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Every Time Ref

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Using saliva is permitted though. Most of the players used saliva, but was busy chewing gum or something else and that was the cause for the fines. Every team has a designated person that shines the ball for them to try and get as much as possible out of the ball for them within the rules of the game. Sure these guys overstepped in using other things such as gum or something else, whether it was on purpose or not, but you can't put them in the same bracket as the sandpaper trio.

Reason being:

1. There was a deliberate scheme by the Captain, vice-captain and the culprit (Bancroft) to conspire and do what they did with them knowing that it's beyond the scope and boundaries of the ICC Rules and Regulations.

2. They did it in such a manner that they wanted to hide what they are doing, and had they not been caught on camera, they would have gotten away with it.

3. Their team-mates, well most of them, didn't know what they were up to, neither did their administrators and selectors.

4. The fact the CA went to such a length after the incident, made it clear that it was a much bigger issue than the other incidents.

To make the ball rough on one side is a tough thing to do, and their plan was to get it to reverse, something their opposition wasn't able to do in that test either, they failed with the bat and tried to save face with the ball. It was a very tough series, and they got their asses handed to them.

They were so consumed with winning at all cost, that they felt that cheating would be okay, even if they get caught.

Now cooky, in the criminal justice system, we would call that Premeditation. And that usually warrants the most extreme penalties.
I don’t think it was any more premeditated than the others, I think all the ones Cooky listed were equally premeditate, every team has a strategy in this area. The difference is extremity of the offence, I’ll give you that. But despite the extremity, I don’t think they deserve as much crap as they’re getting to be honest.
 

Old Hooker

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We do like a bit of pantomime booing and hissing over here and this was an open goal. I mean sandpaper, Australian captain in tears, we’re just not going to let that go. I see it more as p*ss taking and don’t mind too much provided it doesn’t cross the, sometimes fine, line into nasty vitriol.

Smith will cop it a bit. Partly because he was the captain and partly because we recognise him as a top player. It didn’t seem to trouble him too much yesterday and if anyone thinks the Aussie fans would let something like that go they need their heads examining.
 

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1. There was a deliberate scheme by the Captain, vice-captain and the culprit (Bancroft) to conspire and do what they did with them knowing that it's beyond the scope and boundaries of the ICC Rules and Regulations.
You can't be naive enough to believe that the other tamperers were "sole actors" and didn't do what they did without the full knowledge of their leadership.

2. They did it in such a manner that they wanted to hide what they are doing, and had they not been caught on camera, they would have gotten away with it.
So ALL the other tamperers didn't try to conceal what they were doing? They didn't mind if they were caught? Seriously?


3. Their team-mates, well most of them, didn't know what they were up to, neither did their administrators and selectors.
That would apply to all the other tamperers too

4. The fact the CA went to such a length after the incident, made it clear that it was a much bigger issue than the other incidents.
Good on CA for doing that. Its a shame the other national cricket organizations didn't just own up and take care of it like CA did, instead of; protesting by refusing to take the field (Pakistan), whip up a national fervour against the accusers (India), claim racism by the umpires (Pakistan), do nothing when the knew wholesale ball tampering was going on, and then failed to take action a couple of years later when they were ratted on by a team member (England 2005 Ashes)

To make the ball rough on one side is a tough thing to do, and their plan was to get it to reverse, something their opposition wasn't able to do in that test either, they failed with the bat and tried to save face with the ball. It was a very tough series, and they got their asses handed to them.

They were so consumed with winning at all cost, that they felt that cheating would be okay, even if they get caught.
This is no different from any other team

Now cooky, in the criminal justice system, we would call that Premeditation. And that usually warrants the most extreme penalties.
So you don't think any of the other teams planned to ball tamper... you think it "just happened"? Really?
 

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You can't be naive enough to believe that the other tamperers were "sole actors" and didn't do what they did without the full knowledge of their leadership.
No, That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that in some cases the players didn't know that what they are doing, are a breach of the rules. Therefore it wasn't a deliberate scheme.

So ALL the other tamperers didn't try to conceal what they were doing? They didn't mind if they were caught? Seriously?
Take Faf du Plessis as an example. He did it twice, and on both occasions he appealed the ruling, and in the one instance he even got a lesser sentence after the appeal.

