Could two different All-Blacks reach the semi-finals?

[Chistera]

Read in a Rugby World article that New-Zealand could have two separate line-ups capable of reaching the semis. I tend to agree. And if you didn't do an All Blacks A and an All Blacks B but rather two different balanced squads, I would fancy these two squads reaching the final. Thoughts?

 

[smartcooky]

Read in a Rugby World article that New-Zealand could have two separate line-ups capable of reaching the semis. I tend to agree. And if you didn't do an All Blacks A and an All Blacks B but rather two different balanced squads, I would fancy these two squads reaching the final. Thoughts?

With this current squad, I doubt it

Could the 2005 grand-slam squad have done it? Possibly. They thumped Wales 41-3 and then Ireland 45-7 a week later with two entirely different starting XV's and only five players common to both matches on the bench.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Read in a Rugby World article that New-Zealand could have two separate line-ups capable of reaching the semis. I tend to agree. And if you didn't do an All Blacks A and an All Blacks B but rather two different balanced squads, I would fancy these two squads reaching the final. Thoughts?

I see no reason why two balanced squads couldn't make the final, particularly if there were no injuries.

1 Woodcock
2 Mealamu
3 Franks
4 Retallick
5 Broadhurst
6 Messam
7 Cane
8 Read
9 Smith
10 Cruden
11 Piutau
12 Williams
13 Fekitoa
14 Naholo
15 Dagg

1 Crockett
2 Coles
3 Faumuina
4 Romano
5 Whitelock
6 Kaino
7 McCaw
8 Vito
9 Perenara
10 Carter
11 Savea
12 Nonu
13 Smith
14 Naholo
15 Smith

 

[smartcooky]

I see no reason why two balanced squads couldn't make the final, particularly if there were no injuries.

1 Woodcock
2 Mealamu
3 Franks
4 Retallick
5 Broadhurst
6 Messam
7 Cane
8 Read
9 Smith
10 Cruden
11 Piutau
12 Williams
13 Fekitoa
14 Naholo
15 Dagg

1 Crockett
2 Coles
3 Faumuina
4 Romano
5 Whitelock
6 Kaino
7 McCaw
8 Vito
9 Perenara
10 Carter
11 Savea
12 Nonu
13 Smith
14 Naholo
15 Smith

Which one is Waisake's cuzzy then!!?

ETA: oops, Joseva played for Fiji.

 

[Jaguares]

No. Springboks, Wallabies, England and Ireland can beat the New Zealand A easily

 

[Kiwiwomble]

"Easily" might be a stretch...

Names not in either of those teams Barrett, Osbourne, Manu, Kerr Barlow , skudder, slade, sopanga...

 

[Peat]

I see no reason why two balanced squads couldn't make the final, particularly if there were no injuries.

Objection y'honour, those aren't squads, they have no subs benches!

Which isn't entirely facetious. The game is very much a 23 man affair now, and the attrition rate is high enough that saying "No injuries" just isn't realistic. Don't get me wrong, those are two pretty scary fifteens, but I don't think we should be judging on fifteens now.

 

[Shaggy]

Objection y'honour, those aren't squads, they have no subs benches!

Which isn't entirely facetious. The game is very much a 23 man affair now, and the attrition rate is high enough that saying "No injuries" just isn't realistic. Don't get me wrong, those are two pretty scary fifteens, but I don't think we should be judging on fifteens now.

Quite right, just watch the injuries mount up in the real thing, and see how many players they end up using.

