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[COVID-19] General Discussion

I heard on the news last night that it's been exactly two years since the first case of Covid-19 was diagnosed here in southern California. Two years and still going strong...unfortunately. :(

Have you managed get your 3 free N95 masks?
 

Denmark is the known home of this Omicron sub-variant and has been competently run. They are pushing ahead with a removal of restrictions so clearly aren't too concerned. Their per capita fatality rate is currently less than 75% of Scotland's, so initial signs are that the Omicron sub-variant is no worse than Omicron itself in terms of lethality.
 
I've read from some not very reliable sources that diahorrea is a symptom of Omicron. Would running to the loo like Usain Bolt for 6 straight weeks be a possible symptom does anyone know anecdotally? I've, uh, a friend who wants to know.
 
Have read that diarrhoea, nausea and (weirdly) lower back pain are all symptoms of Omicron
Yes to all of those - except that it's not that weird.

Muscle ache - often reported as back pain, is pretty common for anything sending the immune system on high alert.
As soon as you start bringing the GI tract into play, then low back pain is not uncommon
 
i kind of get it, im sure they have gone too far sensationalising it but they showing people there are repercussions for actions, like not giving a new liver to an alcoholic, we know that COVID and seriously affect the heart
that's a pretty mature way of looking at it. I think that broadcasting all the repercussions of not getting the jab would be a good thing. I didn't even think of what you pointed out so thanks fo that.
 
i kind of get it, im sure they have gone too far sensationalising it but they showing people there are repercussions for actions, like not giving a new liver to an alcoholic, we know that COVID and seriously affect the heart
I mean they're not even nearly the same thing but hey ho.

It's pretty ******* sadistic imo
 
I mean they're not even nearly the same thing but hey ho.

It's pretty ******* sadistic imo
It's the concept of denying a vital transplant to someone who is doing everything in their power to make the transplant successful and worthwhile and potentially letting them die to take a punt on someone who is showing a wilful disregard for basic medical interventions who might then take horse worming pills or ingest bleach and thereby destroy their new organ. I think it's the correct call but I'm not sure it needs media attention.
 
It's the concept of denying a vital transplant to someone who is doing everything in their power to make the transplant successful and worthwhile and potentially letting them die to take a punt on someone who is showing a wilful disregard for basic medical interventions who might then take horse worming pills or ingest bleach and thereby destroy their new organ. I think it's the correct call but I'm not sure it needs media attention.
OK let's not give any healthcare to fat people then.

Or if you've ever had a speeding charge or anything else that may be slightly dangerous. It's a very weak moral argument if you're not willing to go the full distance and only give organ transplants to the epitome of both health and safe lifestyles
 
OK let's not give any healthcare to fat people then.

Or if you've ever had a speeding charge or anything else that may be slightly dangerous. It's a very weak moral argument if you're not willing to go the full distance and only give organ transplants to the epitome of both health and safe lifestyles
Investigating an individual's culpability in their BMI or in a specific traffic incident would take time and cost money. Seeing that someone is a
practising alcoholic or has declined the most basic of medical interventions during a pandemic and concluding there are patients with a higher chance of making a success of a transplant does not.
 
Sorry, but this sort of thing happens all th time in medicine, however much reductio as absurdium you want to go with it.
If you've got 1 heart for 5 patients, it goes to the greatest chance of success. Whether that's the best tissue match, or the best likelihood of surviving / rehabbing post surgery.

Obese people already get refused a lot of medical care because it's not worth the risk.

It's yet to lead to your slippery slope argument though.
 
Sorry, but this sort of thing happens all th time in medicine, however much reductio as absurdium you want to go with it.
If you've got 1 heart for 5 patients, it goes to the greatest chance of success. Whether that's the best tissue match, or the best likelihood of surviving / rehabbing post surgery.

Obese people already get refused a lot of medical care because it's not worth the risk.

It's yet to lead to your slippery slope argument though.
I'd say that refusing a transplant for someone who is almost certainly not going to die from Covid is pretty far down said slope.
 
OK let's not give any healthcare to fat people then.

Or if you've ever had a speeding charge or anything else that may be slightly dangerous. It's a very weak moral argument if you're not willing to go the full distance and only give organ transplants to the epitome of both health and safe lifestyles
It's quite simple there is not enough organs to go around. It would be great if there were and maybe one day soon we will get to the point where we can grow organs specifically for people relatively cheaply. However, not supply does not meet demand and so the people in charge of choosing who gets an organ have to make very difficult decisions. Decisions they don't want to have to make, but do. They have decide who will make the best use of this organ. Now yes you can't completely investigate a person's life, but they do have information about patients and they have to make the best decision they can.

If you have patients who are vaccinated waiting for an organ and a patient who isn't, then in terms of who is looking after their health the most, the evidence only points one way.
 
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It's quite simple there is not enough organs to go around. It would be great if there were and maybe one day soon we will get to the point where we can grow organs specifically for people relatively cheaply. However, not supply does not meet demand and so the people in charge of choosing who gets an organ have to make very difficult decisions. Decisions they don't want to have to make, but do. They have decide who will make the best use of this organ. Now yes you can't completely investigate a person's life, but they do have information about patients and they have to make the best decision they can.

If you have patients who are vaccinated waiting for an organ and a patient who isn't, then in terms of who is looking after their health the most, the evidence only points one way.
My argument isnt that is has an impact, but is so small that it isn't morally justifiable to make a decision based on when it is likely outweighed by lots of other factors.

Of you can sit with that ethically then fine but I really can't.
 
My argument isnt that is has an impact, but is so small that it isn't morally justifiable to make a decision based on when it is likely outweighed by lots of other factors.

Of you can sit with that ethically then fine but I really can't.
TBH I can sit with it. As I said they aren't making this decision because they want to or want to put anti-vaxxers in their place. They are deciding who has the best chance of survival from getting the transplant and who will most likely put it too good use. As a doctor in the US said, the immunosuppressants needed to ensure an organ isn't rejected means your immune system is compromised. Even common colds can be deadly to people with a weak immune system, so could covid. If having the vaccine gives more chance of protecting against serious illness from covid, then it makes sense that someone who will be on immunosuppressants should get it.

Also it's not like they are rejecting him because of hospital policy and then the heart will just sit there. There will be a list and people on that list will die before getting a heart. While in his case not having the vaccine may be why he's rejected from being put on the list, it also doesn't mean they aren't others who would benefit from the heart more.
 

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