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ELV Meeting News

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Apr 3 2009, 11:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
They're not binning every ELV but they're not accepting every ELV either. These are just reccomendations. I believe so far the only rule that is odds on to be dumped will be the maul collapsing rule. Whether the free-kick ELV will be dumped is a matter of speculation.[/b]

well you'd think it would be since it hasn't even been trialled up here.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Count of Devonshire @ Mar 31 2009, 09:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
One must at least be pleased to see the maul back. Hopefully the Italians can re-salvage some pride in the 6N next year, plus the two games against Argentina this summer suddenly become a much greater test for England. It's just great for those nations who've not got the history or coaching set up to necessarily work out great team moves and develop skills between the backs. If we want the sport to grow beyond the Empire then the maul must remain. Even between the bigger nations, it prevents the game from becoming too one-dimensional.[/b]


you're an ass

have some respect

argentina have been a very fine side for years now...


with hernandez being one of the most skillfull players in the modern game
 
As John Cena would say: The! Troll! Is! Here!

So you're saying that you don't want to see the maul reintroduced or not? :huh:

Have another read of what the good Count is saying (a very good point by the way) and have a think because you do realise that Argentina's traditional strength has been in the forwards and that the scrum and especially in the maul have been its speciality?
 
Is a lot of this not down to referees, maybe if they had an idea of what they were doing...you know...common f***ing sense?
Also, could it not be argued that aimless kicking is timewasting, and there should be some sort of reprimand for doing it...or maybe if it gets daft the referee could give a penalty to the team who did it last...or something, I don't know...just a way of actively discouraging it.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dundeesmiffy @ Apr 4 2009, 04:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Is a lot of this not down to referees, maybe if they had an idea of what they were doing...you know...common f***ing sense?
Also, could it not be argued that aimless kicking is timewasting, and there should be some sort of reprimand for doing it...or maybe if it gets daft the referee could give a penalty to the team who did it last...or something, I don't know...just a way of actively discouraging it.[/b]

agree that refs could show the game in a game common clarity that the view can relate to would make rugby an easier game to loyally watch.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Apr 4 2009, 04:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
As John Cena would say: The! Troll! Is! Here!

So you're saying that you don't want to see the maul reintroduced or not? :huh:[/b]

I read it, and thought that you are obviously forgetting the fantastic rugby that argentina have played, RUNNING RUGBY... did you see the two games in the world cup where they beat the french... those were superb examples of there running game..


With regards to the maul...!

I think its a boring part of the game, like players being allowed up to 90 seconds to take a kick at goal.

Maybe if the Rules didn't have to make the exception of all players in front of the ball in a maul are not offside when in any other play they would be offside is a contradiction that grates me a little.

Maybe if the ball had to remain at the front of the maul and it could be contested by the defending team so that they could wrestle for the ball then it might interest me more.

But i think the common logic for including the maul is that it ties the forwards to a center allowing space for the outside players to run.

That is a commendable idea...!


But watching a side setting up a catch and drive from the twenty too or worse half way line while the talented runners are screaming for the ball because of an overlap they wish to exploit bores me...!
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GimleyUK @ Apr 4 2009, 12:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Apr 4 2009, 04:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As John Cena would say: The! Troll! Is! Here!

So you're saying that you don't want to see the maul reintroduced or not? :huh:[/b]

I read it, and thought that you are obviously forgetting the fantastic rugby that argentina have played, RUNNING RUGBY... did you see the two games in the world cup where they beat the french... those were superb examples of there running game..


With regards to the maul...!

I think its a boring part of the game, like players being allowed up to 90 seconds to take a kick at goal.

Maybe if the Rules didn't have to make the exception of all players in front of the ball in a maul are not offside when in any other play they would be offside is a contradiction that grates me a little.

Maybe if the ball had to remain at the front of the maul and it could be contested by the defending team so that they could wrestle for the ball then it might interest me more.

But i think the common logic for including the maul is that it ties the forwards to a center allowing space for the outside players to run.

That is a commendable idea...!


