England 2025/26

[Vieux Talonneur]

Stuart at TH.

Chessum back in the row and Lawes at 6.

 

[ChicagoKid]

I know he’s been a valued contributor to the Rose, but how is George still the first choice? Seeing him in a hypothetical Bok-esque squad is hilarious considering his opposite number is Marx.

I genuinely thought George would retire after RWC23, similar to Bongi and Dane Coles.

But not only is he still the first choice hooker, he’s the stand in captain. Crazy.

What happened to Theo Dan? He impressed me when he first debuted.

 

[BrokenWing]

I don't think the rest have instilled confidence in their lineout throwing.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Who tf has ever been impressed by Dan? Other than Borthwick?
His lineout is bad and his defence is even worse - he can be electric ball in hand, sure, but that's very low down the list of needs for that position

 

[ChicagoKid]

Who tf has ever been impressed by Dan? Other than Borthwick?
His lineout is bad and his defence is even worse - he can be electric ball in hand, sure, but that's very low down the list of needs for that position

So who would you suggest? Or is the plan to role out the corpses of LCD & George down in Oz?

 

[Ddanno]

Who tf has ever been impressed by Dan? Other than Borthwick?
His lineout is bad and his defence is even worse - he can be electric ball in hand, sure, but that's very low down the list of needs for that position

Dan to 12!

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

So who would you suggest? Or is the plan to role out the corpses of LCD & George down in Oz?

Borthwick doesn’t seem to trust anyone else, so pretty much that.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

So who would you suggest? Or is the plan to role out the corpses of LCD & George down in Oz?

Should be Langdon but lack of faith from the coaches and inconveniently timed injuries when he'd otherwise likely have gotten a shot have probably killed those chances

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Saw that Ilone has now qualified as a Doctor, a great effort alongside his rugby.

There’s a lot to like about the way he plays. If he’s concentrating on rugby for a while and can stay fit, could he force his way in to the reckoning?

 

[Geordie]

Saw that Ilone has now qualified as a Doctor, a great effort alongside his rugby.

There’s a lot to like about the way he plays. If he’s concentrating on rugby for a while and can stay fit, could he force his way in to the reckoning?

Hes another that got that bloody injury just before he was going to get a game. When he made that big powerhouse run in to two defenders and smashed them...sadly did more damage to himself. The concern is that this second spell being out is the same shoulder i believe.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Definitely has the skills to play internationally, just awkward that he's yet another player whose first choice position is 7 but he can play across the whole backrow - ideally he'd be a first choice 8

Hopefully he's got really into weights and HGH during his injury break/final studies and comes back a stone heavier and wanting to nail down the 8 shirt at Tigers (though really he looked good at 8 at his current weight, which is still 5-12lbs heavier than Wainwright depending which source you use for AW's weight)

 

[Geordie]

I know he’s been a valued contributor to the Rose, but how is George still the first choice? Seeing him in a hypothetical Bok-esque squad is hilarious considering his opposite number is Marx.

I genuinely thought George would retire after RWC23, similar to Bongi and Dane Coles.

But not only is he still the first choice hooker, he’s the stand in captain. Crazy.

What happened to Theo Dan? He impressed me when he first debuted.

As mentioned Borthwick simply hasnt even looked at other hookers.

Some i agree with such as Blamire whos strong around the park but cant hit a barn door with a lineout. Langdon has been so unfortunate with the timing of his little injuries. But others just havent been considered. I like Seb Blake, clearly the management dont. I think Tuipolotu and Craig Wright will be the next two the coaches will really invest in. But they're quite a bit of developing to be done so i think they've already made their decision to run with George and LCD for the World Cup with A.N. Other as back up and change it all post World Cup, hopefully when the manager goes aswell.

My frustration though is that whatever we think of Theo Dan, he WAS picked for the squad and yet i dont believe he got a single minute over the 3 games, which is ludicrous! Surely he should have been trialed v Fiji at the minimum!

 

[Geordie]

Definitely has the skills to play internationally, just awkward that he's yet another player whose first choice position is 7 but he can play across the whole backrow - ideally he'd be a first choice 8

Hopefully he's got really into weights and HGH during his injury break/final studies and comes back a stone heavier and wanting to nail down the 8 shirt at Tigers (though really he looked good at 8 at his current weight, which is still 5-12lbs heavier than Wainwright depending which source you use for AW's weight)

That would be brilliant. He really could be a very good option for 8

 

[ChicagoKid]

As mentioned Borthwick simply hasnt even looked at other hookers.

Some i agree with such as Blamire whos strong around the park but cant hit a barn door with a lineout. Langdon has been so unfortunate with the timing of his little injuries. But others just havent been considered. I like Seb Blake, clearly the management dont. I think Tuipolotu and Craig Wright will be the next two the coaches will really invest in. But they're quite a bit of developing to be done so i think they've already made their decision to run with George and LCD for the World Cup with A.N. Other as back up and change it all post World Cup, hopefully when the manager goes aswell.

My frustration though is that whatever we think of Theo Dan, he WAS picked for the squad and yet i dont believe he got a single minute over the 3 games, which is ludicrous! Surely he should have been trialed v Fiji at the minimum!

Hooker is a weird position internationally right now.

