CJ Stander to retire at the end of the season

[MikeTheNative]

They been deployed a bit differently to be fair, Faleteau has spent a lot of time out wide and Stander a lot of heavy carries into traffic. Both have played well though and both would be going on the Lions tour for me. It's then a case of how Gatland want's to use his 8.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Im biased but I'd say Faletau is the form 8 at the moment. I think I read somewhere he's carried better than Stander this year (averaged more yards per carry) and has tackled more. Not 100% on that though.

I agree he should go though, for sure.

Stats show Faletau gets through a lot more tackles but CJ is the more impactful carrier (i.e. a slightly better average metres made)
Likely due to the way the teams work than anything on the individual though - Wales' backrow do an insane amount of tackling but their 2nd rows don't do much, but it's the opposite for Ireland
Stander making more metres per carry compared to Faletau is more likely the areas he's getting the ball, because Faletau's carrying is one of his strong points

 

[Welsh Exile]

Stats show Faletau gets through a lot more tackles but CJ is the more impactful carrier (i.e. a slightly better average metres made)
Likely due to the way the teams work than anything on the individual though - Wales' backrow do an insane amount of tackling but their 2nd rows don't do much, but it's the opposite for Ireland
Stander making more metres per carry compared to Faletau is more likely the areas he's getting the ball, because Faletau's carrying is one of his strong points

Have you got those meters per carry stats as I was pretty sure Faletau averaged a half meter/meter more per carry than Stander but not 100% and happy out to be proved wrong.

Like matey boy said above could just be down to how they're being utilised as I do think Stander is a more powerful carrier than Faletau but Faletau is more likely to use his footwork to get hard yards than to smash people like Stander. Both have their merits and both would go on tour.

 

[big ginger 8]

Stats show Faletau gets through a lot more tackles but CJ is the more impactful carrier (i.e. a slightly better average metres made)
Likely due to the way the teams work than anything on the individual though - Wales' backrow do an insane amount of tackling but their 2nd rows don't do much, but it's the opposite for Ireland
Stander making more metres per carry compared to Faletau is more likely the areas he's getting the ball, because Faletau's carrying is one of his strong points

Stander runs back kicks on occasion like all 8s but other than that definitely works in tighter channels.

He also has five turnovers.

No idea which one will start but they're both nailed on tourists, Doris' injury made sure of that. Stander's versatility also a big plus for his chances.

Must admit Matt Fagerson has impressed me at times as well.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I feel a bit embarrassed about this as a source and would'nt be surprised if it's wrong as they usually have about 20 spelling mistakes per piece but this is where I saw it. Meant to come from Opta I think.

Lions' biggest selection problem as Gatland must leave out world class stars

Warren Gatland faces a brutally difficult task to settle upon his Lions back row contingent to face South Africa this summer

www.walesonline.co.uk

" Faletau is averaging 5.92 metres a carry. Billy Vunipola averages 5.70 metres a run, with CJ Stander making 4.89 metres every time he takes the ball forward and Matt Fagerson 4.29 metres.

Faletau has put in 60 tackles, Vunipola 26 and Stander 37. Playing a game fewer, Fagerson has nailed 24 opponents.

 

[MikeTheNative]

Or could play them together. A Stander, Hamish Watson and Faleteau back row would be pretty dangerous on the carrying front.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Billy Vunipola averages 5.70 metres a run, with CJ Stander making 4.89 metres

Jeeze, that's pretty muck for Stander to do worse than Billy
I saw it on some Lions analysis piece, i've not gone through the actual stats - maybe it was written pre 6N and was an average of their careers or something?

TBH I'm not overly enthused about any of the 8 options vs the Bocks - Faletau/Stander/Fagerson are all fantastic players, don't get me wrong, I just don't think they're the answer to the Springbok question
Though I guess that's all about the power of the other 7 players as well, though - get the makeup of the pack right and any of them could go well

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

They been deployed a bit differently to be fair, Faleteau has spent a lot of time out wide and Stander a lot of heavy carries into traffic. Both have played well though and both would be going on the Lions tour for me. It's then a case of how Gatland want's to use his 8.

Yeah it's been noticeable how wide Faletau has been, likewise George for Eng although LCD less so.

Call me a dinosaur but personally I prefer the bigger forwards playing tighter like Stander. I get team patterns etc, but far too often the bigger blokes out wide just clog up space that more nimble / quicker players could exploit better. And yes I know George threw a lovely forward pass to Watson in Cardiff.....

 

[MikeTheNative]

Yeah it's been noticeable how wide Faletau has been, likewise George for Eng although LCD less so.

Call me a dinosaur but personally I prefer the bigger forwards playing tighter like Stander. I get team patterns etc, but far too often the bigger blokes out wide just clog up space that more nimble / quicker players could exploit better. And yes I know George threw a lovely forward pass to Watson in Cardiff.....

Your a dinosaur lol.
In all seriousness the quality of test level defences now and the fact it's a bit harder for defences to jackal means most teams don't put anyone in the ruck (unless there's a good chance of winning the ball) and just fan out. That means there's not much space at all for the attackers to find and need to stretch the pitch as much as possible.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Or could play them together. A Stander, Hamish Watson and Faleteau back row would be pretty dangerous on the carrying front.