But watching a side setting up a catch and drive from the twenty too or worse half way line while the talented runners are screaming for the ball because of an overlap they wish to exploit bores me...!
[/b][/quote]

You didn't read it because you were jumping on the Count and Gorged him for making a valid point that the ELV was taking away what was an integral part of Argentina's game. Use all the capitals you want, the bottom line is that I know that Argentina can play running rugby but also know that they have one of the heaviest packs around and love nothing more than a good old rolling maul. You however seem to have forgotten that or did you miss not only the World Cup quarter final against Scotland but the games Argentina played last Summer against Scotland and Italy? If you didn't, I'll fill you in on the fine details: heavy forward play was the name of the game with a smattering of up and unders.

Also furthermore, the Count's point is even more valid when you look at how forward orientated the likes of Italy and Georgia are in their play. They can play a running game too but like Argentina it is all built off of the fact that their pack is supreme and rumble the ball up field and provide superb quick ball for the backs.

The bottom line? Don't jump on people like that for making a valid point.

I myself like the maul. If done properly and executed well it can be a fascinating part of the game. I think Scotland's famous "marching of the frogs" 40 meter maul and try against France back in 2006(??) was absolutely brilliant. It is an integral part of the game and as such, attempts to depower it through something as reckless as allowing teams to collapse it was silly to be honest.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Apr 4 2009, 05:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
I myself like the maul.[/b]

i definatly disagree.

but i always disagree with you

Prestwick says:

199.jpg
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Apr 4 2009, 12:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Apr 3 2009, 11:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
They're not binning every ELV but they're not accepting every ELV either. These are just reccomendations. I believe so far the only rule that is odds on to be dumped will be the maul collapsing rule. Whether the free-kick ELV will be dumped is a matter of speculation.[/b]

well you'd think it would be since it hasn't even been trialled up here.
[/b][/quote]

Well it is being trialled in France by the Espoirs teams of Top14 down to Federale as far as I know.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Apr 4 2009, 10:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
They're not binning every ELV but they're not accepting every ELV either. These are just reccomendations. I believe so far the only rule that is odds on to be dumped will be the maul collapsing rule. Whether the free-kick ELV will be dumped is a matter of speculation.[/b]

This is generally what I meant when I said I'd come to accept that they wouldn't keep as many ELVs that I would like them to keep. The general feel I got from this thread was that most are against ELVs (or at least most of the ELVs). I'm saying I'd like to see most stay. The free-kick rule is actually one that I'd really like to keep, but I doubt that my wish will be granted int his instance.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flux @ Apr 4 2009, 04:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Apr 4 2009, 10:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
They're not binning every ELV but they're not accepting every ELV either. These are just reccomendations. I believe so far the only rule that is odds on to be dumped will be the maul collapsing rule. Whether the free-kick ELV will be dumped is a matter of speculation.[/b]

This is generally what I meant when I said I'd come to accept that they wouldn't keep as many ELVs that I would like them to keep. The general feel I got from this thread was that most are against ELVs (or at least most of the ELVs). I'm saying I'd like to see most stay. The free-kick rule is actually one that I'd really like to keep, but I doubt that my wish will be granted int his instance.

[/b][/quote]


I was surprised by Fitzpatrick view on the short arm ELV:


</h3><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
<h3>Fitzpatrick slams ELVs and Super 14
Sunday 5th April 2009
Adding his weight to the clamour for non-adoption of the ELVs, and particularly the ELVs currently only on trial in the Super 14, former All Black hooker Sean Fitzpatrick took aim at the tournament and the state of rugby in his native New Zealand on Sunday.



In a radio interview with New Zealand's Sunday Star-Times columnist, Fitzpatrick, the most-capped All Black with 92 tests, said he'd rather watch a Guinness Premiership or Heineken Cup game than Super 14.



"In terms of what I am seeing in Super 14 compared to the Premiership and Heineken Cup, it is quite clear one game is better than the other," he said.



"What's happening in Super 14 is lacking structure. The teams that are doing well, the Bulls and Chiefs, are the teams that are playing with structure. Unfortunately with the short-arm penalty, it encourages teams and players ... to cheat."



Super rugby has struggled to live up to its billing this year, with many matches played in front of half-empty stadia and TV ratings down. Some matches have been exciting, but most have been ruled by the whistle and low on points-scoring.



Fitzpatrick said he wasn't surprised and had a pop at the obsession with creating free-flowing play to bring fans in, which he reckons would eventually undermine the All Blacks' supremacy.



