Doping in Rugby

[goodNumber10]

I know this gets brought up from time to time but Quinlans article is an interesting read:

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rug...re-in-rugby-i-d-have-known-about-it-1.2031781

Ronan O'Gara:
http://balls.ie/rugby/163603-ronan-o-gara-drugs-paul-kimmage/

Both prompted by the Paul Kimmage & Laurent Benezech articles:
http://www.independent.ie/sport/rug...e-all-we-are-hearing-is-silence-30796745.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ru...oss-admits-realise-s-issue-addressing-it.html

Interesting stuff, not much detail in who what why, doesn't seem to be tones of proof, but you'd have to be pretty naive to say it never happens.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Looks interesting on a quick scan through. I'll have to have a better look when I have time.

I know there have been a few doping allegations in SA in the schools where I'd argue doping would make more of a difference and where I feel coaches/peers can have more of an influence on young rugby players who would be more vulnerable to pressure. Maybe I am being naive but my feeling is that the game is pretty clean up top though even if there is more to be lost or maybe because of it.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Looks interesting on a quick scan through. I'll have to have a better look when I have time.

I know there have been a few doping allegations in SA in the schools where I'd argue doping would make more of a difference and where I feel coaches/peers can have more of an influence on young rugby players who would be more vulnerable to pressure. Maybe I am being naive but my feeling is that the game is pretty clean up top though even if there is more to be lost or maybe because of it.

it's not pretty clean during the off-season though. Some of the substances used has a short lifespan, and a short time being picked up in the body. I know for a fact that one of the Big SA rugby unions, use what they call the "aqua-roid" to boost their academy players. Some of the kids I have seen has just unnaturally grown in a very short period of time. And according to them these "aqua-roids" can only be picked up through tests if the test was done within 6 days after the substance was consumed.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Don't have any fundamental problems with doping. I know I'm in the tiniest of minorities with that though.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Don't have any fundamental problems with doping. I know I'm in the tiniest of minorities with that though.

I also don't have a problem with it. In some way it's levelling the playing fields, and makes the skills more of a focus than just physical appearance.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Don't have any fundamental problems with doping. I know I'm in the tiniest of minorities with that though.

I find it to be a very interesting argument, I'd be of the opinion that doping in sports like athletics, cycling and swimming is wrong because these are sports that test the extreme limits of the human body in one specific aspect. In rugby however I think there is some room, I'm not educated enough on the topic to know how I'd like it regulated though.

 

[j-dawg]

Ive said before, its rampant. I know guys playing premiership rugby who at least took it before they hit big. Its also been strongly implied the academies knew about it in some cases

 

[ratsapprentice]

I'd like it regulated though.

Absolutely.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I find it to be a very interesting argument, I'd be of the opinion that doping in sports like athletics, cycling and swimming is wrong because these are sports that test the extreme limits of the human body in one specific aspect. In rugby however I think there is some room, I'm not educated enough on the topic to know how I'd like it regulated though.

true, and in some ways the doping could actually have a negative effect on a player. for instance if you have a scrawny but very fast winger, if he were to unnaturally bulk up, he'd loose speed and acceleration and could become less effective as a winger.

 

[BRSTLDRGN]

Ive said before, its rampant. I know guys playing premiership rugby who at least took it before they hit big. Its also been strongly implied the academies knew about it in some cases

On that note can I just request that this thread remain free of specific allegations. Discussion is fine but can we stop short of naming individuals/clubs etc.

Thanks

 

[goodNumber10]

Don't have any fundamental problems with doping. I know I'm in the tiniest of minorities with that though.

what's your argument for allowing it Rats?

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I am against doping in that it puts the guy who decides not too (whether for reasons of health, pinciples whatever) at a disadvantage and that's about the long and short of it for me. I mean, where do you draw the line if you start opening it up? Things just become a lot less black and white and more difficult to manage than it is ATM and it's difficult enough to manage as is.

 

[j-dawg]

On that note can I just request that this thread remain free of specific allegations. Discussion is fine but can we stop short of naming individuals/clubs etc.

