR.

    Also I see Francois Venter has been released by the Bokke. I wonder if its too late to ship him off to Ireland. His presence in the midfield would go a long way to shore up that Cheetahs line-up.
     
  9. Amiga500

    Amiga500 Senior Member

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    Respectable?

    I'm just hoping they don't embarass us too much. They couldn't get an easier opener than us lot.

    #SoftTouch
     
  10. Bruce_ma_goose

    Bruce_ma_goose Senior Member

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    Well, "respectable" at Kingspan this year may be a winning bonus point for the visitors. :(
     
  11. TRF_stormer2010

    TRF_stormer2010 Super Moderator

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    Yeah its a mixed bag for the SA duo in the Pro14. The Kings are a patchwork side. Was never gonna be easy having to get a new squad together but everything considered I think they look.. decent. The question will be whether Davids can work his magic again to from a cohesive unit in a few weeks and whether a few of those players can step up given the opportunity.

    Cheetahs are a lucky packet. They've gone the route of getting in players that are all out attack. If somehow they can get it right to not drop off tackles and give away easy meters they could prove a handful but its still an ope question which way they'll fall. I think against weaker opposition and at home they'll be running riot. Just look at their home fixture against the Sunwolves this year. Better teams than them couldn't put the 90 on the 'Wolves the Cheetahs did. If they get ahead they can easily inflate a score but teams capable of holding possession and keeping it tidy will beat the Cheetahs relatively easily unless the Cheetahs can add more dimension to their game.
     
  12. TRF_stormer2010

    TRF_stormer2010 Super Moderator

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    I wonder whether the Cheetahs will change tac or at least bring in more variance to their player line up and game. They went with an all out attacking line-up vs Ulster and despite actually having set piece dominance came up short. Mainly IMO due to not being able to compete with Ulster at the ruck as it was handled and the trade mark leaky defense.

    I say they need to get in Francois Venter who has been released by the Bokke to see if that doesn't help shore up the midfield at least and also bring in Ryno Eksteen while they are waiting on Zeilinga and Marais to recoup. Eksteen has done well deputizing and I have to admit I was a little surprised to see Blommetjies stand in at 10 with Africa on the bench to cover. I had assumed the selectors knew something I didn't but I do believe a more.. traditional 10 would go a long way to steady the Cheetahs' game. Small Smith did okay taking the goal kicks but I just got the idea the Cheetahs lacked direction and little wonder as neither Small Smith nor Blommetjies were playing in their comfort zone. Nor for that matter Petersen. I'd have liked to see more SA 7s style chip kicks to put the opp on the back foot and bring our speedsters into the game as well as there were any number of times Ulster were just too flat on defense and we forced the play out wide or got held up with little to no go-forward but space in behind. Blommetjies can't be expected to do any more than what you could expect from a school kid playing his first game out of position. It takes a 'mind shift'.

    They also went wide on first phase without much being on and got turned over more often than not for their efforts. Where are the big men taking it up? Nche is made for that though you do really want 2 or three carriers who are garuanteed to make hard yards. Venter in the mid field would help here as well but we need it in the forwards, preferably the back row as they would be the best positioned. They also need to attack the ruck as a unit as they don't have an out-and-out fetcher on the books that I know of. They were murdered at the ruck. You could blame the ref for maybe even half of their woes there but that'd not help them in the next match where they can expect similar treatment of the ruck I expect. I'd hope we'd be more pro-active in this critical regard.

    Anyway I am just rambling now. I thorougly expect the Cheetahs to be much more competitive at home and with a few key players returning but one doesn't want to build a reputation or habit of getting hammered overseas. That kind of thing is difficult to break and IMO referees come to the game with preconceptions that influence the 50/50s and you want to be on the beneficiary side of those preconceived notions rather than having to battle them/ prove them wrong. It also plays on how you yourself and the opposition approach the game. If they believe they are going to hammer you and you believe they are going to hammer you and you concede first points then thats many a game lost right there and then in my admittedly limited experience.
     
  13. Bruce_ma_goose

    Bruce_ma_goose Senior Member

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    I was surprised to read an article with optimism about the Kings for this season (Davids himself says he considers he is in a tougher position than pre-2016, because at least then he had a pre-season). The only silver lining for them was that the Scarlets apparently had 12 of their 15 starters in their squad for the match. I've no idea why they fielded such a strong side when pretty much everyone else eases their international players back in after a few weeks.