He had little complimentary to say, even about the exciting matches such as the 63-32 win by the Chiefs over the Blues a fortnight ago.



"(It) was probably the worst and most disappointing game of rugby I have seen. If you think that is great, free-flowing rugby to watch, we are obviously watching two different games. That's not what I see as a great game," he said.



"[The northern and southern hemisphere] need to get our heads together and decide what we want to watch. I am sure there is a compromise or middle road because 63-32 is not rugby we should be encouraging our younger players to play, because once we get to All Black rugby it doesn't wash.



"The ELVs and some coaches are encouraging our younger guys to play this helter skelter rugby which is fantastic at schoolboy and club level but against the big boys in international rugby it won't wash."

©2009 - 365 Media Group
Any reproduction, publication or redistribution of this material without the written agreement of 365 Media Group is strictly forbidden.[/b]

It looks like according to Villepreux that a compromise has beenproposed by the FFR, long harm penalty in case of off side and player delaying the release of the ball, short arm for the other faults at the breakdown.
 
Paging Ripper to the thread. I repeat, paging Ripper to the thread, we've got another All Black legend crapping on the ELVs and Super 14 to be exiled to the Italian Super 10....
 
Ah, modern Super 14 rugby;

Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick out on the full... Kick down the middle... Run the length for a try...Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick out on the full... Kick out on the full... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Run the length for a try... Score a try immediately off kickoff... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick out on the full... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Scrum... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick out on the full... Half time.

Wonderful... Rumour has it it's considered exciting just because the Kiwis boast they don't take drop goals. God knows what other reasons there could be.
 
I like the free-kick ruling, in my opinion games with no tries and score lines like 15 - 12 or 9 - 6 are ruining rugby for both the players and the fans, it's boring and I hope that particular ELV is kept or at least another one is brought into to play that has the same aim.

If we end up having more matches like the RWC07 final I will go on a murderous rampage.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dundeesmiffy @ Apr 7 2009, 05:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
I like the free-kick ruling, in my opinion games with no tries and score lines like 15 - 12 or 9 - 6 are ruining rugby for both the players and the fans, it's boring and I hope that particular ELV is kept or at least another one is brought into to play that has the same aim.

If we end up having more matches like the RWC07 final I will go on a murderous rampage.[/b]
ha ha ha

ill back you up...!
 
I'm not going to cast judgement over a rule I still haven't seen in action properly but I am going to say that we've seen matches up here over the past two seasons with plenty of running and flowing rugby and no free-kick rule.

If you want to reverse the attitude which led to RWC 2007 (and not just the final, the likes of Argentina, Scotland and Wales were just as guilty for kicking tennis as England and South Africa) then you need guys like Gregor Townsend, Brian Smith and Rob Howlett, the guys who coach the backs and the guys who have the most influence to change attitudes here.

Increasing free-kicks won't stop the aerial ping-pong. A change in how players approach the game tactically and as a player will...
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Apr 7 2009, 12:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Ah, modern Super 14 rugby;

Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick out on the full... Kick down the middle... Run the length for a try...Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick out on the full... Kick out on the full... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Run the length for a try... Score a try immediately off kickoff... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick out on the full... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Scrum... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick out on the full... Half time.

Wonderful... Rumour has it it's considered exciting just because the Kiwis boast they don't take drop goals. God knows what other reasons there could be.[/b]

http://rugbydump.blogspot.com/2009/03/supe...ek-round-7.html

Go here. Be enlightened.
 
I wonder if Fitzpatrick was watching the 'helter skelter' rugby that was played in the deciding test for the 3Ns?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Apr 7 2009, 12:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Ah, modern Super 14 rugby;

Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick out on the full... Kick down the middle... Run the length for a try...Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick out on the full... Kick out on the full... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Run the length for a try... Score a try immediately off kickoff... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick out on the full... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Scrum... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick down the middle... Kick out on the full... Half time.

Wonderful... Rumour has it it's considered exciting just because the Kiwis boast they don't take drop goals. God knows what other reasons there could be.[/b]

You either have some sort of growth in your anus who gives you a weekly Super 14 feed, or the only game you watched this year in the competition involved the Bulls.
 
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