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CJ Stander to retire at the end of the season

RedruthRFC

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They definitely used to, cause there was uproar when Haskell told the story of how he used to go to training with Wales u18s, with no intention of playing for them, just cause he could get cash out of them for expenses, and free kit
Fair play, I'd forgotten that story.
 

living sacrifice

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For career reasons I’d imagine. I’m pretty confident that if the rule was that as soon as you payed 1 under 20 game you were capped for that country Moriarty wouldn’t have gone down that route but no one will truly know that other than him and his family but knowing who his father and uncle were I don’t reckon his life would’ve been worth living had he played for England.
The nominated ‘cap’ team for England is the Saxons (and the full team) so it didn’t cap him but he 100% represented England.

Normally I’m not one to question what nationality someone is but in reality any real Welshman would never put on an England jersey. So I fully question his welshness and wonder why ever accepted England caps if he is truly welsh.

Would you ever represent England? I know I’d never represent Wales nor France not any other country that came calling on a 35 year old ex player with a glass back.
 

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The nominated ‘cap’ team for England is the Saxons (and the full team) so it didn’t cap him but he 100% represented England.

Normally I’m not one to question what nationality someone is but in reality any real Welshman would never put on an England jersey. So I fully question his welshness and wonder why ever accepted England caps if he is truly welsh.

Would you ever represent England? I know I’d never represent Wales nor France not any other country that came calling on a 35 year old ex player with a glass back.

But it’s youth level and more importantly the rules are such where you can make a career decision as a 17-19 year old knowing that it won’t effect your main goal in terms of who you really want to represent. Again, I have no idea really, but my guess is, if you want to talk about who he dreamt of playing for as a kid, that it was the red jersey he dreamed about about putting on. After all, he was only in St Helens for a couple of years before moving back to Wales and spending his entire childhood there with his Welsh family.

I would never play for England but I would’ve happily played for them at youth level (knowing it wouldn’t **** up my dream of playing for Wales) if the opportunity arose. My thinking would be that it would get me noticed and increase my chances of playing for Wales which I wouldn’t mind betting was in his thinking too.
 

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I think you guys are oversimplifying the comparison between Beast and CJ. Beast like many Zimbabweans had to look for greener pastures due to the dictatorship of their President at the time Robert Mugabe. He was running the country into the ground and a lot of citizens had no hope of a future. Many of them to this day still flee to SA in the hope of getting employment and better living conditions.

Beast was fortunate enough to get an opportunity at a very young age to come to SA and provide for his family. I have at the moment 7 Zimbabweans in my employment doing gardening/cleaning/household jobs, and they live on minimum wage and are so grateful for the money they get, and the place they are staying. The interesting thing is, that all of them sends more than half their monthly salary back to Zimbabwe, to help their families that side survive, and just be able to buy basic groceries to eat. It's a very dire situation, and one that has evolved in the past 20 years.

If Beast didn't play for the u/18 team, he wouldn't have been invited to the Craven Week as Zimbabwe is one of the invitational sides to play in the SA tournament, where they play against the local unions provincial teams. Zimbabwe to this day are a regular team of the Craven Week, and some of the other Schools Rugby Festivals (Pre-COVID).

Many Zimbabwean kids are sent to SA schools and live in the Hostels the whole year. My alma mater has a regular intake of at least 15 Zimbabwean boys and girls on a yearly basis, and one of the rich farmers from the small border town of Musina even donated a minibus to the school, to transport these kids for the school holidays from the hostel to the border post.

What I'm trying to say here is look at the bigger picture when drawing comparisons. It would be better to draw a comparison for CJ with someone like Kevin Pietersen, BRad Barritt, Mouritz Botha, WP Nel, Richardt Strauss, Quinn Roux...
 

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To alao be clear CJ didn't come to play for Ireland. That was just an added bonus. He came to pay for Munster. Wasn't targetted by IRFU
Yet the IRFU send scouts yearly to Sa for craven week to target school kids and promise them the moon and the stars to move to Ireland
 

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Yet the IRFU send scouts yearly to Sa for craven week to target school kids and promise them the moon and the stars to move to Ireland
Again you are wrong. Shaun Payne was living in SA when he identified CJ, again to Munster not the IRFU. And if IRFU are sending scouts anywhere down there they doing it for free as their accounts would show.
I think that would be shown by fact no kids are coming here expecting moon and stars and well only concentrated scouting (if you'd call it that) is on exiles.

Like again I'm speaking on facts. Would love if you could show facts on the claim.
 

munstermuffin

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I think you guys are oversimplifying the comparison between Beast and CJ. Beast like many Zimbabweans had to look for greener pastures due to the dictatorship of their President at the time Robert Mugabe. He was running the country into the ground and a lot of citizens had no hope of a future. Many of them to this day still flee to SA in the hope of getting employment and better living conditions.

Beast was fortunate enough to get an opportunity at a very young age to come to SA and provide for his family. I have at the moment 7 Zimbabweans in my employment doing gardening/cleaning/household jobs, and they live on minimum wage and are so grateful for the money they get, and the place they are staying. The interesting thing is, that all of them sends more than half their monthly salary back to Zimbabwe, to help their families that side survive, and just be able to buy basic groceries to eat. It's a very dire situation, and one that has evolved in the past 20 years.