It's a pretty contrived exercise that can't be proven anyway

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Alrighty then, make me type out full squads

1 Woodcock
2 Mealamu
3 Franks
4 Retallick
5 Broadhurst
6 Messam
7 Cane
8 Read
9 Smith
10 Cruden
11 Piutau
12 Williams
13 Fekitoa
14 Naholo
15 Dagg

16 Elliot
17 Moody
18 Goodes
19 Thrush
20 Todd
21 Kerr-Barlow
22 Slade
23 Moala

24 Toomaga-Allen
25 Parsons
26 Fitzgerald
27 Squire
28 Pulu
29 Sopoaga
30 Ngatai
31 Lowe

1 Crockett
2 Coles
3 Faumuina
4 Romano
5 Whitelock
6 Kaino
7 McCaw
8 Vito
9 Perenara
10 Carter
11 Savea
12 Nonu
13 Smith
14 Milner-Skudder
15 Smith

16 Harris
17 Franks
18 Manu
19 Tuipulotu
20 Luatua
21 Ellis
22 Barrett
23 Gear

24 Tu'ungafasi
25 Coltman
26 Bird
27 Shields
28 Weber
29 Taylor
30 Saili
31 Jane

Obviously not as strong as one All Blacks squad of 31 players, but I'd give them just as much chance of taking home the cup as anyone else in the competition!

 

[Peat]

Obviously not as strong as one All Blacks squad of 31 players, but I'd give them just as much chance of taking home the cup as anyone else in the competition!

I'll admit to getting pretty shaky with some of the names, but I feel like there's a touch of weakness in some of the tight five reserves. Potential cup winners? Well, I guess I couldn't rule them out. Depends slightly how well teams have adapted to the lesson that the ABs will make teams run and run.

Thanks for doing complete squads btw.

 

[ncurd]

Honest question here with those two squads is squad two really NZ B or are both NZ A.5? I only ask as McCaw starts for B when I know full well come the world cup he'll be starting for A regardless of who is higher in skill.

I'll point out I know nothing about NZ rugby.

 

[nickdnz]

Honest question here with those two squads is squad two really NZ B or are both NZ A.5? I only ask as McCaw starts for B when I know full well come the world cup he'll be starting for A regardless of who is higher in skill.

I'll point out I know nothing about NZ rugby.

I believe they were two squads of roughly equal quality.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Alrighty then, make me type out full squads

1 Woodcock
2 Mealamu
3 Franks
4 Retallick
5 Broadhurst
6 Messam
7 Cane
8 Read
9 Smith
10 Cruden
11 Piutau
12 Williams
13 Fekitoa
14 Naholo
15 Dagg

16 Elliot
17 Moody
18 Goodes
19 Thrush
20 Todd
21 Kerr-Barlow
22 Slade
23 Moala

24 Toomaga-Allen
25 Parsons
26 Fitzgerald
27 Squire
28 Pulu
29 Sopoaga
30 Ngatai
31 Lowe

1 Crockett
2 Coles
3 Faumuina
4 Romano
5 Whitelock
6 Kaino
7 McCaw
8 Vito
9 Perenara
10 Carter
11 Savea
12 Nonu
13 Smith
14 Milner-Skudder
15 Smith

16 Harris
17 Franks
18 Manu
19 Tuipulotu
20 Luatua
21 Ellis
22 Barrett
23 Gear

24 Tu'ungafasi
25 Coltman
26 Bird
27 Shields
28 Weber
29 Taylor
30 Saili
31 Jane

Obviously not as strong as one All Blacks squad of 31 players, but I'd give them just as much chance of taking home the cup as anyone else in the competition!

Boom!...drop the mic

(i would have found room for Dixon, Osbourne, Manu, Hohneck et al )

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Boom!...drop the mic

(i would have found room for Dixon, Osbourne, Manu, Hohneck et al )

Yeah there are quite a few players who I forgot to include who would be there or thereabouts - one team looks quite a bit stronger than the other too, but I guess the point stands that we could quite realistically field two full squads who would at least compete with the rest of the teams around the world.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

It's an interesting question. Despite it's subjective nature I think the fact one can't dismiss it out of hand just goes to show the type of depth NZ possess, in the backs at least for a certainty. 'Could' is of course the operative word here. SA could field a couple of good packs but sadly I think if we try 2 full squads of backs it'll start looking a wee bit thin in the back three.

Not to derail the thread but I would like to visit, once RWC squads have been finalized, a world-injured XV and a world just-plain-not-selected XV. I suspect those might make for some pretty impressive reading as well.

