[COVID-19] General Discussion

[Leonormous Boozer]

this is all a joke isn't it...NZ manufactures almost nothing itself apart from beer and diary products...import/export is still going and has been even during the strictest lockdowns, slowed down but I thought it was fairy well proven the virus could only survive on surfaces for a certain time and but the time products have been packaged, shipped and distributed...theyre all good

our boarder closures are 90% about people...not the materials needed for the country to keep going

Throw the UK a solid 5hr flight from anywhere else and have them immediately adapt to no road freight and they'd be all good too, anyone would... Apples and oranges. Do you think thousands of truck drivers driving all through Europe is not aiding the spread? Not a chance they aren't.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Throw the UK a solid 5hr flight from anywhere else and have them immediately adapt to no road freight and they'd be all good too, anyone would... Apples and oranges. Do you think thousands of truck drivers driving all through Europe is not aiding the spread? Not a chance they aren't.

but that's not exactly what they are saying, theyre talking about NZ and Aus being self sufficient….which we aren't

surely its a case of getting creative, one driver puts it on the boat and another drives it off at the other end, that's what has to happen with our freight, put in a cargo ship and someone else deals with it when it get here, most of this seems to have been just dumped in the "too hard basket"

 

[Yulia]

If you ever go to Northern Italy most of the gardens are veg patches and unlike in Ireland and the UK you don't get hedges you get lines of fruit trees. Poland is just one big Potato, Cabbage and Beetroot farm.

True! And there are also a lot of fruit trees in Poland as well (especially apple trees - famous "Polish apples" for example)

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

but that's not exactly what they are saying, theyre talking about NZ and Aus being self sufficient….which we aren't

surely its a case of getting creative, one driver puts it on the boat and another drives it off at the other end, that's what has to happen with our freight, put in a cargo ship and someone else deals with it when it get here, most of this seems to have been just dumped in the "too hard basket"

Self sufficiency was mentioned on the boards as a real reason why a European country can't close borders like Australia and NZ have, obviously it's more nuanced than that though.

What you're suggesting is an extra loading and unloading of cargo on either side of the channel and/or the Irish Sea rather than lorry drivers bringing their cargo from a to B and back again with only a ferry journey in between. It's less of a "too hard basket" and more an impossible one, or at least one which requires multiple governments and private corporations committing to a lot of construction at ports, acquiring more ships and lorries and then breaking international treaties and denying free movement to individuals. (You can drive 3500 from Oslo to Lisbon with only a drivers license if you're from a Schengen country normally)

Having seen what has happened in NZ there's no doubt that a lot of governments worldwide would copy them if feasible. There were opportunities to do so, we had two week rolling averages of less than 70cases during the summer for example, if zero covid was a possible goal and proportionate to the measures that would have been required it would have been achieved but NZ and Aus have unique advantages and weren't hit by the virus as badly and subsequently dealt with it far better as a result.

This is only one of many reasons it wouldn't work in Europe too. Even our national health emergency team who have been extremely conservative and not really taken economic or social issues into account when giving their recommended measures have said that zero covid isn't realistic here and we've recently put covid hotels and very heavy fines for breaking isolation rules in place at their request.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Having seen what has happened in NZ there's no doubt that a lot of governments worldwide would copy them if feasible. There were opportunities to do so, we had two week rolling averages of less than 70cases during the summer for example, if zero covid was a possible goal and proportionate to the measures that would have been required it would have been achieved but NZ and Aus have unique advantages and weren't hit by the virus as badly and subsequently dealt with it far better as a result.

I wont talk too much about the rest as im sure you know more than I, but keeping in mind there is free movement between NZ and Aus and that was stopped, hell, we had free movement between states in Aus stopped for a long time...sovereign nations surely have the right to protect their borders in extreme circumstances, and in the case of the UK...which is no longer in Europe and has a natural border...it does come across a bit like its just too hard

this bit though, Victoria during its second wave got to 700+ cases a day before it started to decline, and that was coming from zero cased for a long time, so you don't need to wait for the numbers to drop before to implement measures...the measures are what drops the number of new cases

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I wont talk too much about the rest as im sure you know more than I, but keeping in mind there is free movement between NZ and Aus and that was stopped, hell, we had free movement between states in Aus stopped for a long time...sovereign nations surely have the right to protect their borders in extreme circumstances, and in the case of the UK...which is no longer in Europe and has a natural border...it does come across a bit like its just too hard

this bit though, Victoria during its second wave got to 700+ cases a day before it started to decline, and that was coming from zero cased for a long time, so you don't need to wait for the numbers to drop before to implement measures...the measures are what drops the number of new cases

I know that, strict measures got us to those numbers, I was more saying that the extra steps required for zero covid are unfeasible here.

 

[McTallshort]

Self sufficiency was mentioned on the boards as a real reason why a European country can't close borders like Australia and NZ have, obviously it's more nuanced than that though.