In this case it wasn't a matter of contention to conceal, but rather that the act was against the rules. Which he then acknowledged. Under protest.


That would apply to all the other tamperers too
Again true, but as stated above, in some cases the act wasn't deemed an offense by the player that did the "ball tampering" to some extent.

Good on CA for doing that. Its a shame the other national cricket organizations didn't just own up and take care of it like CA did, instead of; protesting by refusing to take the field (Pakistan), whip up a national fervour against the accusers (India), claim racism by the umpires (Pakistan), do nothing when the knew wholesale ball tampering was going on, and then failed to take action a couple of years later when they were ratted on by a team member (England 2005 Ashes)
I agree that what CA did the right thing. But don't brush every offender or team with the same comb. South Africa for example also have a very intense process to handle such incidents. Take the Hansie Cronje saga, and most recently the local match-fixing scandal where 2 Protea players have been banned for life from cricket.



This is no different from any other team
within the ethical parameters.

So you don't think any of the other teams planned to ball tamper... you think it "just happened"? Really?
Again, that's not what I'm saying. Take the Saliva issue. You are allowed to use your spit to polish the ball. but it's now clear that you shouldn't have something else in your mouth which will affect the amount of salive being produced, or the ball itself.

What is an interesting thing to note, is that after Du Plessis' second incident, the ICC started to look at the harsher punishments for ball tampering. Not only that, they launched an investigation into their own rulings, in order to give more clarity on certain issues with regard to ball tampering.
 

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As long as we’re talking about this we aren’t talking about yet another Steve Smith Ashes tom and England letting Australia off the hook again...
 

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I don’t think it was any more premeditated than the others, I think all the ones Cooky listed were equally premeditate, every team has a strategy in this area. The difference is extremity of the offence, I’ll give you that. But despite the extremity, I don’t think they deserve as much crap as they’re getting to be honest.
Nor I, but hey, Steve Smith has answered them in the best possible fashion, by shoving it up their collective dates with his Sword of Willow - 144 and 142 is a great return by any standard, from any cricket match let alone a Test Match, let alone an Ashes Test Match and that is a big "shut the **** up" to the Barmy Army who were somewhat less boorish for the second one.
 

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England managing to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
I think it's time to put Ali out to pasture, as he can't make the runs or take wickets any more.
Not sure what the County scene is like for spinners, but surely there has to be someone out there.
 

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We've been producing spinning tracks at Taunton for a couple of seasons now as such Jack Leech is actually quite accomplished even away from home. But England seam determined as with most Somerset players to not play them under any circumstances.
 

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My dear old thing, there was a well known English cricket commentator who originated a phrase to describe what we saw this morning... Calypso Collapso!
 

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Day 5 on a spinning track against an accomplished spinner. Was always a tall ask.

The real questions of this match are Day 1 122-8 to 284 all out. How do you let the last two wickets score 57% of the runs. Day 4 just complete inept ability to produce the merest of chances in the field it was terrible to watch.
 

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Is there anything more frustrating than watching Eng play cricket?

Feeble batting once again.

The definition of an idiot is someone who keeps doing the same thing expecting different outcomes. When we select our best player as captain its an immutable rule that their form plummets off a cliff edge. It's happening to Root, who frankly looks like a little boy lost in a man's world. He's a top class player, but had no captaincy experience to draw on and it shows.

Archer's brilliant. mind.
 

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Shocking performance. I swear some of these players have some kind of colour blindness, where they can't see red balls as clearly as white.
Archer has looked incredible though. Most exciting bowler I've seen for many a year.
 

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They're still getting my hopes up.
Bit worried that Barstow isolating a one-way innings with that strike rate, a quick 40 and out doesn't really help (IMO), it's patience we need. Or am I being unfair and Aux really are bowling that loosely, and those balls are all there to be taken advantage of?
 

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Still a long way to go, but the longer this partnership goes on the more pressure there is on Australia. England have stepped up this innings, but they need to make this the norm.
 

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239 for 4 at lunch.
This partnership worth 79.

Still worried the strike rate may be a little reckless, but Barstow seems to have calmed down an dug in.
 

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Bloody Bairstow, absolutely no need for that at all. No rush to score.
 

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Gotta feel for Stokes, the lower order are just throwing away their wickets.
 

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Under 20 now.

It's the hope that kills you
 
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