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CJ Stander to retire at the end of the season

munstermuffin said:
He was told by Springboks coaches he was too small and would only ever make it as a hooker.
These are facts that even Heyneke Meyer confirmed. A man that coached CJ from youths.
So no he was not turning back on anyone.
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That is nuts. CJ's stats are 6 foot 3 and 114Kgs (maybe he was what lighter at 20) compared to Vermuelen's 6 foot 4 and 117Kgs. Too small to play in the backrow for Boks.?
 
I think it was too short. You never know how big and small players really are and it does seem to vary quite a bit in different places. For example wikipedia has him at 6'1
 
Don't really get the Stander-Coetzee thing. (Arno Botha was a Munster squad player for a few years, he's not relevant to this discussion)

Stander offered more and contributed far more to his province before you even start thinking about the Ireland team. Lived here since 2013 and was a significant figure in Munster for most of that time. On the other hand Coetzee spend most of his time on the treatment table. Not a dig at him but his time at Ulster just doesn't really compare to Stander's impact on Munster from the perspective of someone who supports neither team.

The whole argument really doesn't hold much weight when you look at other imports, in Leinster by far the most beloved import is Isa Nacewa and in Ulster it's Ruan Pienaar, grand total of zero Ireland caps between them. Both departed with similar levels of discussion and fanfare. It's got less to do with Ireland/not Ireland and much more to do with the fact that one played over three times more on this island than the other.
 
MikeTheNative said:
I think it was too short. You never know how big and small players really are and it does seem to vary quite a bit in different places. For example wikipedia has him at 6'1
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Ah misread it as 1.91m. Yeh suppose 6'1 is on the shorter side for an International 8, even by the standards in SA. Still Falateu is 6'2 IIRC, if 6'3 is minimum for an international 8.

If he was going to be a on the fringes, Ireland wanted him and he wanted it, I don't see a problem with it. Good luck to him and his retirement.
 
The_Blindside said:
Ah misread it as 1.91m. Yeh suppose 6'1 is on the shorter side for an International 8, even by the standards in SA. Still Falateu is 6'2 IIRC, if 6'3 is minimum for an international 8.

If he was going to be a on the fringes, Ireland wanted him and he wanted it, I don't see a problem with it. Good luck to him and his retirement.
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As I said that was all South African mentality in deciding that. Told him if he wanted to stay pro he should convert to hooker.

His father even made a joke about it around time he made his debut.
 
munstermuffin said:
Loves to finish beating the enemy.
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Awkward Krieger GIF by Archer
 
munstermuffin said:
He was told by Springboks coaches he was too small and would only ever make it as a hooker.
These are facts that even Heyneke Meyer confirmed. A man that coached CJ from youths.
So no he was not turning back on anyone.
Click to expand...

It was the opinion of one coach/coaching group, and at that time, HM was mostly focused on size, and eventually it did bit him in the ass. But under Rassie and Allister Coetzee, the focus of size diminished, and many players smaller in size have made it to the springbok camp. For Example: Kwagga Smith, Cheslin Kolbe & Marco Van Staden.

2 of them are flankers, and plays they same position as Stander, and both of them are more than 10kg's lighter than CJ. Also CJ is weighing a lot more now than he did when he was at the Bulls, so he did exactly what his coaches told him, and that was to bulk up and get bigger. I don't see how their remarks was that of a negative message, as they encouraged him to do this in order to advance his career, and he perhaps took it as a negative remark, yet he went on to bulk up and get bigger anyway.

Many players are told what they need to do if they have aspirations of becoming a springbok. CJ wasn't an isolated incident. And many players got the message that they need to get bigger, It was said to Beast, Victor Matfield, Malcolm Marx, hell, even to Cheslin Kolbe. And they all made the necessary adjustments, and now they are all WORLD CUP WINNERS.

It's what you do with critique that seperates you from the best...
 
Maybe but he was told convert to hooker too. As you say each to their own but CJ in my eyes is no money chaser
 
munstermuffin said:
Maybe but he was told convert to hooker too. As you say each to their own but CJ in my eyes is no money chaser
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Many players are told to make a move to other positions, and with great effect usually, Beast from no. 8 to prop, Pierre Spies from winger to no. 8 (also told by Heyneke Meyer), Bryan Habana from scrumhalf to winger, Jesse Kriel from fullback to Centre... The list goes on and on...

There is a lot of examples to dignify the remarks CJ got from the Springbok camp, and there was certainly an interest in him otherwise he would have been in the Bok camp. It wasn't to tell him off, or to discourage him, he was the one who took it that way, and looked for an easier out...
 
TRF_heineken said:
Many players are told to make a move to other positions, and with great effect usually, Beast from no. 8 to prop, Pierre Spies from winger to no. 8 (also told by Heyneke Meyer), Bryan Habana from scrumhalf to winger, Jesse Kriel from fullback to Centre... The list goes on and on...

There is a lot of examples to dignify the remarks CJ got from the Springbok camp, and there was certainly an interest in him otherwise he would have been in the Bok camp. It wasn't to tell him off, or to discourage him, he was the one who took it that way, and looked for an easier out...
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Well he didn't do too badly for himself. Has had hugely successful career and international career
 
TRF_heineken said:
Many players are told to make a move to other positions, and with great effect usually, Beast from no. 8 to prop, Pierre Spies from winger to no. 8 (also told by Heyneke Meyer), Bryan Habana from scrumhalf to winger, Jesse Kriel from fullback to Centre... The list goes on and on...

There is a lot of examples to dignify the remarks CJ got from the Springbok camp, and there was certainly an interest in him otherwise he would have been in the Bok camp. It wasn't to tell him off, or to discourage him, he was the one who took it that way, and looked for an easier out...
Click to expand...
Yes, leaving your club where you're starting to get established and in the eyes of national coaches and moving abroad to start over again with no English, no relationships with coaches and no guarantee of success is definitely the 'easier out' than just changing position.
 

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