 

[yaboyjj]

err, semis probably- the problems would obviously come on the bench- a few iffy players in there too- Mealamu, SBW, Messam etc are a bit shaky atm.
A few teams could play this game too though- a utopian world of no injuries greatly broadens the possibilities.
I can only say for England (Ireland, Australia, SA at a stretch could maybe do this too), but:

Marler, Youngs, Wilson, Attwood, Lawes, Wood, Robshaw, Morgan, Youngs, Ford, Yarde, Barritt, Tuilagi, May, Brown
Webber, Corbisiero, Brookes, Kruis, Itoje, Wigglesworth, Cipriani, Twelvetrees, Wade

Vunipola, Hartley, Cole, Launch, Parling, Haskell, Kvesic, Vunipola, Care, Farrell, Nowell, Burrell, Joseph, Watson, Foden
George, Mullen, Thomas, Slater, Ewers, Simpson, Slade, Rokoduguni

with a fair amount of room to spare... I'd venture to say that's better quality in depth in the forwards than NZ actually (at least in front row/Lock).

 

[Kiwi_]

Short answer, yep. Potentially final as well. Let's just get it right with one team though. Selecting Dagg won't get us there how ever.

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err, semis probably- the problems would obviously come on the bench- a few iffy players in there too- Mealamu, SBW, Messam etc are a bit shaky atm.
A few teams could play this game too though- a utopian world of no injuries greatly broadens this possibility.
I can only say for England, but:

Marler, Youngs, Wilson, Attwood, Lawes, Wood, Robshaw, Morgan, Youngs, Ford, Yarde, Barrett, Tuilagi, May, Brown
Webber, Corbisiero, Brookes, Kruis, Itoje, Wigglesworth, Cipriani, twelvetrees, Wade

Vunipola, Hartley, Cole, Launch, Parling, Haskell, Kvesic, Vunipola, Care, Farrell, Nowell, Burrell, Joseph, Roko, Foden
George, Mullen, Thomas, Slater, Ewers, Simpson, Slade, Watson

with a fair amount of room to spare... I'd venture to say that's better quality in depth in the forwards than NZ actually.

Kevy, SBW and Messam are still better than 95% of any other teams players. "Shakey" for AB standard.

 

[yaboyjj]

Short answer, yep. Potentially final as well. Let's just get it right with one team though. Selecting Dagg won't get us there how ever.

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Kevy, SBW and Messam are still better than 95% of any other teams players. "Shakey" for AB standard.

Messam- yeah maybe, SBW and Mealamu have looked pretty average this year though- not least against Samoa (OK Kevin in underperforming Blues team/SBW got poor service etc).
Not much love for A Savea in either 31's then?!

 

[Kiwi_]

Messam- yeah maybe, SBW and Mealamu have looked pretty average this year though- not least against Samoa (OK Kevin in underperforming Blues team/SBW got poor service etc)

SBW had a good first half of the season with Ngatai, he fell off towards the end, but the Chiefs were pretty thrown together with a lot of injuries and losing Cruden really stuffed them up in the backline.

I'm not his biggest fan, but I can understand why he fell off. Still an outstanding defender and has a killer offload. I would rather Fekitoa be selected before him any day though, not being bias either.

Has a great ability to draw defenders as well and free up space for the off-load. With a bit of work, him and Nonu could definitely work.

 

[Sonic Kiwi]

No. Springboks, Wallabies, England and Ireland can beat the New Zealand A easily

Unfortunately for me you're right Conrad and past world cups have proven that.

The AB's front row are my major concern and if past RWC's are anything to go by and ball retention and defense relying primarily on penalty goals with relatively small score margins then I'd say no.

The thing about RWC's is that it's not like other tournaments ie RC's, 6N's etc etc, it's about consistency over a grueling few weeks similar and akin to test series prior to professionalism but harder esp when it comes down to knockout games depending on a must wins scenario.

If all countries had to field an A and B team against each-other then I'm fairly confident that NZ would probably come out on top but that's a hypothetical guess.

Actually Conrad, I agree apart from when you said easily