England 2023/24

[Rugbyfan564]

He or the RFU must think he will come back otherwise he could have just retired and If wanted or needed reverse that (So many sports people reverse international retirement decisions that nobody would care.)

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I think the vice captains were Genge, Lawes and Slade last time they were formally named - Slade to make a shock return and go straight into the armband?

I wouldn't want Genge as captain I don't think, OK as vice captain but not full on

 

[Geordie]

He or the RFU must think he will come back otherwise he could have just retired and If wanted or needed reverse that (So many sports people reverse international retirement decisions that nobody would care.)

You never know he might enjoy not having the burden of international rugby on him and retire after the 6n......although he might miss the money.

 

[Geordie]

Theres not many players who are definates at the moment...

Jamie George
Cole - If he doesnt retire
Itoje
Chessum fighting with Martin for the other lock spot?
Ford
Lawrence
Steward

Cant comment on Chessum or Martin (are they leaders) but the others dont strike me as Captains...even Itoje.

 

[Rugbyfan564]

Theres not many players who are definates at the moment...

Jamie George
Cole - If he doesnt retire
Itoje
Chessum fighting with Martin for the other lock spot?
Ford
Lawrence
Steward

Cant comment on Chessum or Martin (are they leaders) but the others dont strike me as Captains...even Itoje.

Ford does to me.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yeah, Ford is the one that I keep going back to - captained England a handful of times and did the same at Tigers too (I think?), natural leader/voice in the huddle etc. - partly depends whether they go with him or Smith at 10, though

They could go completely left field like when they named Ludlow captain during the Lions tour, but I can't think of any club captains who are in contention other than Ludlam

 

[BrokenWing]

I wouldn't want Genge as captain I don't think, OK as vice captain but not full on

I think he's one of those that no matter how good he may carry himself in the future, he goes into games with that previous reputation.

You can get five players say exactly the same thing in the same tone to a referee and get five different responses depending on previous repuation.

 

[Rugbyfan564]

Yeah, Ford is the one that I keep going back to - captained England a handful of times and did the same at Tigers too (I think?), natural leader/voice in the huddle etc. - partly depends whether they go with him or Smith at 10, though

They could go completely left field like when they named Ludlow captain during the Lions tour, but I can't think of any club captains who are in contention other than Ludlam

Ludlam is off to France. I can't imagine someone Soon to be ineligible getting it.

 

[Arcturus]

I heard a rumour pre-RWC that his young family was the target of repeated vile threats, but never considered it more than a rumour, perhaps there is substance.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Ludlam is off to France. I can't imagine someone Soon to be ineligible getting it.

Yeah, that did cross my mind - but if Farrell is only (for now, at least) stepping back for the 6N then Ludlam could well still be there, especially as we're losing so much experience with the injuries and retirements we've had over the last few months

Depends whether they view it as a stopgap until Farrell is back or the first step in a long career there

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

To echo what has already been said, I wanted Farrell out of the side but it's easy to forget these people are humans and it can't be nice for him or his family to see stories like "Farrell most hated player in world rugby" every international window. Wishing him and his family all the best.

As for 10 and captain replacement, I'm inclined to say Ford seems the obvious choice on both counts. This will also force Borthwicks hand away from a "Farrell must be on the pitch" mentality. This should hopefully lead to the development of Smith or A.N.Other as a serious 10 option and finally get us developing a proper 12. If he chooses Lawrence at 13, there aren't exactly any 12's who would work as a kicking option so we may be forced into a more running style of play.

 

[Geordie]

To echo what has already been said, I wanted Farrell out of the side but it's easy to forget these people are humans and it can't be nice for him or his family to see stories like "Farrell most hated player in world rugby" every international window. Wishing him and his family all the best.

As for 10 and captain replacement, I'm inclined to say Ford seems the obvious choice on both counts. This will also force Borthwicks hand away from a "Farrell must be on the pitch" mentality. This should hopefully lead to the development of Smith or A.N.Other as a serious 10 option and finally get us developing a proper 12. If he chooses Lawrence at 13, there aren't exactly any 12's who would work as a kicking option so we may be forced into a more running style of play.

Ojomoh or Seb Atkinson for me...at 12.

 

[Rugbyfan564]

Yeah, that did cross my mind - but if Farrell is only (for now, at least) stepping back for the 6N then Ludlam could well still be there, especially as we're losing so much experience with the injuries and retirements we've had over the last few months

Depends whether they view it as a stopgap until Farrell is back or the first step in a long career there

Even as a short term someone who is putting money ahead of international duty is not really a suitable representative.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Lawes was going about maybe coming back in an injury crisis. Maybe that will extend to a captaincy crisis.