    If I had a magic wand, I'd ask the defensive coach of the Sharks (the only SA side with a convincing defence in my opinion) to come and act as a defensive consultant for the Cheetahs after the Currie Cup. Whoever is coaching defence at the Cheetahs over the past couple of years has been failing. Add in a bunch of 7s players unaccustomed to defensive systems in XVs and you have a real challenge, even for a top flight coach.
     
  14. Bruce_ma_goose

    Bruce_ma_goose Senior Member

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    Zebre almost got a losing BP at the Ospreys so if they maintain that form I think they will keep things respectable as the first visitors to SA. That is a humungous "if" though.

    Interesting initiative by the Cheetahs on tickets with the free admission, a nice gesture.

    I need to cut them some slack if they don't even have their proper coach at this time. I think they will find their feet once:

    - they are more accustomed to expectations at the breakdown
    - they have a starting fly half
    - they have their coach
    - their internationals come back
    - they aren't playing clear top 6 sides

    With the surprising weakness of the Blues in the opening round a fight around 3rd-6th in conference A seems a possibility if things develop to the top end of expectations in the next two months.
     
  15. TRF_stormer2010

    TRF_stormer2010 Super Moderator

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    Yeah, the Cheetahs are in a tough spot;

    - A stand-in coach as the Bokke swooped in to take Smith as backline coach without much warning.
    - A record number of Bok call-ups (for them). Usually the Cheetahs have 2 Bok call ups at most. Losing two in the backrow specifically probably caugh them off guard there.
    - Captaincy / leadership issues. I don't actually know who is captaining the side ATM as their usual captain was injured and is being slowly brought back while their two usual stand in captains are both with the Bokke.
    - Fly half issues. They have two. Both injured.
     
  16. Sixways Cheryl

    Sixways Cheryl Senior Member

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    Now that we're 2 weeks in, what has the reaction in South Africa been like to Cheetahs & Kings in the Pro 14? Is there much interest at all?

    Seems quite unfortunate for both South African sides to have started their seasons away in Europe when they need to be generating publicity for this venture at home.
     
  17. TRF_heineken

    TRF_heineken RIP #J9

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    Oh I'm sure there are plenty of people watching. Especially because of the time the matches are being played there's not much else on tv for us guys to watch.

    For me it's interesting to see the difference in approaches between Super Rugby and Pro14 and that both the Kings and Cheetahs will basically need to make a big change in their gameplan. With that said, they played against the more tougher opposition they will face in this tournament, and I'm hopeful that they will get a few more W's in the North.
     
  18. The Alpha Bro

    The Alpha Bro Fat Boi

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    They were both given a horrible start. Kings with the last two champions and Cheetahs get three of the four most consistently strong sides. I expect them to build momentum against the Italians and weaker Welsh sides. Getting two weeks off while we play in Europe in a months time should be huge for them too.
     
  19. Groundhog

    Groundhog #1 Cuck

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    Still maintain the saffa sides will be mid table it shouldn't all be doom and gloom. Like Alpha said touring Ireland is as tough a start as it comes and Scarlets are reigning camps. If they can establish themselves as difficult to beat at home and pick off wins against the Italians and other weak sides they can have a respectable first season.
     
  20. SomeOke

    SomeOke Senior Member

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    I'm loving it, and have watched all four games thus far.
    That said they really need to show some improvement, I'll watch no matter what but the average Joe will get tired of us getting rogered every week.

    It's all well and good everyone being welcoming and enjoying the Saffers in the comp, but if we become just more wooden spooners it really doesn't justify us joining the league.

    Cheetahs are a decent side they really played below par this Saturday, the errors and decision making were just woeful. They were winning the Currie Cup before they went to Europe with more or less the same team. Now the Currie cup is undoubtedly a tier 2 competition but still.
    As for the Kings they look OK, but the real worry is how badly the scrum went. You can't win games if every knock-on, maul reset, and dot down results in a penalty.
     
  21. Big_Grumper

    Big_Grumper Senior Member

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    I read somewhere that Cheetahs and Kings will have to juggle Pro14 and Currie Cup in parallel. That's going to be tough and will test their squad depth.
     
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