What you're suggesting is an extra loading and unloading of cargo on either side of the channel and/or the Irish Sea rather than lorry drivers bringing their cargo from a to B and back again with only a ferry journey in between. It's less of a "too hard basket" and more an impossible one, or at least one which requires multiple governments and private corporations committing to a lot of construction at ports, acquiring more ships and lorries and then breaking international treaties and denying free movement to individuals. (You can drive 3500 from Oslo to Lisbon with only a drivers license if you're from a Schengen country normally)

Having seen what has happened in NZ there's no doubt that a lot of governments worldwide would copy them if feasible. There were opportunities to do so, we had two week rolling averages of less than 70cases during the summer for example, if zero covid was a possible goal and proportionate to the measures that would have been required it would have been achieved but NZ and Aus have unique advantages and weren't hit by the virus as badly and subsequently dealt with it far better as a result.

This is only one of many reasons it wouldn't work in Europe too. Even our national health emergency team who have been extremely conservative and not really taken economic or social issues into account when giving their recommended measures have said that zero covid isn't realistic here and we've recently put covid hotels and very heavy fines for breaking isolation rules in place at their request.

Actually most freight that goes from Ireland to the UK or UK to mainland Europe goes unaccompanied. Its dropped off at a ferry port, shunted on and off the ferry and collected at the other end.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Actually most freight that goes from Ireland to the UK or UK to mainland Europe goes unaccompanied. Its dropped off at a ferry port, shunted on and off the ferry and collected at the other end.

Well there ya go, didn't know that. Assumed at the start of the year with all those video clips at customs and the long queues that it was the other way around.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Yeh it's how those Vietnamese migrants who died so horribly in that freight over a year ago got transported from Europe to UK.

 

[McTallshort]

Well there ya go, didn't know that. Assumed at the start of the year with all those video clips at customs and the long queues that it was the other way around.

There are a lot of accompanying drivers on a day to day basis but even when you saw those long queues last yeah 80% of freight was still going between France and the UK. It doesn't help a transport manager if he has a driver and vehicle tied up on a ferry. Cheaper to get a carrier on the other side to collect from the port and deliver.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Covid: Oxford jab offers less S Africa variant protection

Developers say they are likely to have a modified version of the jab by autumn to combat the variant.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Al Bangor]

Wuhan residents remember coronavirus 'whistleblower' doctor a year after his death

A year after his death from COVID-19, residents in the Chinese city of Wuhan say they remain grateful to the "whistleblower" doctor who first sounded the alarm about the outbreak before it received official recognition.

www.reuters.com

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Covid: South Africa halts AstraZeneca vaccine rollout over new variant

A study of the vaccine's efficacy against the South Africa variant shows "disappointing" results.

www.bbc.co.uk

Not ideal

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Covid: South Africa halts AstraZeneca vaccine rollout over new variant

A study of the vaccine's efficacy against the South Africa variant shows "disappointing" results.

www.bbc.co.uk

Not ideal

Pretty much a certainty then that the Lions tour will at least be played behind closed doors then, if it does happen in SA.

 

[McTallshort]

Covid: South Africa halts AstraZeneca vaccine rollout over new variant

A study of the vaccine's efficacy against the South Africa variant shows "disappointing" results.

www.bbc.co.uk

Not ideal

Need to make sure we stay on top of that strain spreading. There were reports of people bypassing the travel ban from South Africa. If people have done this then they need to be prosecuted.

 

[Reiser99]

Need to make sure we stay on top of that strain spreading. There were reports of people bypassing the travel ban from South Africa. If people have done this then they need to be prosecuted.

Would have helped if the was a decent travel ban in place before cases started to appear.

 

[McTallshort]

Would have helped if the was a decent travel ban in place before cases started to appear.

There was a ban from South Africa but it was bypassed. If someone has done that then its down on them and they should be prosecuted.

 

[Reiser99]

There was a ban from South Africa but it was bypassed. If someone has done that then its down on them and they should be prosecuted.

Ok so will ignore the government not putting it in place before cases were detected here and still haven't got their hotel isolation program working properly. Don't get me wrong, those who got round it should be prosecuted, but like almost everything about their response to the pandemic, the government dragged its heels and acted too late.

 

[McTallshort]

Ok so will ignore the government not putting it in place before cases were detected here and still haven't got their hotel isolation program working properly. Don't get me wrong, those who got round it should be prosecuted, but like almost everything about their response to the pandemic, the government dragged its heels and acted too late.

Didn't say that did I.

But if you travelled from SA to the UK via another country then you should be prosecuted. If you did something similar from the UK to another country that had a UK travel ban then you should be prosecuted.

Governments and individuals should equally be held accountable for their actions.

 

[Reiser99]

Didn't say that did I.

But if you travelled from SA to the UK via another country then you should be prosecuted. If you did something similar from the UK to another country that had a UK travel ban then you should be prosecuted.

Governments and individuals should equally be held accountable for their actions.

Fair enough.

I'm just worried the success of the vaccine rollout will cloud people's judgement of how the government handled this pandemic, because overall it's been a shitshow. They should not be able to hide from their mistakes.