That would be a tasty back row to be fair and I wouldn't moan if that was the one Gats named for the first test but it's easy to forget that we had no Faletau or Navidi for our semi final against them and Moriarty, Tips and Wainswright did pretty well against the brutes. The whole pack did ok to be fair, and it wasn't the biggest. I get what you're saying though and like I say that back 3 would be pretty lethal. Very good over the ball as well.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Unquestionably I'd have Faletau as my Lions 8 - he's tough enough, experienced and a smart footballer who's in form.

Not sure on 6 but I think it might be a flanker / lock hybrid type - Beirne / Lawes / Itoje. There's a big physical battle coming our way and we just can't afford to lose it. Plus (shudders) additional line out options.

At 7 some very good players will miss out including the GOAT Justin. Watson's good, Curry's an obvious call but if he's gone OK for Bath I'd go Underhill, just for that extra physicality.

Your a dinosaur lol.
In all seriousness the quality of test level defences now and the fact it's a bit harder for defences to jackal means most teams don't put anyone in the ruck (unless there's a good chance of winning the ball) and just fan out. That means there's not much space at all for the attackers to find and need to stretch the pitch as much as possible.

Agreed but if players are all the way across the pitch they must be fairly thinly spread. You could even try something radical like a driving maul to tie opponents in.....but I guess 'earning the right to go wide' is so last millennium.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

6. Itoje 7. Underhill 8. Faletau with Stander on the bench. Now that's a good back row. Or stick Underhill at 6 and Watson at 7? But I get the feeling Gatland will want a big 6.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Watson won't make the tour IMO and it would be a massive shame if he didn't.
But I don't see Gatland picking 2 out and out 7's, players like Curry and Underhill can cover 6 and 7 if needs. Watson just isn't.

My money would be on Ritchie getting picked ahead of Watson
(Speaking as a massive Watson fan from the start)

 

[TRF_Olyy]

There's literally zero chance Curry isn't starting in a lions backrow

I know Watson comes from fine English/Mancunian stock (with a smattering Tigers academy in there) but nah

 

[Welsh Exile]

Unquestionably I'd have Faletau as my Lions 8 - he's tough enough, experienced and a smart footballer who's in form.

Not sure on 6 but I think it might be a flanker / lock hybrid type - Beirne / Lawes / Itoje. There's a big physical battle coming our way and we just can't afford to lose it. Plus (shudders) additional line out options.

At 7 some very good players will miss out including the GOAT Justin. Watson's good, Curry's an obvious call but if he's gone OK for Bath I'd go Underhill, just for that extra physicality.


Agreed but if players are all the way across the pitch they must be fairly thinly spread. You could even try something radical like a driving maul to tie opponents in.....but I guess 'earning the right to go wide' is so last millennium.

Gats blatantly has a hard on for Underhill as well. Which is why he'll go on tour with no international rugby and I agree, will probably start.

Will get no complaints from me as he's unbelievable and I've watched him since he was a kid at the Ospreys. I've always seen him as more of a 6, though, but I think you're spot on, I could see Gats going for a 2nd row at 6. Beirne has got to start for me but I wouldn't care if it was at 4,5 or 6.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I reckon it will be in no order
6. Bernie, Navidi, Ritchie,
7. Tipuric, Curry, Underhill
8. Faletau, Stander, Vunipola, Fagerson

I also reckon he could pick simmonds just to **** with Eddie.

 

[unrated]

Yeh, it was his flying backside.

Horrible memories, was such a great player. This started the road to the end for Lambie. He was bound to be a starting flyhalf for the Springboks for many years still as we invested a lot in his youth development,

I have no hard feelings towards CJ for his move, he did what he needed to do. The Irish can be proud of him and claim him as a product of their system, they made him into international, Munster development teams can take lots of credit.

If he wants to play for one of our teams in the future and he is good enough to make the team then why not? But i can't see it happening.

I can't really blame him for the Lambie tackle, obviously, he did not mean it, It rugby after all and these things happen. But man it's sad that that mistake by Stander ended our golden boy.

In my opinion, there will be no harsh sentiments towards him back in South Africa, if someone recognizes him he will be received warmly.


It's fair to say Stander is regarded to a higher degree than Marcell Coetzee. Stander played for the National team Coetzee did not. Coetzee is the better player IMO but Stander means much more the Ireland than Coetzee or any other import who doesn't play for the national team ever would.

 

[unrated]

Faletau has too low Stamina to be a Lions starting 8, not to mention the lack of composure.

 

[munstermuffin]

On CJ vs Faletau it more a case of what you prefer. Like neither playing poorly so it good. Stats can be deceiving as the 8 role can play in many many different ways.
But I do think CJ has put his body much much more on the line than Toby. Now there no issue on it as they different roles so I not saying there 1 better as it based on styles etc.

On CJ returning to SA @unrated I genuiely think if he wanted he'd make a Currie Cup team no problem. It more a case of he genuinely wants to retire and pay back his family on the farm.

 

[WaterboySA]

As a Saffer Ihave no problems with CJ coming back, and no hard feelings. Hope he gets to play for the Lions.