Marx is not only the Boks' best player, but he is also head and shoulders above the backup. Rassie has trialed several hookers, and none have stuck around for more than a few tests.

Codie Taylor is the same for the All Blacks. And Montoya for Argentina.

Interestingly enough, Ireland probably has the best hooker depth of any country.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I mentioned in one of the match threads the other week (think it was actually an Ireland game where their hooker was missing every throw) that it really feels like there's a big issue with lineout throwing in general in hookers atm - someone did mention it could be because of improvement to defensive lineout jumping causing increased pressure, which definitely could be having an impact, but some of the players just look terrible

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Definitely has the skills to play internationally, just awkward that he's yet another player whose first choice position is 7 but he can play across the whole backrow - ideally he'd be a first choice 8

Hopefully he's got really into weights and HGH during his injury break/final studies and comes back a stone heavier and wanting to nail down the 8 shirt at Tigers (though really he looked good at 8 at his current weight, which is still 5-12lbs heavier than Wainwright depending which source you use for AW's weight)

Virtually identical size to Pearson who’s another I think would likely be best suited to 8.

 

[Reiser99]

As mentioned Borthwick simply hasnt even looked at other hookers.

Some i agree with such as Blamire whos strong around the park but cant hit a barn door with a lineout. Langdon has been so unfortunate with the timing of his little injuries. But others just havent been considered. I like Seb Blake, clearly the management dont. I think Tuipolotu and Craig Wright will be the next two the coaches will really invest in. But they're quite a bit of developing to be done so i think they've already made their decision to run with George and LCD for the World Cup with A.N. Other as back up and change it all post World Cup, hopefully when the manager goes aswell.

My frustration though is that whatever we think of Theo Dan, he WAS picked for the squad and yet i dont believe he got a single minute over the 3 games, which is ludicrous! Surely he should have been trialed v Fiji at the minimum!

Dan also didn't play a single minute of the 6Ns. He clearly holds tackle bags well.

 

[ChicagoKid]

I mentioned in one of the match threads the other week (think it was actually an Ireland game where their hooker was missing every throw) that it really feels like there's a big issue with lineout throwing in general in hookers atm - someone did mention it could be because of improvement to defensive lineout jumping causing increased pressure, which definitely could be having an impact, but some of the players just look terrible

This seems to stem from the desire to achieve a mid-field ruck off of first phase. But with increased line speed, the only way to get that is by throwing a middle or back ball. Obviously, those are more difficult for the hooker.

Also feels like there are very, very few out-and-out lineout experts anymore. Who is getting picked these days because they are dominant at offensive lineouts, versus just defensive?

Lood De Jager is clearly in that camp, but can't stay healthy. Who else? Flament?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I mentioned in one of the match threads the other week (think it was actually an Ireland game where their hooker was missing every throw) that it really feels like there's a big issue with lineout throwing in general in hookers atm - someone did mention it could be because of improvement to defensive lineout jumping causing increased pressure, which definitely could be having an impact, but some of the players just look terrible

Maybe the not straight, no competition rule has led to an increase in contested throws?

 

[BrokenWing]

Maybe the not straight, no competition rule has led to an increase in contested throws?

Maybe it's just me, but I reckon the not straight, no competition rule has led to referees ignoring a lot of not straight when there is competition.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Ilione will most likely be focusing on 6/8 now (whatever Wainwright doesn't take)
Honestly, I reckon he could be England's answer for 6.

Carnduff moving to lock and Ilione to 6/8 would prob help England out depth-wise. (Well if both can stay fit)

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

As mentioned Borthwick simply hasnt even looked at other hookers.

Some i agree with such as Blamire whos strong around the park but cant hit a barn door with a lineout. Langdon has been so unfortunate with the timing of his little injuries. But others just havent been considered. I like Seb Blake, clearly the management dont. I think Tuipolotu and Craig Wright will be the next two the coaches will really invest in. But they're quite a bit of developing to be done so i think they've already made their decision to run with George and LCD for the World Cup with A.N. Other as back up and change it all post World Cup, hopefully when the manager goes aswell.

My frustration though is that whatever we think of Theo Dan, he WAS picked for the squad and yet i dont believe he got a single minute over the 3 games, which is ludicrous! Surely he should have been trialed v Fiji at the minimum!

Borthwick knows what he wants from his hookers, generally dressing up as a load of cells with formulas. What he wants from his players is another matter.

 

[Geordie]

Ilione will most likely be focusing on 6/8 now (whatever Wainwright doesn't take)
Honestly, I reckon he could be England's answer for 6.

Carnduff moving to lock and Ilione to 6/8 would prob help England out depth-wise. (Well if both can stay fit)

What's the crack with Carnduff? Is he just injury prone?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

What's the crack with Carnduff? Is he just injury prone?

IDK if I wouldn't say injury-prone; just unlucky to have two very serious injuries back to back

 

[mackerzz]

Hooker is a weird position internationally right now.

Marx is not only the Boks' best player, but he is also head and shoulders above the backup. Rassie has trialed several hookers, and none have stuck around for more than a few tests.

Codie Taylor is the same for the All Blacks. And Montoya for Argentina.

Interestingly enough, Ireland probably has the best hooker depth of any country.

I disagree with the Taylor comment. At least atm, Taylor is lucky to start. Should be Taukei’aho and Aumua