If Beast didn't play for the u/18 team, he wouldn't have been invited to the Craven Week as Zimbabwe is one of the invitational sides to play in the SA tournament, where they play against the local unions provincial teams. Zimbabwe to this day are a regular team of the Craven Week, and some of the other Schools Rugby Festivals (Pre-COVID).

Many Zimbabwean kids are sent to SA schools and live in the Hostels the whole year. My alma mater has a regular intake of at least 15 Zimbabwean boys and girls on a yearly basis, and one of the rich farmers from the small border town of Musina even donated a minibus to the school, to transport these kids for the school holidays from the hostel to the border post.

What I'm trying to say here is look at the bigger picture when drawing comparisons. It would be better to draw a comparison for CJ with someone like Kevin Pietersen, BRad Barritt, Mouritz Botha, WP Nel, Richardt Strauss, Quinn Roux...
This is where I would disagree. Because again politics should never come in to it.
That would be equal to saying South Africans came to Ireland in todays world to escape issues with white farmers and justify it.
 

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Have there been any kids go to Ireland as soon as they leave school because they were scouted during Craven Week?
I can't think of any: CJ Stander and Quinn roux both had some super rugby under their belts before emigrating
 

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Have there been any kids go to Ireland as soon as they leave school because they were scouted during Craven Week?
I can't think of any: CJ Stander and Quinn roux both had some super rugby under their belts before emigrating
Keynan Knox to be fair. That was a weird case of the Munster CEO, at the time going over to visit Shaun Payne or something mad like that. Not intentional scouting by any means and four years later no kids have come since so a very isolated incident.
 

big ginger 8

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Have there been any kids go to Ireland as soon as they leave school because they were scouted during Craven Week?
I can't think of any: CJ Stander and Quinn roux both had some super rugby under their belts before emigrating

In fairness Munster did sign two lads in late 2017. Only one of them, Keynan Knox, is still with them and it appears to have been wholly driven my Munster. Given there's been no one since I don't think this is a real issue.
 

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Keynan Knox to be fair. That was a weird case of the Munster CEO, at the time going over to visit Shaun Payne or something mad like that. Not intentional scouting by any means and four years later no kids have come since so a very isolated incident.
That is it though we had 2 lads. But neither were scouted per IRFU. Munster approached lads. 1 of whom their family had been to Thomond Park previously, But they weren't in School here etc. and as you can see it not exactly as if they've been rushed in.
 

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In fairness Munster did sign two lads in late 2017. Only one of them, Keynan Knox, is still with them and it appears to have been wholly driven my Munster. Given there's been no one since I don't think this is a real issue.
Yes Matt Moore a centre was the other guy but wasn't a case of Munster poaching them and in Matt Moore's case asked to be released once Stormers offered him the world back home.
 

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This is where I would disagree. Because again politics should never come in to it.
That would be equal to saying South Africans came to Ireland in todays world to escape issues with white farmers and justify it.
If politics never come into it, then South African Rugby wouldn't be in the position they are in.

Actually South African Sport in general wouldn't be in the position it is in.

If it wasn't for our politics, many Saffas wouldn't have gone to overseas. Kevin Pietersen being prime example, and he has said in many interviews he left SA because of politics and him not seeing a future for himself in SA, due to his skin colour.

Politics, whether we like it or not, has a direct link with Sport and how it's influenced. Look at how governments and politics are limiting sport being played due to COVID on an international scale.

Politics should never come in to it. But alas, it ALWAYS comes in to it. It's unavoidable.


As for the high school scouts thing. I can't say that I've read a lot about Ireland doing scouting at Craven Week. Scotland, England, France & Italy, yes...
 

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If politics never come into it, then South African Rugby wouldn't be in the position they are in.

Actually South African Sport in general wouldn't be in the position it is in.

If it wasn't for our politics, many Saffas wouldn't have gone to overseas. Kevin Pietersen being prime example, and he has said in many interviews he left SA because of politics and him not seeing a future for himself in SA, due to his skin colour.

Politics, whether we like it or not, has a direct link with Sport and how it's influenced. Look at how governments and politics are limiting sport being played due to COVID on an international scale.

Politics should never come in to it. But alas, it ALWAYS comes in to it. It's unavoidable.


As for the high school scouts thing. I can't say that I've read a lot about Ireland doing scouting at Craven Week. Scotland, England, France & Italy, yes...
Well on the top. Point accepted. I suppose it a tough line to judge.

On Craven Week. It barely known about in Ireland and I just know of it from our SA contingent here.
 

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On Craven Week. It barely known about in Ireland and I just know of it from our SA contingent here.
There are many articles supporting the fact of scouts at Craven Week, and even in New Zealand at their schoolboy tournaments. But none of those articles mentions IRFU or Irish clubs scouting.

If there are any, they do a good job of hiding/not getting noticed and fly under the radar.

I think the comment was a massive over-generalisation of what the other European Countries are doing, and Ireland was umbrella'd with them.
 

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There are many articles supporting the fact of scouts at Craven Week, and even in New Zealand at their schoolboy tournaments. But none of those articles mentions IRFU or Irish clubs scouting.

If there are any, they do a good job of hiding/not getting noticed and fly under the radar.

I think the comment was a massive over-generalisation of what the other European Countries are doing, and Ireland was umbrella'd with them.
Oh don't get me wrong I know how big it is.
Difference is in UK the clubs would actively recruit with just club interests where here in Ireland we are all under the 1 umbrella in terms of ownership.
 

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