Thanks

Hence why i stopped short of naming these guys

 

[ratsapprentice]

what's your argument for allowing it Rats?

What's the reasoning behind blanket banning a load of chemically unrelated substances?

I think there has to be a very strong specific reason to ban something, and the current ban on practically anything that has an impact on athletic performance is ridiculously arbitrary.
The only legitimate reasons to ban a substance that I accept are health concerns and a slightly more arbitrary "social concerns".

Health concerns speak for themselves - but a substance should be shown to have significant health risks attached to it before you ban it on those grounds.

"Social concerns" - would be for things like Testosterone in women's sports. It is unreasonable to expect all women to take substances which dramatically enlarge the clitoris and elicit an increase in male characteristics.
Some women will be fine to do that, but it is unfair to set the bar for athletic performance with that sort of price.

At the moment we have a situation that is directly comparable to the situation we have with medical and recreational drugs.
Alcohol, Tobacco and a whole host of over the counter medical drugs are perfectly legal - whereas seemingly all other recreational drugs are banned regardless of the peer-reviewed medical consensus on their safety.
You could kill yourself far quicker with a box full of paracetamol than you could a bottle of anabolic steroids.

 

[munstermuffin]

Lads I not saying there no doping but if a lad took a spoon of sugar in his coffee Kimmage would say he's an addict of every drug. The man tried to question if Simon Best had to retire as drugs were related to his heart issue and the same about Marcus Horan. Also said Henry's recent scare was in line with someones body not accepting drugs correctly. All very low digs in my opinion.

 

[ratsapprentice]

+1^

People that are against doping...

Let me ask you this: Would you be upset if Jean De Villiers used illegal substances to halve the recovery time of his current injury, or if they ensured that he could return to the sport without hindrance?
Or if it meant that Alex Corbisiero could continue to play the sport without continual enforced absences?

 

[BRSTLDRGN]

Lads I not saying there no doping but if a lad took a spoon of sugar in his coffee Kimmage would say he's an addict of every drug. The man tried to question if Simon Best had to retire as drugs were related to his heart issue and the same about Marcus Horan. Also said Henry's recent scare was in line with someones body not accepting drugs correctly. All very low digs in my opinion.

How has he not been pinged for libel?

 

[munstermuffin]

How has he not been pinged for libel?

Because he's a grade A tosser. Nobody wastes there time chasing him much as there's alot of laws and escapes. He has it in for french since Tour De France issues and questions every academy there etc. Now I not a fan of way French rugny goes and way money has crept in but I think they're academies are superb and they put in work. The man is bitter and I may be wrong as I unsure of the other guy but is he the French guy that was hell bent on getting Armstrong?
Like just because it was rampant in cycling and that's exposed they think now it's in most sports

 

[Mikel92]

Maybe I'm being too conservative, but to me there's something timeless and positive about good old fashion graft, building up your skills the conventional way, allowing your drive and commitment to inhibit you to get out of bed at 6 am and go practise with a rugby ball. That is how performances should be enhanced. I'm not sure what that would say about our sport if we opened the welcome door to artificially improving your output on the field. Is that not unfair on people who don't want to start doping and prefer to do things properly?

I just think we have to be cognizant of the message we're trying to send here. There are very impressionable minds growing up playing the sport. Yes there are deviants even when you stigmatize anything in society, but if they get wind that doping is welcomed ... pretty sure they'll start to fiddle around with drugs that aren't safe. They'll have this false perception that they're protected under the laws of sport, hence bulletproof. It's all very well saying "but it'll be regulated" but they are adolescents. They have no concept of what that means or the nuisances of it. And please don't underestimate that argument. Not sure about your respective countries, but a few stories have been done here in New Zealand of teenage boys being more and more pressured to start doping and get the awesome body through drugs.

I'm not a drug or medical expert by any stretch, it's all just my opinion. And I don't deny that doping could have positive effects on the human body. But it is not a simple argument at all in my view. Even clinical studies on a bit of paper can tell you so much. Keep the floodgates closed.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Tell me again how PED's mean you don't have to work hard.