The RFU like Itoje.

What I read in a Times interview with Lawes is that he's totally finished with England regardless of injury situation but would consider the Lions in the unlikely event they asked him.

Firstly, hope Farrell and his family will be OK. Robust criticism of Farrell the player is fine, anything else really isn't. He's taken a lot of public abuse since the red plus I've always said that Eng have piled too much on him (and probably allowed him to self-inflict pressure too) with all the on and off field roles he's been asked to perform. Any threats to his wellbeing or involving his family are doubly disgusting.

One door closes, another opens, perhaps permanently (Faz will be 33 in Sep).

At 10 it's Smith or Ford. I'd be inclined to roll the dice with Smith but Ford with a bit more licence to play would be fine too, but not really the long term future - turns 31 during the tournament.

Skipper:

Wild card - Spencer's captaining Bath and is in form. Mitchell went OK in France but unconvinced he's the long term answer.

Otherwise lay down the gauntlet to Itoje. Might backfire, but might be brilliant motivation for him (and help keep him in England).

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Depends whether they view it as a stopgap until Farrell is back or the first step in a long career there

That has to be up for grabs and for the replacement 10 / skipper to make convincing cases over the course of 5 matches.

 

[LIONSxv]

It will be Itoje as captain (although according to Eddie he has no captaincy material) he did captain under 20s albeit a long time ago when they won the WC

Ford will start at 10, as Smith at 10 with no Farrell at 12 would blow Borthwicks mind

 

[AlRums]

Farrell to miss Six Nations to prioritise mental wellbeing

England captain Owen Farrell makes himself unavailable for the 2024 Six Nations "in order to prioritise his and his family's mental wellbeing".

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Rugbyfan564]

What I read in a Times interview with Lawes is that he's totally finished with England regardless of injury situation but would consider the Lions in the unlikely event they asked him.

Firstly, hope Farrell and his family will be OK. Robust criticism of Farrell the player is fine, anything else really isn't. He's taken a lot of public abuse since the red plus I've always said that Eng have piled too much on him (and probably allowed him to self-inflict pressure too) with all the on and off field roles he's been asked to perform. Any threats to his wellbeing or involving his family are doubly disgusting.

One door closes, another opens, perhaps permanently (Faz will be 33 in Sep).

At 10 it's Smith or Ford. I'd be inclined to roll the dice with Smith but Ford with a bit more licence to play would be fine too, but not really the long term future - turns 31 during the tournament.

Skipper:

Wild card - Spencer's captaining Bath and is in form. Mitchell went OK in France but unconvinced he's the long term answer.

Otherwise lay down the gauntlet to Itoje. Might backfire, but might be brilliant motivation for him (and help keep him in England).

Spencer would be very controversial with his support for XL Bully dogs. Not sure having him as captain would do much for Rugby's image.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I'm guessing there is a massive rebuild ahead which in theory will slow down getting new players in as SB (and most coaches to be fair) won't won't massive change all in one go.

So from the last real team (vs SA) to where I think SB will end up:

There are 6 not available for whatever reason from that game which leaves 17 player left. Hopefully a few of them (like Daly and Billy) get dumped as well.

1 Marler - retired
2 George
3 Cole
4 Itoje
5 Martin
6 Lawes - retired
7 Curry - injured
8 Earl
9 Mitchell
10 Farrell - resting
11 Daly -
12 Tuilagi
13 marchant - France
14 May - retired
15 Steward

16 Dan
17 Genge
18 Sinckler
19 Chessum
20 Billy
21 Care
22 Ford
23 Lawrence

I'm guessing Genge, Ford and Lawrence come straight into the starting 15. Then backrow is an issue now. I think we'll see underhill and Pearson as a combo, or possibly underhill to 6, earl to 7 and Willis in at 8.

No idea if Arendull would be a shoe in for the wing spot but hoping it's not Malins or another dull winger. The bench will be very weak with experience after we raid it.

Looking at the above, I was hoping for a bit more fresh wood but as SB is already forced into 6 changes I can't see him making any more on top of that.

 

[Crash Hamster]

Let's hope Borthwick doesn't paint himself into a corner by announcing as captain someone who isn't a certain starter this time.

I didn't like Farrell as either 10 or captain*, but people should be able to sort out the difference between being unhappy about the performances and hating the man. No-one should be forced to stand down because people have been obnoxious to his family.

I'm honestly more hopeful that England will now play a more exciting, heads-up style of rugby now, certainly relative to the sterile one-dimensional pap we've been serving up recently.

* EDIT: and certainly not as a 12 [shudder]